so im an up and coming knight in the Imperial Legion, I often visit Vivec in order to sell off armor of the necromancers and raiders i kill. The Ordinators there at first were a small nuisance, calling me a scum and casting a distrustful eye. As a Bachelor Knight i expect a certain degree of respect from these guards, but they do not give it, on top of that i have utmost disdain for those who use force to push religious beliefs. i really really really hate the Ordinators now, and id love nothing more than to strike a few of them down with my Katana. Now, killing without being attacked is very much against my set of rules, but if i were to say taunt one into attacking me by persuasion or wearing some armor of theres would i lose any disposition from my fellow imperials?? I know the Ordinators are employed by the Tribunal, im just wondering if they are in any type of fellowship with the Imperial Legion, i would hate to lose respect of the Legion.

As long as you don't break any Imperial Laws, I'm sure any member of the legion would forgive you for killing one of the occupied country's religious guard. You may consider selling your loot at in other towns, but if you're itching for a fight, and are far enough along to tackle an Ordinator, I say go ahead. But yes, you should only kill in defense, just view the taunting as a return of the same disrespect you were shown. Prolly a good idea to save, anyways. Unless you're playing Ironman style.

There won't be any adverse consequences to your killing Ordinators so long as you are careful to make sure they attack you first.
I wouldn't do it from a RP pov since the Imperial Legion wants good relations with the native authorities.

You could always try finishing the main quest. Unless, of course, that goes agaist your RPing.

If you are doing it from a RP perspective what I would do is taunt them into attacking you. Say you got in an arguement with one and they decided to attempt to kill you, and you kill them in self defence. Nothing wrong with that as a Knight.

If you bribe an NPC with 10 drakes over and over then usually for less than 300 drakes you will get a friend for life. This is much more in line with a knight.

Actually the higher you advance in the Legion, the less the Ordiantors will like you. If you want to knock a few off I think taunting would be acceptable. Just limit yourself to 1 per week or so and don't loot their corpses.

I'm leader of the Legion and I can still get Ordinators to treat me like a rock star. You're a knight. There are plenty of evil things that await you.

I think its because you must have a high personality and speachcraft skill? According to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Imperial_Legion the Ordinators (who are a part of the Temple faction) have negative relations with the Imperial Legion so the higher up you go, the more they hate you.

This is their starting disposition. You just have to bribe them a little more. Your reputationn affects this as well. However, I've been able to get anyone to 100 disposition with enough bribes.

if you are a very 'holy knight' and also in the cult, i would hesitate even to taunt them, as per what AQ said and also just because such a virtuous person would be expected to take the high road and not stoop to arguing and taunting them. but if you are only the technical definition of knight - lawful arm bearer vassal of the emperor, then give 'em hell.

let me edit this by saying, a Knight is a precise legal term, and doesn't have any moral value on its own. you could be moral, amoral, mean, nice, etc..... and as Salbeth said not every mem of a faction typifies every other mem. so if your character doesn't like them, and isn't particularly bashful or conscientious about killing, than i could see a member of the occupational force killing a local if they could do it without breaking the letter of the law....

EDIT again. that said, there is that quest for the legion that if you kill the lady to get her land, even without a bounty your captain isn't too pleased.....

Don't attack them unless they attack you. Knights do not taunt officers of the law. A Knight of the Imperial Legion is Lawful Good, and respects other officers of the Law. If you want to become more popular with them, do some quests for the Temple or raise their disposition with bribes, spells or speechcraft like a real virtuous man would.

An idea :lightbulb:
From things people say in the game Fort Frostmoth is supposed to be the worst posting in the Empire
So when you are ready to first go to Solstheim go on an Ordinator taunting and killing spree
Then you can RP that you became such an embaressment to the Legion that you were posted to Fort Frostmoth

I would expect the Imperial Legion to try to avoid murder, being as it's, you know, illegal and all. And I'd expect the Imperial Legion to want to not give the locals another reason to want them out of Morrowind, it's bad PR.

On the other hand, while it might not be behavior the Imperial Legion would encourage, I actually could imagine some of the more... hot-headed guards picking a fight with someone who angers them, especially if they happen to be drunk at the time. It must be remembered that just because a character is part of a faction doesn't mean that character will automatically exemplify all the ideals of that faction.



Bribing or using magic to influence people against their will are really not the first things that come to mind when I think of "virtuous man".

Now ignoring their insults and letting your actions speak for you on the other hand is the most virtuous thing that comes to mind (In other words, raise your reputaion through quests so everyone likes you more.) the problem is that Morrowind doesn't really encourage this, in fact, unless you have a high enough speechcraft skill to rely on admire, bribing or using charm spells if you can are the ONLY ways to complete certain quests, but it's never really necessary to get ordinators to like you.

Maybe not bribing, but I tend to roleplay Illusion magic like charms as being part of the Knight's good natured appeal rather than a devious and dishonest trick. It's tied to the Personality attribute after all. In my opinion there is a shred of virtue in any action that helps stay the hand of an enemy. A wealthy knight who stops ash monsters and villains and shares the wealth with the locals isn't exactly committing a dishonest or immoral act. It can be seen as diplomacy.

Of course I agree that great deeds should be the number one focus of any knight worth his salt, but the thing that's always separated the knights from the mercenaries and normal warriors is their personality and charisma.

In the Imperial legion knighthood goes with rank but you're basically a soldier IMO, so I don't feel bound by any knightly code when playing a member of the Legion
On the other hand acting in a way that would cause problems for your comrades isn't something a good soldier would do just because someone sayd something nasty to him

The last 2 ranks of the Legion grant membership into knightly orders, the last of which is Knight of the Imperial Dragon just like Oblivion. From that point you are no longer addressed as a soldier, the rest of the legion will address you as "Knight of the Imperial Dragon".

Yes, as I said its a honour granted because of rank, but you still have to serve as a grunt soldier first

There is only 1 Knight of the Imperial Dragon in each province. And as I said, everyone calls you "Knight of the Imperial Dragon" in voiceover greeting when you pass by any legion soldiers. http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=1535 will let you give orders to lower ranked people in any house or faction.

You say your character feels he deserves some kind of respect. Now, if it were imperial citizens i agree, but im sure you well know when it comes to Dunmer (in particular ordinators!) and courtesy towards outlanders...i'd be more expecting abuse myself. I would role-play my character just ignoring them and letting his actions speak louder than words. The imperials have enough trouble in Morrowind without killing the local religious guards.

That is true. It is said in the lore that if the Emperor ever got sick then the Legion would be recalled to the capital and the Commona Tong (Orvas Dren + Hlaalu) would take over Morrowind. It also says that Morrowind was not taken by force, it signed an agreement with the Empire so that is why the Great Houses still have power in Morrowind. So all of that infrastructure is still there and Barenziah & her son, the King, controls Mournhold. So it goes.

I think the point some people are making is that rank, even that of "Knight of the Imperial Dragon", does not imply or confer any type of moral value system on the individual. It merely means that through a combination of birth and service one has achieved said rank. So a Knight doesn't always have the (sp) connotation of "Holy Knight" or "Paladin". For example, think of Count Richleu in the classic Three Musketeers, which is one of the progenitors of modern fantasy and rpg's, the Count holds high rank in a politico-religous hierachy while at the same time is totally evil and corrupt.

Given that idea, then the player could decide his character would kill an Ordinator if it could be done in such a manner as had little or no political or in-game negatives. I think it simply comes down to the idea if the player would enjoy it, there is an arguable justification so he should do so.

Ugh, DnD alignments, the bane of depth and believable personalities.

Way to completely ignore the rest of my post, and my other one. The Imperial Legion soldier or an Imperial Knight in general would avoid senseless violence for diplomatic as well as moral reasons. If you wanna roleplay a character like that and really set restrictions on yourself, you've gotta be a good professional soldier.

speaking of ignoring post, i think mine got ignored just above, and i think it arguably leaves the option open to the player while still meeting the requirements of retaining one's rank, and even reputation if done properly. or at the very least one would have to imagine that even if the player's rep would be tarnished (in our imagination as there would be no consequence imposed by the game), they would still retain the rank and avoid any criminal penatly.

edit.. the issue would be up to the op. in original post s/he states 'killing without being attacked is very much against my rules" or similar quote.... now if the rules were merely a set of superficial rules of conduct that the player follows to maintain rank and avoid trouble, s/he could still be a pretty nasty, immoral individual. however, if that set of rules is from a more benevolent, religous value system, it does seem goading someone into combat and killing them would be an internal inconsistency.