i think this would be a good update but i wouldnt pay for just this it would have to be free

Bioware is a Canadian studio, actually.

You're probably thinking of Fable-developer Lionhead, which is in the UK.

I want the option to have better relationships with more characters, not just romantic relationships.

I want to be able to talk to the companions. The only one you get to ask questions of is Sydney. I think that is a shame. It seems natural that you would talk to them and maybe romantic relationships would develop from those. After all the player characters spend the most time with companions if you take them.

No. Not because I dislike romance, but because if it is done, the odds of it being horrible are high. That and the dialogue in the game is already lacking.

If done well, I'm all for it. I love romantic sub-plots in games. Sadly they are often a half-baked effort that leave a lot to be wished for.

My biggest beef with RPG romances is when the actual affair is ignored or becomes oblivious for the rest of the game after you've successfully romanced your partner. Dialogue with them is either lacking or makes no reference that they love each other. Your companions most often act as though nothing has happened at all, as if they hadn't even noticed. And the game world itself is often just as blind, offering no extra dialogues or options in relation to you and your romanced companion.

The only games I've played and that I can remember off the top of my head, that continued to reference and add little extras to the state of your romance, are Baldur's Gate 2, Bloodlines and Fallout 2 (I don't remember if KOTOR did as well?). NPC's would make unique comments every now and then, and you would have some extra dialogue choices from time to time involving your lover. In Fallout 2 you would even have options to use your "shotgun wed" partner for various quest outcomes and other situations

A romantic build-up is great. Having your little computer characters finally get together and declare their feelings for each other can be great as well. But if it changes nothing afterwards, then it just feels like another pointless side-quest to add a few minutes of extra game time :rolleyes:

I agree. Moreover, to make the romance properly and not horrible, the game would probably have to have a strong storyline with the romance firmly built into it, otherwise the romantic subplot will feel like something itched onto the whole and ultimately redundand. Mass Effect was quite ok, for a videogame, but I liked the romance in Max Payne 1&2 much better. Yes, different genre of course, but comparing Fallout 3 and Max Payne I find putting romance into Fallout inapropriate and doomed to be a limping unnecessary sublot without any meaning.

Dont you kind of with the girl in the vault, maybe thats something we will see in the new dlc Broken steal a way back into the vault to meet up with her again or maybe they final open the vault for good. cant remember the quest were most of thi sis kind of laid out for you think its trouble on the home front.

As an option, sure, more content is good. As a requirement for the story to progress, absolutely not, since most game romances are horrible.

On a related note, I would have liked to see you able to add a few more NPCs and then have them react to one another like in BALDUR'S GATE 2. In that game, some would clash, some would joke around, some would flirt. It made the game a lot more dynamic and each play-through more interesting because your NPCs reacted to other. With mods you can get several members in your group, but it's not as interesting when they don't talk amongst themselves.

You said it.

Baldur's Gate II falls into the trap that you mentioned. It's true that the romances continue on in the Throne of Bhaal expansion, but once you reach the end of the subplot in Shadows of Amn it's over for the rest of that game. Bloodlines didn't have romance, the closest Bloodlines came to that is Jeanette and VV manipulating you towards their own ends by using subduction. Fallout 2 has no romance period, unless you consider a Shotgun Wedding "romance". KotOR is probably the only game listed that might fit, and even then.

It's very difficult to design any subplot that spans an entire playtime for that character, especially in a sandbox game. A few modders did some interesting experiments with this in Morrowind, but the final products were far from perfect.

KOTOR did it well, Mass Effect did it better.

I kind of liked the one in KOTOR better, personally. Just because in that one I got the "love connection" from Bastilla by arguing with her and fighting at every turn. (Kind of a Han/Leia sort of romance.) Not sure if that was possibly in Mass Effect (though I did like some of the stuff in that one, as well.)

I do agree with the general sentiment, though - done right would be the key word. If it was some sort of amateurish thing just crammed in there because that's what people want - I'd just as soon not see it. If it didn't play an important role in the game, an actual "romance" would be sort of pointless. (Though hey, it's an "open-world" game - I could see a brief "fling" or something.)

I think a romance would be great...

Then when you get bored of him/her....

The next thing you get into their pants...

A grenade.




I'd be leaning towards the Vamprosttute.

Considering how much trouble Bethesda has with normal character development, I seriously doubt they could do a full blown romance right.

Depends. Ashley has more of that sort of thing, while Liara just has a different kind of chemistry.

i was actually thinking about this a week or two ago when i

... thought it would be cool if there would be a romantic thing with her

don't know if i'd like it to go as far as fable 2 did with the ability to have romance with anyone in the game.. wouldn't feel right in a FO game..

I might actually be remembering fragments from some of the mods I've played Baldur's Gate 2 with. It's been so long since I've played that game without a plethora of NPC mods and what-not, so you're probably right there.

In Bloodlines I agree there is no actual romance. I was more thinking of Heather, the girl you could make into your ghoul. Although not a real romance, it does sort of resemble an affectionate relationship. And you could (ab)use her to achieve several different goals, as well as have her aid you on her own from time to time. It wasn't just "Here's your new girlfiend to stand around and act like nothing happened" kind of thing.

Fallout 2 wasn't a romance either (Unless you find shotgun weddings romantic ), but it was essentially a relationship thing, in that he/she would follow you around and refer to you as a lover. It was sort of a romance sub-plot without the romance and build-up. Instead they focused on all the things the two of you could do for the remainder of the game. Which is what I miss the most about the real romance sub-plots in RPGs.

My characters seem to develop attractions on their own as I spin out their roleplay- though there aren't many good men in the Wasteland, that's for sure. Having it built into the game would probably feel limiting.

In the same way that having a game at all is limiting compared to the power of IMAGINATION? oo:

Omg, Halo 3 Cortana spazzes all over again! Noooo! :banghead:

Scripted dialogue choices only get you so far.

I'd say yes only so that my character could be cruel. Emotionally tourture the men who seek her heart. :goodjob:

But I'm playing Fallout 3 to get away from regular life. I wanna kill Muties, not get involved with people saying, "Let's meet by craterside supply at midnight!" kinda bullcrap.

I'm here to kill things, not get bogged down in a bunch of sappy chick flick crap. Get outta the way, (insert name here). I gotta kill stuff.

With such logic, we're better off with a plain wood block and imaginary friends.

Uh, dude... whatever. I just don't think a canned romance option would be anything but lame. YMMV.

The whole "character development" thing is at bit at odds with the "open world" philosophy of Bethesda, to be fair. Bioware has an easier time because they're dealing with a much more contained plot. (And I'm not going to get into how I don't actually think Bethesda's games are really any less linear than any other...)

Bethesda's problem, as I see it, is not so much that they're somehow inherently poor at writing character development, but that they don't go to that next step in the first place. Each character you encounter (and this applies to videogames in general, really) is the same at the beginning of the game (apart from higher levels and skills) as they are at the end of the game. This is antithesis to basic storytelling - a key feature of any "good" story is that the character learn something through the course of the narrative (or are significant in that they fail to learn anything.)

They go so far as to create some interesting characters with a bit of backstory, but they're generally painted in very broad strokes. (Like I've said before: "Hi there, here's some interesting expositional stuff about me. Okay, well nice meeting you - I'm not going to have anything more to say throughout the rest of the game, so you can pretty much just ignore me now.") There are few characters that offer you any further insights, or respond to how events are playing out in the world. (Defuse Megaton's bomb, and the worshippers still talk about how terrible it would be if someone were to defuse it, etc.)

Bioware's games (which are notable as all your supporting cast has a slew of backstory to dig into and lessons to learn,) are set up specifically to take advantage of that. There's a noticeable pattern in all of their games, consisting of doing a mission or two, and then returning to a "hub" area where further layers of the characters are revealed. Rinse and repeat. That's a little harder to do with an "open world" game like Bethesda makes. (If your character can go through a city and talk to everyone - all the work of implementing some development in the characters are going to be wasted if the player never goes back to see what's new.)

With the addition of player housing, there's now potential for something like that. If I'm going back to Tennpenny Tower or Megaton on a regular basis to restock and drop off my loot, then there's the potential to draw me back into a progressing narrative within that area.

Back to the topic at hand - Bethesda may not be terribly experienced at character development, but the potential for a romantic interest of any sort would be one tool to use to realize that.

(And again, yes - it would have to be done well, or it would come off as amateurish and immature.)