So In tes there aren't simply nine races. Ignoring things like snow elves, aylieds, sloads and other stuff we've never played before; the Races we have played aren't just one ethnic group. This thread isn't a suggestion but a question: would you like to play a giant sentient Tiger?

For starters there Many, many types of khajiit. A few are quadropedal (four legged. I'd assume we're not playing those, but feel free to disagree). There are huge khajiit geared towards combat, The average sized bipedal Khajiit for more agile characters, and one special breed of Khajiit that are small and very good with magic (think Cat-Yoda). There are breeds which are full cat, breeds that are very cat (think awkward legs from morrowind) breeds that are more humanoid (Normal shaped legs. Oblivion and skyrim Khajiit) and one breed that's almost indistinguishable from bosmer.

(breed is dictated not by your parents, but chosen by what phase of the two moons you're born under. The Khajiit that looks like a bosmer could totaly give birth to a khajiit that looks like a Gigantic tiger.)

The argonians have an unknown amount of variants. Their level of argonian-ness is dictated by how much tree sap they've drunk. (maybe all people have the capacity to become argonians? ) Anyhow, They create different racial tribes. Think of every lizard; Iguana, Bearded dragon, Thorny devil, chameleon, agama, blue tongue, komodo... even throw in a few amphibians and fish in their (angler argonians. Oh Aedra save us...) Along with some bird like argonians, snake like argonians (They still have legs though)... and so on. Whilst a lot of this would be cosmetic, there's still some features that would make gameplay differences. Some breeds are pretty big and might be unlike the frail argonians we're used to. Some natural features might be usable; A big mouth with sharp teeth could be deadly, natural poisons could be accumulated, Horns could be used, and spikes could discourage grappling (and probably make some body armour more awkward to wear)

Imperials are supposed to have two ethnic groups to them. No Idea on racial differences for that. Morrowind and Hammerfell have some differences between coastal/civilized people and wastelanders (but all morrowind males have the smokey voice that Jiub has and that is fact don't tell me otherwise nahnahnah can't read you). I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting.

Anyhow. Would you like to play as a giant cat, poison-factory toad man, Humanoid Velociraptor, Genuine ashlander or distinctly southern Imperial?

Brought that up in the Beyond Skyrim and other threads for quite a bit now. Yeah, I'm totally in favor of the idea.

I'm all for it. I'd love to play a specifically Colovian Imperial. Or a non-tradition subgroup of the Bretons, like the Normari, the Dunlish, the Horseman or the Reachmen. Or of course a Khajiit variant like the Ohmes or Ohmes-Raht, or a Naga Saxhleel.

I think I can agree with that. I really hope BGS doesn't ignore the importance of having the various playable races when they do TES VI. I'm thinking they likely understand that fans want the ten main races to remain playable and that people at least want a taste of the various subraces (not in a cannibalistic or suggestive way, of course), especially when just about every occasion when certain playable races were removed, the game either didn't sell well or they were basically forced to find a way to add the missing races back to the playable status (the latter seems to have happened with both Morrowind and ESO).

very much yes the idea of full cat spies just sitting in a window sill watching all your secrets is just an amazing thought.

likely not going to happen, actually VERY unlikely.

Visually, most of the "subraces" have little to no difference, with only the khajiit and argonians having "variants", thing is Khaiit is never going to happen because again, most of the sub races either are four-legged, which is auto-not going to happen, or have very little difference besides height and weight. the few who are different would likely not going to make it because why bother working more on a single race, a race that many do not even play.

Argonians have NEVER had actual visual differences besides some small mentions in the in-game books, the different ones between the game have always been simply outright retcons about their appearance, this is a known fact.

This is basically the issue. All the variations are either not visually or magically distinct (Bretons are Bretons, regardless of their cultural differences) or so radically different that they are entirely impractical to use. While it may be 'fun' (for some people, anyway) to play as a housecat, it makes designing relevant content and environments, not to mention equipment almost impossible.

I disagree. We have people who can change into wolves and bears in the game. If it's possible to adjust things to accommodate these forms, it's possible to bring in four-legged cats and other beast-shapes.

But look at how simplistic those elements are. You can't wear equipment, you can't interact with people, you can't do a lot of things. They're so limiting in their scope that they only ever amount to a side-show, they aren't something that is worked into the entire game. their application is so limited that they don't offer a constant experience throughout, but rather a temporary diversion in the same way as Watchdog's Digital Trips.

Trying to add things like Senche and Afliq cripplingly limits their interaction models without radically changing how the game works. It makes them highly impractical from a technical sense, and making them functional would require heavy sacrifices in other areas.

I think something like the "Backgrounds" system in Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines could work. There after choosing a clan, which are anologous to races in a games like TES, you can choose a background (provided you've installed a patch). They rearrange your starting abilities.

For example, Ventrue are chosen to be leaders, so while they typically have strong intuitive social skills and cerebral expertises, they tend not be much good at actually doing things because they usually such tasks to other. If you pick the "Corporate Schmo", background your character will have been more of a dogsbody (by Ventrue standards) who aspired to upper management. So that character will have more practical skills, at the expense of the standard Ventrue ones that would have probably otherwise got him promoted.

Similarly, for the Imperial race you could have "Colovian Veteran" and "Nibenese Aristocrat" backgrounds. The former would change the emphasis to combat, while the latter would improve magical skills. Another one could be used for Waterfront underclass characters for a stealth build. Meanwhile, the educated and militia trained middle class background would be the unnamed default background. Then perhaps a class could chosen or created on top.

I agree with this, I think it woulc be hard to create certain dynamics in the game without sacrificing in other areas.

I feel this is where actual roleplaying comes in. You can create those roles in game if you desire too. When I create character I always have their morality in mind, what their personality would be like I suppose. Then I play the game accordingly. A lot of this comes down to roleplaying in the end.

Now if you had the Sea Elves as a playable race, or one of the Akaviri races, that would be much different. Perhaps you could interact with traders from Akavir in the next game? I feel that's where they need to exapand too.

I think for a lot of them you could easily play as with use of a good character creator and a bit of imagination (or backgrounds like someone suggested, but that would require NPC's to acknowledge it and lol). You could easily make a Colovian or Nibenean in Skyrim's for example. (I always play Nibeneans when I go Imperial) Some Khajiit subspecies too, if there were a height slider and more options for facial structure and fur pattern.

But yeah, I'd like to play Imga or one of the other Khajiit races like the quadripedal ones or the more elf-like ones. The quadripedal ones probably need their own game mode, though.

Yeah, but I'd like it more if the "sub-cultures" as it were would be better represented as an actual, identifiable things you can sort through in-game. For the most part, I figure they'd function more like a sort of psuedo-class (What skills start out higher at the start of the game) with maybe a few extra customization features. Even better, I'd like there to be actual dialogue options and choices that would involve them if you choose some. They wouldn't come up all the time, but to have your roleplaying choices represented is a great thing IMO.

I tend to agree, because culture has a very strong element of identity and interaction which goes beyond conscious decision. They largely define what you know and how you see the world, and it's more of an effort to go against them than to act them out.

I feel that's more of a diversity issue. The Forsworn were an intersting group of people. They had their own history, culture, beliefs, weapons and armor. Something that you don't see much elsewhere in Skyrim, they were more "believable" then a bunch of random Nords all wearing the same Iron Armor. I feel the story would have just as much of an impact on identity as well, but the civil war didn't really feel like a war. There was no sense of urgency. You walk into an imperial territory wearing stormcloak armor, no one said anything. Maybe programming that in so that they do acknowledge what you do, or what you're wearing. Allow you to join more factions such as the Forsworn, or a group of bandits.

Going back to the Forsworn, I don't think much would really seperate them from normal Bretons stat wise. Maybe archery and a resistance to frost from their Nord blood. I don't think stats would make much of a difference. But, lets say you could join the Forsworn and have a unique questline where you take back The Reach after the civil war. You can learn the history and culture, be regarded differently by other NPCs and maybe learn unique spells and magic found in the Forsworn culture, such as nature based destruction spells. I don't think you need six thousand sub-cultures to pick from, just that the game could use a lot more depth in many areas.

Not really. A lot of the lore gives us clear cultural divisions within each individual culture. Hell, the Nord's of the Old Holds are supposed to be more "elemental" and strange then the Nord's of the more recent Holds like Haafingarr or Falkreath. That's not even bringing up the Skaal or Askalde Men. The only race where this really becomes a finnicky issue is the Bosmer, mostly because we don't really have clear sub-divisions within their culture. These thing do exist in the setting, and giving us the tools to actually depict and play as them really helps for Roleplaying when you have a concrete choice of what to choose from.

And no, the Forsworn (Reachmen) would have different racial bonuses in skills and Powers. I always found the Breton's being one of the quasi-magical races weird to begin with. The Breton's as a whole are probably one of the most diverse people in the setting, and very few of them in actuality pursue a magical based career. Each sub-culture should have their own individual power that suits they're specific needs. A Breton aristocrat (Nobility is a very big thing there) would be well versed in Speechcraft, swordplay, and maybe Alteration/Restoration. The Reachmen meanwhile would be very, very different from them, opting in for Conjuration, Sneak, Light Armor, Spears and Axes as their go to skills, with perhaps a passive bonus in poison making.

I can easily list all of the races and their specific sub-cultures, and what skills/powers they'd excel in, if you wish.

The real trick for the developers is to add enough cultural-specific dialog and other distinct options to make it at least seem significant, without blowing half the budget for unique content just so you can still play the Main Quest with a quadruped Khajiit or fully aquatic Argonian sub-species.

I do want the game to recognized and acknowledge at least some of my character creation choices and their major accomplishments in the game, it's just the matter of degree that's debatable. When you're decked out in full Daedric and head of more than one faction, where most of the residents of the entire province would know your name and recite your latest deeds as part of daily gossip, it's immersion-breaking to have some local resident treat you like a beggar or vagabond of no consequence. The more the game reacts to who you are and what you do, rather than just to your level, the more believable it is.

this is the reason it will NEVER happen.

Quad-Khajiit or full aquatic Argonians? No, probably not. Like I said though, you can use the sub-cultures as a pretty good stand in for classes with some of it coming up in dialogue. It being relevant all the time is frankly, well, absurd.

I think the Cyrodiil (Imperial) divide is often misinterpreted. It is not a racial divide anymore than a Telvanni is to a Redoran. Cyrodiils had various outside ingredients added into their makeup, but they are still basically the same human ancestry. That and they have been united as a single people for way too long not to mix this further still.