And far superior writing and characters...

Bethesda FOR-EV-ER.

wrong, FO3 had no endings (with broken steel) the main quest ended but you could keep playing. in New vegas you could get 70+ cinematic cut scenes after the game play ends and you can't play that character past that point.

It makes no difference, the second factions come into play and individual characters gets multiple endings, then it creates a lot of new work.



wrong, Fallout 3 had two endings, one being that you sabotage the purifier and kill everybody who's not a pure human, and the other being that you don't sabotage it and you save thee wasteland. Incredibly circular logic on your part.

And oddly enough, despite the game showing you piles and piles of fresh corpses in the ending cutscene, when you load up broken steel everybody seems to be just fine.

That was fairly poor execution, come to think of it, would have been nice if you could have sided with the Enclave had you sabotaged the purifier. Its stuff like this that needs to be taken into account when making a "play after MQ" DLC. Bethesda couldn't even make two alternate quest-lines, how do you imagine that Obsidian could make three, and modify almost every aspect of the wasteland to support the outcome?

I'd rather only see Beth work on its IPs than let someone else handle them.

I didn't have any major issues with NWN 2 (the expansions svcked though) or FO: NV, other than 1 quest bug with the Great Khans, and I played them a LOT. The only real problem I see with NV is how they tried to fit a traditional RPG into a sandbox format. If NV had another year of development it probably would have been fleshed out a TON better too.

Honestly, the biggest thing is "if it's good".

If it's good, then sure. If it's good, there's no need to fanrage. If it's good, I'd like to see one. If it's good.

Lord knows Obsidian doesn't need another flawed game on their record.

Bethesda wouldn't want to give Obsidian the reins for a flagship title spinoff because TES fans would find out how mediocre the ES writing has been so far. Of course Obsidian would probably be dubbed the 'Treyarch' of RPGs after doing repeated spinoffs of BGS titles.

thats the MQ, before the broken steel update, when you completed the main quest that was the end of the gamplay for that save, after broken steel you could keep playing. FO3 game play does not have a kill switch were you can't play that character past that point any more. NV does.

Ok, and the problem with that is?

Your logic:

Fallout 3 has no ending because it has broken steel

Fallout NV has multiple endings because it does not have a dlc that makes it so there's no multiple endings.


Fallout 3 DID HAVE AN ENDING, the ending includes one of two outcomes. The broken steel DLC expanded it beyond that later on. New Vegas has an ending, just as Fallout 3 does, except the ending provides you with hundreds of possible outcomes, so unlike with fallout 3, it'd be incredibly hard to make a DLC that makes the game continue after the ending cutscene since there'd be HUGE conflictions with the possible outcomes of the Hoover dam battle that are explained in the cutscene.

it means your constantly starting over again because every time you finish the main quest you can't continue with that character, or you just constantly do everything but not finish the Main quest. it completely ruins any kind of role play, it is literally impossible to role play in NV without completly ignoring any mq plot lines and not ruin your emersion.

Here's an idea, don't even start the MQ.

Most of the game's content lies in side quests anyways, most people who are concerned with Role playing don't even start the main quest until level 20+

This. Over hundreds of my characters through all Beth, or Beth like RPGs, only a few characters cared about 'playing the chosen one', or were even worthy of going through the main quest. What does an Argonian Witch-Doctor or a Jet addict care about becoming a reincarnated Dark Elf, or picking sides in a struggle for the wasteland? It matters who your role-playing. I take quests that fit my character. Not the ones I want to play.

again, the main quest to FO3 had an ending, but you could keep playing the rest of the game after you beat the mq. you can't do that in NV. and that ole lame argument Oh, the outcomes would just conflict with the gameplay afterwards and the whole game would have to be rescripted is literally crock. legion wins, put legion in the strip. mr house, protectrons. NCR, ncr has the strip. it comes down to is that they don't want to put in a week or two (max) effort to change that. it would take less time than that crappy dlc they pumped out right after the release. there were three geographical outcomes concerning the three main factions. there were several other cut scene outcomes that would not be visable in gamplay any ways so no changes would have to be made.

FO3 had the same problem, but instead of saying that the outcomes are to complicated to script (lying through thier teeth) they made broken steel. NV could have its own version of broken steel easy.

to be clear too, I am not directing my ire about NV's uncomely ending at you but at obsidian. they took a bethesda game and broke one of the golden gamesas standards that you play the game the way you want and that specifcly includes continues unending game play.

A large portion of people never did oblivion's main quest either... so would it matter?

EDIT: The discussion is getting a bit off topic.

I'm starting to wonder if people even know what a RPG is. Protip: Fallout 1 & 2 are awesome examples.

because the confict of the hoover dam (ie: the maing quest) is unavoidable in dialog topics. even the side quests revolve heavily around the conflict. it would be utterly rediculous to play any role and ignore that conflict when almost every npc has a dialog related to it. you would have to avoid nearly all npc's with mq dialog (or avoid those topics) and all that leaves you with to role play with is just shooting people in the head and taking their loot. as a role player I might as well have a automated player button that plays the game for me while I go do something more stimulating with my brain.



thats the core issue with obsidian in NV. Oblivion's content wasn't all centered on the Mq. all you had to do is ignore the first quest hint at the begining and you would never be bothered with the MQ again unless you wanted to, to the extreme where almost no dialog would cover any of the details of the MQ. this was diliberate. not that I am saying Obsidian made NV not like that diliberatly, but when they were called out on it they said that it could not be fixed... even though Broken steel fixed the exact same problem for FO3.

Wow, with all due respect, what you don't know could fill a warehouse. I've played through the game 6 times with 6 different characters and reached almost all of the "big" outcomes.. Part of me thinks you didn't even play the game more than once so what the heck would you know? Sounds like you rushed through the main quest, did no sidequests or no companion quests.

Conditions for legion victory:

- If Caesar lives, NCR retreat, survivors are crucified at the dam. Legion marches through Novac and enslaves much of it's populace. They fight back.. outcomes may very depending on how you do Craig Boone's quest. caesar and the legion approach the strip, IF arcade gannon is in freeside, he attempts to help refugees escaped, a legion explore sees him, and him and his refuegees are gunned down in the street. Caesar lets the Followers Leave out of respect, since he used to be one of them. Two of the casino families welcome him.

- If Caesar dies, Legate Lanius takes over. He burns Novac to the ground, enslaving and killing everybody. When he enters the strip/freeside, all of the followers of the apocalypse are massacred, and most of the residents of freeside are killed or enslaved. Arcade gannon is killed as with the other outcome.

That's just two of the main outcomes (for a Caesars legion victory), depending on each main outcome, it affects the outcomes of almost every companion and every faction in the wasteland. here's a page with all the possible outcomes since I can't possibly explain them here. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_endings

So if the legion won, it wouldn't be simple matter of "switching ncr troops with legion" they'd need to kill off many, many characters, remove entire towns, etc. If there independence, then all the armies and supporting characters need to disappear (removing about 30-40 side quests)



Wow, lol. I don't even know where to begin on this comment. Fallout is a Bethesda game in legal ownership only, they didn't make the brunt of the fallout games.

You're doing it wrong. You don't "avoid the mainquest", you do everything alongside the main quest.

Exactly.

While running around closing Oblivion gates or killing dragons in Skyrim I bet a person could easily complete most of the quests and other content.

I have played all out the outcomes and they could easily carry on after the battle. just because I defeated legion doesn't mean they would disapear, they would still keep attack only there would be alot less of them and that is easy to script. if NCR looses and legion takes the dam and strip all you have to do is add legion at both places and restrict ncr troopers to the western borders with the occasional ranger. if house wins you replace the other two with securitrons. its simple and they could have done it if they didn't waste their effort on that gamestop (or whatever) preorder dlc to sqeeze out every dollar.

just insulting me and calling me ignorant without stating any evidence or argument beyond "your wrong" doesn't make it so. again, I am not attacking you personally so I don't see why you are doing so to me. I am merely disagring with you and stating my reasons why.

again, FO3 had the exact problem and broken steel fixed it perfectly. FO3 had more than 2 outcomes as well by the way. you could use the modified FEV on the purifying to poisen all npc's with mutated genes. and logically before broken steel the same that is said for the legion in NV could be said about the enclave. you'd beat them so how would you script them to disapear afterwards, fixed by adding a bit of new information, instead of beating them completely at the purifyer they added a bit of back story and extended the MQ. NV doesn't even need to extend the MQ, just the same cut scenes and a little re arranging of npc's.

I am entitled with the right to disagree with you and just because you don't like that doesn't mean I am going to set aside that privalige. I sincerely hope you have a good evening.

Add me to this camp.

I actually grew to dislike the Oblivion planes after the 2nd play-through, so I simply didn't do the main quest in all my subsequent play-throughs (5 or 6 play-throughs) and instead lived as I wanted to live. Without the main quest started, the skies were clear and the world was very much normal (without Oblivion creatures constantly spawning everywhere). It was Wonderful, and I never looked back.

I plan to do the same with Skyrim assuming I can .

I still do not see why the game HAS to continue after the main quest is over, even IF it were easy to implement. I come from the generation where games ended, so my confusion over why it is such a big deal may be the fault of my first 15 years of gaming.