By the same token the argument could be made that a person in full plate could never hit a lightly armored person because he would be too slow. The monk would just run behind you, kick out your knee from behind and then you're on your back like a turtle. Hand to hand is far more than just punching. The game might just allow punching but thats just a simplification and cannot legitimately be used as an argument supporting not being able to used hand to hand against an armored man.

Instead of acrobatics, how about something like a climb skill or a disguise skill?

I like it the way it is, it feels upgraded from oblivion

Cheers

I was thinking earlier and I was thinking that it should be "Fletching" instead, that way all three get a crafting tree

makes sense to me.

What are you on about? I'm saying that applying your logic of plausibility being needed for it to be viable, swords and axes would be all but useless against dwemer constructs and plate armour. Yes, plate armour does have some weak spots, but that limits you to using the point of your sword, which makes you as good as dead against someone who isn't limited in that way. Maces are the only weapons plausible for use against plate armour; well, that and bows.

On topic; I really really don't want H2H to become based on chinese/japanese martial arts as some people are suggesting; at the moment it has a specifically western influence in technique which looks better, is more plausible and generally more effective. Anything Kung-fu/Karate like can GTFO

Bring back acrobatics and climbing, and unarmored, and spear for that matter. Bring all Morrowind skills back IMO, and give em all perks. And bring back attributes.

Sense? The hero can ***king kill people using his VOICE, imagine what he could do with his hands???

Wouldn't bother me, hand to hand is pointless.

Blocking an axe, mace, sword, or dagger with your bare hands may seem unrealistic to you, but have you considered people like the Forsworn taking hits to their exposed fleshy areas by said weapons, yet still being able to fight as if such blows didn't hurt much? All you need to do is throw on a pair of gauntlets, and your hands are now protected, and should be deadlier with or without perks. I am with the OP on this though. I would like to see H2H come back, and have H2H weapons such as claws.

Naw, I aint tryna bring fists to a swordfight

The thing people don't seem to understand is that brining a 1h axe to a sword fight is equally as likely to result in your death; the sword being longer than the axe, more versatile in attacks and able to parry and block, which an axe cannot.

I would only want to see it added if they implemented grabs.. Instead of blocking swords with your wrists, you should have to side step and grab their arm or something.

Maybe make some cool neck-breaking stealth attacks.

Instead of calling it Hand to hand, call it martial arts or something, so we can use kicks as well.

And before anyone says that you can't fight someone who has a sword if you are unarmed, you're wrong. It's not easy to do, and it requires a hell of a lot of training and practice in martial arts, but it's possible.

What? You don't think it's possible to intercept a blade before it can hurt you with just your hands?

Anyway... I just wish fists functioned like every other 1-handed weapon in TES

There are such thing as hand-to-hand weapons in Skyrim: They're called Gauntlets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XHLE6leUw8, especially the Khajiit.

i would like to see khajiiti martial arts
oh and you would be able to disarm too.

Yeah, the whole "realism" argument is absolutely missplaced in this discussion.

Hand2Hand would be cool, if it was deeper.
As a one-hand- or two-hand-weapon guy you have the joy of collecting and using different weapons.
For bare hands there should also be something, which makes it more than just doing the same punch over and over again.

So, generally I'd say H2H yes.
But as long as it's only like it was in Oblivion I really don't care, because to me it's rather boring.

I never use H2H, since I prefer Bows, however I have considered making a Khajiit who fights that way. That said, while I wouldn't object to H2H returning, I just can't see it as being viable at high levels.

Oh God, it's begun.
Stealth attacks should be chokes simply because they're more consistent and generally more effective. Neck breaks are a move many people think is cool, but which is largely based in fantasy. Yes, people have more than likely done it at some point, but that doesn't change the fact a choke is a FAR more consistently successful technique.


Calling it martial arts is an invitation to implement useless kung fu [censored]. It should remain hand-to-hand as the term does not preclude kicks, it is simply an idiom used to describe fighting without a weapon.

That being said, the combat should include mainly fist strikes, headbutts and minor grappling moves imo, as it's easy to illustrate on-screen and generally more useful in a wider range of situations. Against people with weapons, grappling is more effective than kicks without a shadow of a doubt.

You still can't really punch joints all that effectively.

What has this got to do with anything? You can't stab joints very effectively either with a sword. The only way you're going to get through plate with a blade is if you do what archers used to do to knights when they got close; they'd grab him and shove a dagger in his armpit. In a straight up fight however, swords/blades against plate armour are near-useless.

No. This is a horrible idea. Why would you want to dumb down the skills even more?

ok. whatever. don't care. as long as sneak attacks are implemented as something other than just a really strong punch to the foot/arm/random body part.



Have you ever seen muay-thai? Kicks have more range and power than punches. Sure, grappling is extremely viable, but kicks are ridiculous as well. And muay-thai uses elbows and knees too. Freakin diesel.

Lol I've been doing muay thai as a part of MMA for a long time, and trust me it's not as great as you think. My reasoning is as follows; against someone swinging a weapon, the LAST thing you want to be doing is kicking from maximum range. You will be torn to pieces. As an unarmed fighter, what you want to do is close distance quickly, remove the threat of the weapon and deal with the enemy - (standing) grappling and short range strikes are FAR more conducive to this goal.

Kicks are effective, but not against someone who has a better weapon than you for that range.

Sure. But what about if you're in a brawl with a nord who's trying to fight you with his fists?

And I could easily use your same argument against you and say that grappling is utterly worthless and shouldn't be bothered to implement because 1. frost trolls. 2. dragons. 3. magic users. 4. bow and arrows.

It seems like H2H is impractical considering that this is a game with dragons and magic and deadly weapons, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be denied the skill. It might not be as nearly as good as the rest of them, but it would be interesting to roleplay a monk-type character. And throwing in some kicks with your punches would make it more interesting than just "punch punch punch power-punch punch punch".

And earlier you said that H2H should mainly consist of punches, minor grappling moves, and headbutts. HEADBUTTS? really? You want to see headbutts, but not kicking? You....you're not making any sense.





The only issue I have with H2H becoming a skill, is that it would level up your character when you get into a bar brawl. I like how it doesn't contribute to your level (I like to be somewhat of a power-gamer), considering that there is still some level scaling and max level and what not.