This came up in another thread that, if you think about it, the Altmer are the ONLY race that has a racial weakness; every other race gets nothing but a benefit. Some races have benefits that are far more useful than others (Bretons get extra magicka, magic resistance AND Dragonskin, whereas Nords only get a blegh frost spell and Woad, Orcs only get berserk and minor magic resistance, and Khajiit just get a crappy night vision that almost anyone can learn), but only the Altmer explore the idea of a race having a weakness. Personally, I find the Altmer to be one of the more interesting classes to play for this very reason: if I play an Altmer, I'll have no trouble casting any spell I please, but I better come up with a plan to take out other mages. I'm incredibly strong against thieves and warriors (though enchantments could even the playing field), but one wrong move could mean death against my fellow mages. And should I horde a lot of good gear, I can eventually nullify my weakness and become extremely strong.


Wouldn't it be more interesting if most of the races had a benefit and a weakness? Say for instance, what if Orcs had 50% magic resistance, but they were 10%-20% slower than other races when it came to running speed. Or what if Redguards could swing their weaponry 25% faster than other races, but they suffered from an equal increase in how long it takes them to cast a spell? Meanwhile we could still provide people with races that suffered from no weaknesses but had very minor benefits for those who didn't want a dramatic weakness and strength, such as Imperials and Khajiit, but the more dramatic strengths and weaknesses for, say 6 of the 10 races, would add to the diversity of the game, making every playthrough feel much different.

Sound like a good idea or do most people not want something like this?

As long as it's within lore then yes. I think picking a race should matter more.

Yes please. I must be the only person that liked the beast race limitations in MW. It just made sense and made playing them more challenging and enjoyable.

I love Altmer's just because of the great roleplaying aspect of it.

My Altmer Mage in Skyrim will be called Rymariel, and she'll only wear finer robes and clothing, heavily enchanted to her satisfaction of course.

Plus, there's something alluring about a race that are arrogant but powerful.

I would like to see better weaknesses, since Bethesda seems to favour the Breton's over our beloved Altmer for magic casting.

I would enjoy stuff like that, I'd rather races be more defined and have unique playthroughs than just a few small boosts. It would also affect your strategy if you knew the strengths and weaknesses of a race you were fighting.

Of course.

I mean there's a lot of opportunity there, and honestly? Most of the racial bonuses svck. Khajiit, Argonian, Bosmer, Imperial have bonuses so small that they would never be a selling point for anyone, Dunmer, Nords, Orcs, and Redguard have minor benefits that are nice, but certainly don't sway your decision in what to make (no one says "75% fire resistance?!!? I'm SOLD!" even if it is convenient to have), and Bretons and Altmer are the only two with a racial bonus that stands out, with Bretons being absolute God-tier among them all: FFS a Breton is an Altmer, a Nord and an Orc combined into one.

I mean they cut Acrobatics and Athletics. Why not give the Khajiit a massive jumping ability that no one else can compare to, but in return make Khajiit twice as susceptible to poisons and food debuffs, to tie in with their addiction issues with Skooma and Moon Sugar.

They should give Breton's a weakness, definately, they are too much OP in Elder Scrolls.

Like, they have very high resistance to magic, but they have lowered health and take more damage from weapons due to their magical tactics?

I just want it to be balanced, which was not the case in Oblivion. I think some races should be like the Altmer, an amazing bonus but a dangerous weakness, while some races should get only a minor bonus and a minor weakness. In Oblivion it was extremely unbalanced, some of the races had way too many benefits (Bretons anyone?).

I don't really have right to say, I only play Altmer, and the weaknesses are easily balanced by the extra magicka. Scaling down the bretons wouldn't hurt a bit though, unless you only play breton for the bonuses. I would say they are the only race that could do with an extra weakness, which would give the two magically adept races a bit of balancing, sounds fair to me.
As for the extra time to cast and attack, it's one thing to apply a passive weakness, boost or resistance, quite another to mess with the animations.

Well I think there are players who would like to play a caster without receiving a weakness, so Bretons can serve that purpose. Let them keep their magicka bonus that's inferior to that of Altmers, maybe have Bretons start out with lower health (I believe Oblivion had altmer start with 80 while Breton got 60. This is fine), but what's important is that they receive no other benefit in return for their higher magicka and lack of magic weakness. The problem with Bretons is that they get a magicka bonus AND resistance AND an incredible shield spell whereas Altmer only have a massive weakness to counter their magicka.

They should just get resistance, but lowered health. That sounds more fair.

While Altmer can have weaknesses, but higher magicka?

Orcs get a huge agility decrease when using berserker. I've always wanted to know how they balanced the redguards. They're like better orcs? It fits with lore because the redguards beat the orcs but still.. Are we going to see argonians racially better than dunmer too? That'd be kind of cool actually also, I believe orcs get worse disposition than redguards too, not sure =x

Ideally, what I would like to see is each race having an activated racial ability, two-three passive traits, and a weakness of some description. I know some people wouldn't like how MMOy that would feel in terms of race balancing etc, but I think it would have a positive effect on the game world overall whilst adding a little more diversity.

Altmer born under the sign of The Apprentice.

Rain down destruction to your hearts content but merely touch a candle flame and you'll burn to death.

Anyway great idea, OP, all races should have better bonuses as well as more weaknesses, would make for a far more interesting playthrough just by picking race alone (along with the skills you choose to excel at).

It's incredibly doable. New Vegas featured reload speed being governed by Agility, and kept the potential reload speeds in a range that made all of them believable. 10 Agility reload speed looked believable and so did 1 Agility; 1 Agility just looked like your character was the calmest mother [censored] on the planet who wasn't quite grasping the dangers surrounding him.

Swing speed differences were implemented to. I think melee weapons in New Vegas could get up to a 50-75% speed bonus and still look fine.

The only thing im a little dissapointed with within the game is that there will be no difference betwene the speed of the different races, kahjiits SHOULD have much better starting speed than orcs,
i really hope that does NOT go for strength and magica to . . .

But who used Berserker?

The problem with all those bonuses was that you could only use them once per DAY, so you saved them for that moment where you were about to die. Berserker wasn't even that great for saving your life because it often meant you'd get staggered more. Adrenaline rush was great for saving your life, but again, only once per day.

We need benefits and weaknesses that are constantly present, affecting everything we do.

I fully appreciate it can be done, I just mean with the approaching release date. Start changing anything like that, and with the more tactical combat we have now, there could be serious balancing issues, no one wants to get the game on day one, pick a race, then get told they need patching, because they are too weak at high level, a few weeks later.

Hey, it's not like classes are balanced as they are now.

If you asked everyone in this thread to make the most overpowered character they can, 90% of the people would make a Breton, Orc or an Altmer because they're the only three with a long-term and constant benefit. Practically nobody would make a Khajiit or an Imperial.

I argue they've got nothing to lose.

Things like Berserker, Adrenaline Rush, and Dragon Skin, or maybe just all greater powers should be on a universal cooldown like Dragonshouts


And people saying that Bretons should have less magicka, less health, and more resistance than Altmers, they already do :I

Now maybe a 10% weakness to Melee attacks could make them more fleshy and even, but idk.

A ten times YES! I would like it to matter what race I chouse beyond the cosmetics reasons, and I want them to feel differently while playing.

I play female Altmer, so it's the same starting health as Bretons for OB; one thing the Altmer had as a small bonus was faster running speed for the extra height, now that is gone. Mind you, I never noticed the disease resistance, perhaps that was saving me from a load of headaches at lower levels.

I play a female altmer too, for cosmetic reasons, and they are much better and challenging than Breton, plus for half-elves, they look exactly like a fair skinned Imperial.

Absolutely. In later game in OB the racial bonuses far outweighed the benefit of the race traits. I usually play as a Nord or Orc because they make perfect warriors. But it turns out playing a Breton is actually far better for me because of the 50% magic resistance is very useful and your skill bonuses like Armourer can always be trained to catch up.

Races have already been set as the same speed and since there are no major or minor skills it looks like race is going to have very little effect. I would like to see much more racial difference including base speeds, strengths, abilities etc.

The weakness for Altmers in Oblivion was easy enough to counter.
Pick the Atronach birtsign when you come out of the sewers (+250 magicka at lvl1 is amazing btw) and half the things enemies flung at you would be absorbed and towards the end it was easy enough to cover the other 50% which made you mostly immune to magic barring reflected spells.

But yes it would be nice that all races get an active and passive bonus that's coupled with a negative one. Though technically all races had negative points due to lowered attributes.