A true RPer wants PvP everywhere. Personally I am not much of a PvPer, but being in a world where none can harm you and you are strangely invincible to other players, just doesn't make sense in terms of RP.

There could still be safe-zones and murderer penalties that would discourage griefers enough, a system that will not let anyone abuse free pvp, just to have a few outlaws running around spicing up the game for everybody else. Why does none seem to realize that? I've seen this system work flawlessly.

I hate the "we must be protected from griefers so we destroy a part of the reality of the virtual world we are in" line of thinking. It's silly at best. There are always ways to control griefing with automatic systems.

No true Scotsman fallacy. Someone who wants PvP everywhere is no more an RPer than someone who doesn't.

Boom, second this point. I love to RP and I prefer my PvP to be in a PvP zone or heck maybe even challenges acceptable/deniable wherever.

This very much. Richard Garriott de Cayeux (Creator of Ultima Online) recently visited the free UO shard I play and he said that he loves griefers, since they show how free the game is; he also lamented how most MMOs try to avoid the possibility of griefing by restricting freedom.

A true RPer never wants an invisible protective bubble around him that makes him invincible and untouchable to other adventurers, because -he can't explain it- it doesn't make sense in his world.

Neither do the so called "pvp zones", mysterious areas where suddenly the bubble goes away and everyone becomes aggressive.

A true RPer doesn't need this mysterious bubble - he will hide, or hire protection, if he is afraid of outlaws.

A true RPer doesn't KNOW if the adventurer in front of him is an enemy or a friend. That's one of the joys of the true RPer.

So yea guys, you can keep talking about the fallacy of the true RPer argument, but you know these things ring true.

In these modern "designated path mmos" with PVE PVP PVA PVB PVC zones, we have forgotten how to hide, how to interact with other people, how to RP. I feel sad for the players who haven't experienced these things.

A true RPer is a fallacy in itself, that assumes one universal definition to the concept which there isn't.

Let's not have this turn into a debate though, we don't want to hijack the OP's thread so I won't discuss this further.

I don't see why not. It would add more to the game in my opinion.

The fallacy is in your mind my friend. Quoting from my previous edited post

Can't make you see it, unfortunately, but at least I can describe it to you. The experience of LIVING in a virtual world. Because that's exactly what an RPer is about.

I posted that before your edit, but regardless I still disagree with your final point. That is your definition of an RPer and maybe that of others, but you don't speak for all nor do you define what it means for all.

But as I edited into my previous post but not until after you responded to it so I will state it again here, we shouldn't debate this, no need to hijack the thread with our differences of opinion.