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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 4:42 pm

English grammar and punctuation is weird :biglaugh:

Agreed. Still, I can't deny that I love the English language.
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Abel Vazquez
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:32 am

Here is some on punctuation Treydog and I were discussing which is rather interesting in our opinion.:
Here's the thing; I was just re-reading the last intallments on "Blood on the moon" to study punctuation and I came across this sentence what got me thinking:
Finally, Anders, our leader, yelled, 'Silver! Use a silver blade if you have one!'


I am always struggling with dialogue tags, punctuations and so on and thought: "If I had written it, I probably would've done it like this:" (Hmm... which side do you place the colon in this situation anyway?)
Finally; Anders, our leader, yelled: 'Silver! Use a silver blade if you have one!'


Now that I look at that sentence, the commas DO rather spring up like weeds. Let's see if I can decipher my (muddled) thought process---

"Finally, " So far, so good- introductory element set off with a comma.

"Anders, our leader," Setting off an appositive, explaining that Anders was "our leader."

"yelled," Yes, a colon there would rather stem the rising tide of "comma-nism." And I have used colons for dialogue tags before, although not consistently. In that case, it would have been useful to clarify things.

I hope it's useful to you :foodndrink:
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Steeeph
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:08 pm

Here is some on punctuation Treydog and I were discussing which is rather interesting in our opinion.:


I am always struggling with dialogue tags, punctuations and so on and thought: "If I had written it, I probably would've done it like this:" (Hmm... which side do you place the colon in this situation anyway?)
Finally; Anders, our leader, yelled: 'Silver! Use a silver blade if you have one!'


I hope it's useful to you :foodndrink:

That is very useful, Remko. Thanks!

I've never had a problem with dialogue tags after the dialogue - but I've always been rather confused about them before dialogue. This cleared up a lot. Thanks again. :)
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jadie kell
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:55 pm

Maybe this is a weakness, but I sidestep those issues instead of tackling them.

Our leader Anders finally yelled, 'Silver! Use a silver blade if you have one!'
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x a million...
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 2:21 pm

Maybe this is a weakness, but I sidestep those issues instead of tackling them.

Our leader Anders finally yelled, 'Silver! Use a silver blade if you have one!'


That's what I usually do. A trusty comma and continue on with the story :D


Now, my newest question is not one of the actual writing, but the pre-writing. I am trying to plan for my stories a little, but my plots always end up a little bland, and I only spice them up as I go along. Now, this system has been working okay so far, but I really want to get one of those "wow" plots, that make you go back and read it again just to see the subtleties of the thing. Like Fight Club, or the Da Vinci Code.

Are there any tricks to getting that really good mystery set up, or do you just need lots of practice with suspense and foreshadowing. I figured that if you keep in mind your overall goal, you can foreshadow much easier, but I can never find really good places to do it in. Does anyone have any methods they use that they would like to share?

Also, I am trying to write some original fantasy, within my own universe, and am having trouble getting the same kind of lore depth that things like Tes and LotR have. Now, I know they spent years making those things up, but I just seem to be getting lost, not really knowing where to start. I googled it, but I can't really find a good, step by step process that I really like. I'm trying a bottom up principle starting with religion, but I keep finding my ideas restricted by my previous "laws". For example, I want to expand the map, but I made the borders already within my creation myth. Should I just revise my creation myth then? Any of you writers that aren't solely fan fiction should know what I'm talking about :)

Thanks, your help is appreciated :goodjob:
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joannARRGH
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:48 pm

That's what I usually do. A trusty comma and continue on with the story :D


Now, my newest question is not one of the actual writing, but the pre-writing. I am trying to plan for my stories a little, but my plots always end up a little bland, and I only spice them up as I go along. Now, this system has been working okay so far, but I really want to get one of those "wow" plots, that make you go back and read it again just to see the subtleties of the thing. Like Fight Club, or the Da Vinci Code.

Are there any tricks to getting that really good mystery set up, or do you just need lots of practice with suspense and foreshadowing. I figured that if you keep in mind your overall goal, you can foreshadow much easier, but I can never find really good places to do it in. Does anyone have any methods they use that they would like to share?

Also, I am trying to write some original fantasy, within my own universe, and am having trouble getting the same kind of lore depth that things like Tes and LotR have. Now, I know they spent years making those things up, but I just seem to be getting lost, not really knowing where to start. I googled it, but I can't really find a good, step by step process that I really like. I'm trying a bottom up principle starting with religion, but I keep finding my ideas restricted by my previous "laws". For example, I want to expand the map, but I made the borders already within my creation myth. Should I just revise my creation myth then? Any of you writers that aren't solely fan fiction should know what I'm talking about :)

Thanks, your help is appreciated :goodjob:


I started working on something similar a few years back. I called the universe Atlirum. I found it best to start with a map. Then continents. Then work in all major land features, rivers. etc...

Next I placed cities, who's name differential was based off the region, all over the continents. I started with this template:

If we have continents, we'll need each to be diverse.

One continent is vastly desert.
One is vastly mountainous and snow covered.
One resembles the forests of Cyrodiil.
One is a mix of both desert and snow.
And the final is a densly covered forest region with wide open pastures. Should resemble scotland in a way.

(With this format we'll have variety.)

Creating laws so early is a definite no-no.

You need to set up the geology of your realm, create a list of races and beasts, place each in a region where you think they would prosper, then focus on religion and "laws".

But if this is too much, I'd simply suggest broadening the creation myth. In the long run you'll do more work this way, however.
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Kelly Osbourne Kelly
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:45 pm

Now, my newest question is not one of the actual writing, but the pre-writing. I am trying to plan for my stories a little, but my plots always end up a little bland, and I only spice them up as I go along. Now, this system has been working okay so far, but I really want to get one of those "wow" plots, that make you go back and read it again just to see the subtleties of the thing. Like Fight Club, or the Da Vinci Code.

Are there any tricks to getting that really good mystery set up, or do you just need lots of practice with suspense and foreshadowing. I figured that if you keep in mind your overall goal, you can foreshadow much easier, but I can never find really good places to do it in. Does anyone have any methods they use that they would like to share?


I'm going to keep this short, in consideration for the individual who feels I need to be "gagged"; if you'd like a longer discussion, feel free to pm me.

In my opinion, suspense and foreshadowing are very hard to do well. Too much of the latter and you give the story away; too much of the former and your conclusion looks contrived. If you want to read something short (as in a short story) that's beautifully suspenseful, try William Faulkner's, A Rose for Emily. And think about this: the basic plot for that short story is very, very bland. It's almost idiotic bland. What makes the story so suspenseful, what keeps you reading, is coming to care for what happens to the main character. And Faulkner foreshadows that story very well - two specific scenes come to mind.

I think the key is to be realistic in your plot and story development. Again, pm me if you'd like further information. :)

Also, I am trying to write some original fantasy, within my own universe, and am having trouble getting the same kind of lore depth that things like Tes and LotR have. Now, I know they spent years making those things up, but I just seem to be getting lost, not really knowing where to start. I googled it, but I can't really find a good, step by step process that I really like. I'm trying a bottom up principle starting with religion, but I keep finding my ideas restricted by my previous "laws". For example, I want to expand the map, but I made the borders already within my creation myth. Should I just revise my creation myth then? Any of you writers that aren't solely fan fiction should know what I'm talking about :)

Thanks, your help is appreciated :goodjob:


This semester I took a course in which we studied how people write books. Literally, how they prepare and write them. Some people write an entire book without doing any research (Stephen King is probably the most well-known proponent of this approach). Other writers, like Kazuo Ishiguro, spend years researching a novel before writing a single word. As you note, Tolkien developed put years developing middle earth - including a language system and literature.

Maybe you shouldn't start with religion - that seems to be more of an effect that a cause (we have a sun god because there's a sun in the sky). Perhaps it's better to start with a world, then a map. Consider the geology of planets (even a brief amount of research would give you a start). What kind of people evolved in this type of environment? Is it a harsh climate, difficult to farm, lots of poor societies? Is it rich in minerals or other resources that will enable the development of technology?

Once you have your planet, create your societies based upon the natural and logical reaction to the world around them. If there's lots of water, they might have a sea-based economy. If no water, then how do they deal with that. The more you plan out your world, the more ideas will come to you. If you want a list, you might consider:

1. What's the planet or where does this take place?
2. What is the natural environment?
3. What are the natural resources? What is valuable?
4. Where would people be found?
5. Where would they find food? What would they eat?
6. How was technology developed? (Remember, most technology is based on an immediate need - nothing spawns military creativity like a war.)
7. Then maybe start thinking about religion and law?

I hope this helps. As I said, pm if you want to discuss this further. :)
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 9:56 am

Also, to add to what I stated above, it may help if you wrote an in-story text or 'bible' of sorts. You may be familiar with the first book of the new testament -- Genesis.

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth..."

Having said that, I shall formally state I'm no way supporting, denying, advertising nor pushing the belief of Christianty onto anyone. The statement above is being used for diplomatic purposes only.

Anyway, you could start out by saying that so-and-so deity did this. Then this. Put this here and that here etc etc... Similar to that of the Old Testament. This would both your creation myth and your world unravelling however you see fit.
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Miss K
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:32 am

Darkom- to me, what makes a story is the story itself. The setting is important, and can be used as a major plot device (journey, vision quest, migration, captured by pirates, etc.).

Because I am a fan of character-driven stories, that is where I always start. Who is this person? What does he/she do in the world? What is the conflict (or need or mission)? How does the character feel about (fill in the blank)? Young, old? Married, single? Happy/unhappy family or community life?

So- establish characters (not too many, unless you are writing a Russian novel). Next establish a plot.

Now look at what the characters and plot say about the world they inhabit.

For world-building, realize you do not have to create an entire X billion year history- only as much as your characters know or believe. And, as Danni says, the level of technology will have a HUGE impact on the level of knowledge about the world. Think about the difference between a culture with a written language versus one without.

Having said all that, I think it only fair to add that the reason I write TES fanfiction is because I do not want to have to create my own setting, lore, and society. :P
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Andrew Perry
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 10:12 am

I never bothered with going too deep with the fantasy setting I created for my Amalia and Tanistrae fiction several years ago. First I pictured the two main characters in my head. Then I got an idea for the climate of the region the stories would be set and the culture of the people within it. I based it off the real world in order to make things easier. Not just in customs and physiology, but also in naming conventions. Then I did likewise for the neighboring regions, as they would naturally have some effect on the history and development of the main region. This is a little shortcut I learned from reading Harry Turtledove's Misplaced Legion series, and several following books in the same setting (in his case, he took the Byzantine Empire and plunked it into a fantasy setting, but kept the religious strife, internal politics, etc...). At this point I went back to the main characters and gave them names and fleshed out their histories to fit the cultures they were from.

The notes I made on it are all http://home.comcast.net/~subrosa_florens/witch/fiction_setting.html if you want to get an idea.
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Tamika Jett
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:14 am

I started working on something similar a few years back. I called the universe Atlirum. I found it best to start with a map. Then continents. Then work in all major land features, rivers. etc...
[snipped for convenience]

But if this is too much, I'd simply suggest broadening the creation myth. In the long run you'll do more work this way, however.


Yeah, that's pretty much what I am doing, but I just wanted to know if anyone else had a different system that worked well for them.

I'm going to keep this short, in consideration for the individual who feels I need to be "gagged"; if you'd like a longer discussion, feel free to pm me.

Oh come now, you can't get discouraged by one twit. Write as much as you find helpful, I know I'm reading it :goodjob:

In my opinion, suspense and foreshadowing are very hard to do well. Too much of the latter and you give the story away; too much of the former and your conclusion looks contrived. If you want to read something short (as in a short story) that's beautifully suspenseful, try William Faulkner's, A Rose for Emily. And think about this: the basic plot for that short story is very, very bland. It's almost idiotic bland. What makes the story so suspenseful, what keeps you reading, is coming to care for what happens to the main character. And Faulkner foreshadows that story very well - two specific scenes come to mind.

I think the key is to be realistic in your plot and story development. Again, pm me if you'd like further information.

Indeed, I agree. So what you are saying is the suspense is derived from the main character being in some kind of peril, thus it is not how many suspenseful scenes we use, but how well we characterize.


This semester I took a course in which we studied how people write books. Literally, how they prepare and write them. Some people write an entire book without doing any research (Stephen King is probably the most well-known proponent of this approach). Other writers, like Kazuo Ishiguro, spend years researching a novel before writing a single word. As you note, Tolkien developed put years developing middle earth - including a language system and literature.

Interesting, maybe I should find similar courses in the future. Though, I am going to a medical school, so perhaps I should try and focus more on my degree :shrug: That Steven King, always throwing a wrench in things.

Maybe you shouldn't start with religion - that seems to be more of an effect that a cause (we have a sun god because there's a sun in the sky). Perhaps it's better to start with a world, then a map. Consider the geology of planets (even a brief amount of research would give you a start). What kind of people evolved in this type of environment? Is it a harsh climate, difficult to farm, lots of poor societies? Is it rich in minerals or other resources that will enable the development of technology?

Ah, yes, the reason I started with religion is that is the first part of the idea, and the only part I could remember from my dream. That is where I was insipired to do this from, you see, and because of it I have a rough plot set up as well.

Once you have your planet, create your societies based upon the natural and logical reaction to the world around them. If there's lots of water, they might have a sea-based economy. If no water, then how do they deal with that. The more you plan out your world, the more ideas will come to you. If you want a list, you might consider:

Ah, thank you :) I'll just take a look at these then.

1. What's the planet or where does this take place? Do you mean whether it is like a pseudo Earth? Because it's just a fantasy world, nothing real special about it. In a galaxy far far away, perhaps?
2. What is the natural environment? It varies, the way I set it up is that the major gods are the four elemental forces (Fire, Earth, Water, and Wind), and I made a race to correspond to each one, and then gave them an environment based on their god and some background knowledge. Like the Nyxs (mermaid like people) live in the oceans.
3. What are the natural resources? What is valuable? Hmm... I had some mining going on for the humans living in the hills, and the coastal tribes fish, but other than that I don't have many natural resources set up. Thanks.
4. Where would people be found? All about, in the cities or on farms. I have six or seven main races, and subdividing tribes with the humans, and each live in a specific region.
5. Where would they find food? What would they eat? Agriculture, fishing, livestock; the basics.
6. How was technology developed? (Remember, most technology is based on an immediate need - nothing spawns military creativity like a war.) I had each race develop technology based on three major sources: their location, their focus, and their god. Like the Daeva (Fire god's demon spawn) created a form of explosives after stealing the technology from the peaceful, scientific Nyxs, and the human tribes living in the plains developed the most agricultural techniques.
7. Then maybe start thinking about religion and law? Whoops. And by law I didn't mean the "laws", I meant the rules, the finite things I had already created for the world. Like the gods, and my basic map outline.

I hope this helps. As I said, pm if you want to discuss this further. :)

Thank you, if you have any more advice let me know :D

Also, to add to what I stated above, it may help if you wrote an in-story text or 'bible' of sorts. You may be familiar with the first book of the new testament -- Genesis.

I have already begun thinking about it, but I wanted to create some more backstory first. Lines of poem like that keep popping up in my head though, and I always write them down.

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth..."

Having said that, I shall formally state I'm no way supporting, denying, advertising nor pushing the belief of Christianty onto anyone. The statement above is being used for diplomatic purposes only.

Anyway, you could start out by saying that so-and-so deity did this. Then this. Put this here and that here etc etc... Similar to that of the Old Testament. This would both your creation myth and your world unravelling however you see fit.


Already done ;)


Darkom- to me, what makes a story is the story itself. The setting is important, and can be used as a major plot device (journey, vision quest, migration, captured by pirates, etc.).

Because I am a fan of character-driven stories, that is where I always start. Who is this person? What does he/she do in the world? What is the conflict (or need or mission)? How does the character feel about (fill in the blank)? Young, old? Married, single? Happy/unhappy family or community life?

So- establish characters (not too many, unless you are writing a Russian novel). Next establish a plot.

Now look at what the characters and plot say about the world they inhabit.

For world-building, realize you do not have to create an entire X billion year history- only as much as your characters know or believe. And, as Danni says, the level of technology will have a HUGE impact on the level of knowledge about the world. Think about the difference between a culture with a written language versus one without.

Having said all that, I think it only fair to add that the reason I write TES fanfiction is because I do not want to have to create my own setting, lore, and society.


Yeah, I have some ideas for the major conflicts and where I will start my main character, but I wanted to get a good setting up first. I think you're talking about the top-bottom approach, where you focus in on one place first and then expand the world around it. Which is good, but I would like to get at least my map finalized first. Thanks :D

Yeah, I'm really starting to appreciate how amazing the lore is. Not to say it didn't seem amazing before, but it's like the first time I tried modding- a lot harder than it looks :P

Thanks everyone, I'll keep working then, and I'll let you know if I write this story and post it somewhere else. It'll probably end up on Feyfolken and the Scribe's Tavern too.
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Allison Sizemore
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:19 am

I know it's not very much but I really like to write fantasy fiction in my spare time (not that I have any at the moment :P)

Basically I always ask myself the same question "why would this happen?" So I think up a concept or a character that I want to write about and then I go backwards until I get the how was the world in my story created... STart in the middle work your way back keep asking yourself why would that happen until you can come up with logical answers that all fit together and make sense.

That's probably really really terrible advice but I'm just saying because that's how I do it.
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Marine x
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 3:32 pm

So I have a question regarding the use of numerals in writing fiction. I used to write non-fiction correspondence and manuals and such. The policy we enforced in our writing was to spell out numbers of nine or less and to use digits for numbers of 10 or higher; also, we were expected to be consistent within a sentence involving a mix of high and low numbers.

I checked this site: http://www.grammarbook.com/numbers/numbers.asp which seems to support my training. Rules, one and two are germaine.

Now, that all said, none of my training or the above grammar site are geared to fiction. Thoughts on using numerals in fiction?
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Roisan Sweeney
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 2:45 pm

So I have a question regarding the use of numerals in writing fiction. I used to write non-fiction correspondence and manuals and such. The policy we enforced in our writing was to spell out numbers of nine or less and to use digits for numbers of 10 or higher; also, we were expected to be consistent within a sentence involving a mix of high and low numbers.

I checked this site: http://www.grammarbook.com/numbers/numbers.asp which seems to support my training. Rules, one and two are germaine.

Now, that all said, none of my training or the above grammar site are geared to fiction. Thoughts on using numerals in fiction?
I prefer to spell out the numbers when someone is speaking them. I like the numbers as symbols when doing math.
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Heather beauchamp
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:44 pm

So I have a question regarding the use of numerals in writing fiction. I used to write non-fiction correspondence and manuals and such. The policy we enforced in our writing was to spell out numbers of nine or less and to use digits for numbers of 10 or higher; also, we were expected to be consistent within a sentence involving a mix of high and low numbers.

I checked this site: http://www.grammarbook.com/numbers/numbers.asp which seems to support my training. Rules, one and two are germaine.

Now, that all said, none of my training or the above grammar site are geared to fiction. Thoughts on using numerals in fiction?

In general, I would follow the same convention in fiction. The key to any of these "rules" is consistency- develop a style-sheet (even if it is just in your head) and follow it.

To get a bit deeper into the weeds- thinking of SubRosa's story now- things like "Legio IV" seem more immersive to me than "the 4th (or Fourth) Legion."

And then, one can have a bit of fun with those staples of fantasy-fiction- "hordes, hosts, multitudes," etc. Not numbers as such, but I can just see Buffy (or Teresa or Maxical or Angel) asking- "So how many is a 'multitude'- exactly?" or- "Which is bigger, 'scads' or 'a horde'?"
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m Gardner
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:14 pm

"I see your multitude and raise you a host..."

I prefer to spell out the numbers in fiction rather than use symbols. It just seems more... organic that way. Less artificial. Although with numbers of five or six digits that would get very awkward. Something like "one million six hundred and twenty thousand four hundred and seventy six" really does drag on. But then as treydog pointed out, we can just say "a host" then instead. :)

http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/Numbers/Numbers03.html suggests to use the names of numbers rather than symbols. But they say to alternately use numerals. So there does not seem to be a rule set in stone. I think just being consistent with yourself is the main thing.
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Paula Rose
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 3:57 pm

In general, I would follow the same convention in fiction. The key to any of these "rules" is consistency- develop a style-sheet (even if it is just in your head) and follow it.

To get a bit deeper into the weeds- thinking of SubRosa's story now- things like "Legio IV" seem more immersive to me than "the 4th (or Fourth) Legion."

And then, one can have a bit of fun with those staples of fantasy-fiction- "hordes, hosts, multitudes," etc. Not numbers as such, but I can just see Buffy (or Teresa or Maxical or Angel) asking- "So how many is a 'multitude'- exactly?" or- "Which is bigger, 'scads' or 'a horde'?"



Maxical never asks, if she can't count it on her fingers and toes she just fills her pockets with a wild guess.


What I was taught was if the number was under ten it had to be written out, over ten was preference. Was I taught right? I will go check out the link and find out, lol.

*
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~Amy~
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:10 pm

So I have a question regarding the use of numerals in writing fiction. I used to write non-fiction correspondence and manuals and such. The policy we enforced in our writing was to spell out numbers of nine or less and to use digits for numbers of 10 or higher; also, we were expected to be consistent within a sentence involving a mix of high and low numbers.

I checked this site: http://www.grammarbook.com/numbers/numbers.asp which seems to support my training. Rules, one and two are germaine.

Now, that all said, none of my training or the above grammar site are geared to fiction. Thoughts on using numerals in fiction?


The rule of thumb I've always used was: "If it takes more than three words to write out (with hyphenated numbers counting as two words), then it can reasonably be expressed in digits. Otherwise, spell it out."

I think SubRosa said it best... it's more "organic" to spell out all the numbers you can... most fiction aims to create a narrative feel. Numeric digits and narration typically don't mix, since digits aren't verbal elements. Therefore, in most genres (excepting maybe sci-fi), it's best to write out all the numbers you can afford to without tripping up the reader. At least, that's my opinion on the subject.

Examples of what I would or wouldn't write out:

Two.
12,345.
Three hundred thirty.
5,678
One million.
Forty-two.
1,200 or Twelve hundred.

Then, there are more subtle rules of thumb, like to be consistent within a sentence, erring on whichever option suits you better.

Examples:
"Rumors of the elf's age ranged everywhere from two hundred to six hundred fifty-one."
"The skyscraqer was planned to be 900 feet high, but the architect made it 1,156 feet high."

I prefer to use fractions over decimals, because they're easier to spell out. Then again, any fractions more precise than maybe in the quarter range should probably be expressed with digits. By the time you start typing "seven and five sixteenths," it loses something when writing it out. Statistics, time, and percents make more sense as digits, but try to avoid using digits in dialogue... yada yada yada. These are all my personal preferences, not consensus.

So I guess the key is that it varies from writer to writer... but as long as you're consistent within your own work, it probably won't be an issue. My personal preference is to write out as many numbers as possible, since seeing digits in text can be jarring. Nonetheless, it depends on what you're trying to do It's very variable, and entirely subjective.

Bleh. Hope that helped. :P
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Nichola Haynes
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:39 am

My thanks to everyone who helped me work through this. I will take the advice above and begin spelling out more numbers. :icecream:

My thanks also to Remko for bringing the question to my attention in a comment he made on my fanfic. Not to mention that this great thread where we can solicit such advice is his idea. :goodjob:
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xxLindsAffec
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 10:33 am

Awesome thread Remko!

Do you listen to music while you write? I know it's not exactly an on topic question, but I was just wondering.

I find this question very interesting. I didn't realise so many people listened to music as they write - although I suppose I should have remembered having beats pounding on all four of my university room walls in student digs :lol: I must be in the minority, because while I love music, I simply can't concentrate on work while it's on. When I listen to music - any music - scenes and situations automatically start to unfold in my head based on the song, and if I'm trying to write at the same time, it's like trying to look at two separate things with one eye. I end up with a terrible headache, haha.

I looked at your post several times before answering it, basically because I don't want to come off as a snotty little know it all. So, apologies if I do.

Writing is my life - literally. I have two years left on my undergraduate BFA in creative writing at Loyola University, Chicago. Since I started the program I've had short stories and essays published, and a year ago I won an award for short story I wrote. I'm not bragging (really, I'm not!), just pointing out that this is my life, my passion. I started writing when I was twelve years old and I'm twenty-six right now. Yeah, fourteen years. To make matters worse, I'm moderately dyslexic (seriously, I have to wear special glasses and everything).

I can say this with absolute certainty: Ambrose is right on. I may have had some talent, but everything I accomplished, I accomplished through hard, hard work. Talent means zip. Bars and unemployment lines are filled with people with talent. So, from someone who loves writing, here's my two cents:



2. Write, write, write. When I started my creative writing program, one of my professors told me: "Writing is no longer a hobby for you. From this moment on, you're a professional." It was the attitude change, as much as anything. If you really want to write, you have to write. Like, a lot. I write every day, for hours. I work on two, sometimes three, projects at once. Write, write, write.

3. Rewrite, rewrite, rewrite. Okay, I made an admission above that some of my friends don't even know: I have to wear special glasses because I'm dyslexic. That means my spelling is atrocious. Spell check works but only so well. To catch all the spelling errors in my writing, I have to reread and edit and rewrite my work several times. Sometimes I get lazy and I always end up completely embarrassed when someone catches a spelling error. (For example, I reread this post four times before publishing it.) Over the years, I've learned all that rewriting improves my work.



Okay, I'll say it again, you want to write, you write. Two years from now, I'll have a BFA in creative writing but so what? That won't make me a writer. What makes me a writer is the thousands and thousands and thousands of words I've put on paper and screen since I was twelve.

But that's the really cool thing: none of this is impossible. It doesn't matter if you have talent. You can do this and you can do it well, if you're willing to do the work. I promise you - you can do this. If I can do it with my screwed up eyes, I know you can do it. So keep writing!!! Eventually all the work pays off. (But not in money, in contributor copies.)

I agree with a lot of this. Talent is a fickle thing, and in any case, even if you HAVE it you probably won't have the discipline to just sit down and bash out a novel. You need other things, and the biggest is the drive to work at something until your fingers fall off. I firmly believe that anyone can do anything with enough practice, and writing is no exception. Like Danielle, I started writing my first stories at a young age - "Murphy The Water Rat And His River Adventure" for a school project at age nine comes to mind. As you might imagine, it's hilarious crap. But I'm now twenty-five, and through those sixteen years I've written so much that I've gradually found my own style, found my confidence, realised what does and doesn't work and learned from my mistakes. That's not talent; that's sheer bloody-mindedness, and anyone can do it.

Grammar hair-tearing subject for the day: practise vs practice! This foxed me for years and years until I found a simple way of determining which was the noun and which was the verb. I suddenly realised they corresponded to advise/advice - and once I knew that, working out which was which was a snip. So you would practise the violin, but you would perhaps not agree with the practice of necromancy.

Perhaps no-one had trouble with that except me, but hey, share the experience right?
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Cody Banks
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 11:23 am

My thanks to everyone who helped me work through this. I will take the advice above and begin spelling out more numbers. :icecream:

My thanks also to Remko for bringing the question to my attention in a comment he made on my fanfic. Not to mention that this great thread where we can solicit such advice is his idea. :goodjob:


Allow me to add my two cents.

I always spell out numbers as in the above sentence. The only exception I'll make is if the number is part of the proper name. For example:

42nd Street
The 28th Precinct
101st Airborne Division

There are situations where I would break rule two from that site link you gave. (consistency within a category) It is both correct and acceptable to say:

"I took the subway to the station at 135th Street and Seventh Avenue."

This is a great thread, Remko. Thanks for starting it.
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Janine Rose
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 10:06 am

Writer's Block

To talk about this, our greatest enemy, we have to define our terms. So first, let me describe what it is not. There are a great many things that keep us from writing- real life being the most prominent. But that is not writer's block. The fact that your parents, husband/wife, girlfriend/boyfriend, dog/cat/fish/ferret, etc. hates you is sad- but it is not writer's block. And this is not Treydog's advice to the lovelorn.

Writer's block is also not really the inability to write anything- it is the inability to write anything that you LIKE. There is something all writers have called the "monitor function." Sometimes it is useful- more often, it is a pain. The monitor function is that little voice in your head that tells you every idea you have is stupid. If you listen to it, you will be paralyzed. To write, you have to have enough confidence to tell the monitor to shut up.

Other times, you hit a place in your writing where you aren't sure what happens next. Maybe you have written yourself into a corner- like Mark Twain did in Huckleberry Finn.

Or maybe you simply feel like you have run out of ideas.

And maybe it is something else entirely.

But the key thing is: what do you do about it? The answer is simple to say and hard to do- you have to write your way past it. The only thing that will get you past a writer's block is to write. As some other folks have suggested, sometimes you have to put one story aside and work on another. Another thing to do is set up a routine that helps you write. When I get really stuck, I always go back to pen and paper. There is something about the physical feel of the point forming words on the page that puts me back in the proper frame of mind. Another trick is to change the scenery. Stop trying to force your way through the stuck place in the story and go around it. What I mean by that is, think about what you are sure it is you want to happen eventually in the story. Write it down. Now think about how you can get to there from where you are. I cannot repeat often enough that you need to write down every idea you have, right when you have it. It may just be a fragment of dialogue or a bit of action, but you know it will need to be in there somewhere. NEVER assume, "Oh, it's fine. I will remember that when the time comes." You won't.

Another thing that can help is to talk through the problem with someone. The very act of expressing your ideas out loud (or through IRC or IM or whatever) will force you to shape them into something more substantial and intelligible. I listed those methods for a reason- they are conversational, meaning you get instant feedback. Discussing your ideas, problems, plans, etc. via email can also work- I have actually used that technique with my story. The advantage of a discussion is that you can try out several different approaches and see which one "feels" right.

Sometimes, a stuck place is actually an opportunity. Example- in the original story, Trey once got stuck in a cave because he was hauling all of his books, alchemy apparatus, etc. around with him. That really happened in the game. And it was a wonderful opportunity to introduce some humor and to give some insight into the character. What would he give up? What would he keep? When you get stuck in your writing, go back to your original concept of the character and the story. This person is your creation, speaking with a voice you gave him/her/it. If you put some time into thinking about who the character is, that planning will help you find a way out of the problem.

"What would Maxical (or Teresa, or Buffy, or Rales, or Edward, etc.) do when confronted by a drunken Nord singing an obscene song?"

"How did that Khajiit get here? And why is he wearing a dress?"

In other words, do something unexpected, but in character. It is a fantasy world after all, so use some imagination. Just because it is imaginative doesn't have to mean it breaks your concept of your character. And listen to what your character is telling you. If you are doing this right, that character may have grown and changed from your original concept. When I started Trey, he most decidedly was NOT going to be the Nerevarine. He was going to tell Caius to take a hike. But- it was so much more interesting to watch (and write about) his heel-dragging, whining, surly acceptance of the inevitable. In my current story, Athynae was just going to have a brief appearance, to provide some comic relief and romance. (I would appreciate restraint on the part of those who might wonder why I see romance and comic relief as being so closely related). But she is such a vivid, vibrant character that I had to give her more space in the story.

Bottom line- when you are stuck, write your way through it. If you can't think of what to write, talk your way through it. If you can't find anyone to talk to, talk to yourself. Everybody already thinks writers are weird anyway.
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Melly Angelic
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:45 pm

:banghead:

Another trick is to change the scenery. Stop trying to force your way through the stuck place in the story and go around it. What I mean by that is, think about what you are sure it is you want to happen eventually in the story. Write it down. Now think about how you can get to there from where you are. I cannot repeat often enough that you need to write down every idea you have, right when you have it. It may just be a fragment of dialogue or a bit of action, but you know it will need to be in there somewhere. NEVER assume, "Oh, it's fine. I will remember that when the time comes." You won't.


How many times have I used that trick?? It works, trust me!

Also putting ideas down right away, even though it won't happen for a while in the story. It kind of gives you a goal to write toward. :bigsmile:

Good blather, Treydog. Different things work for different people and for different times. You've said it better than I could. :spotted owl:
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Heather M
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 11:07 am

Other times, you hit a place in your writing where you aren't sure what happens next. Maybe you have written yourself into a corner.


- like ignoring the 10 chapters you have pre-written and killing off your heroine without a snowball's idea in H how to bring her back? ROFL !!!


I cannot repeat often enough that you need to write down every idea you have, right when you have it. It may just be a fragment of dialogue or a bit of action, but you know it will need to be in there somewhere. NEVER assume, "Oh, it's fine. I will remember that when the time comes." You won't.


Yes, I do this because I am notorious for having a terrible memory. And when you write them down, keep them labeled or in one file so they remain together in the same place, and name them with a clue to their content so they are easily scanned if you are looking for that idea. I hate notepad, but use it for this. Everything related to the story is labeled MJ so it all groups together in the same place. If I am stuck sometimes I scan through them to see if there is something there fertile to use. That file has saved my neck on more than one occasion. (story-wise, lol)


Sometimes, a stuck place is actually an opportunity. Example- in the original story, Trey once got stuck in a cave because he was hauling all of his books, alchemy apparatus, etc. around with him. That really happened in the game. And it was a wonderful opportunity to introduce some humor and to give some insight into the character. What would he give up? What would he keep? When you get stuck in your writing, go back to your original concept of the character and the story. This person is your creation, speaking with a voice you gave him/her/it. If you put some time into thinking about who the character is, that planning will help you find a way out of the problem.

"What would Maxical (or Teresa, or Buffy, or Rales, or Edward, etc.) do when confronted by a drunken Nord singing an obscene song?"

"How did that Khajiit get here? And why is he wearing a dress?"

In other words, do something unexpected, but in character. It is a fantasy world after all, so use some imagination. Just because it is imaginative doesn't have to mean it breaks your concept of your character. And listen to what your character is telling you. If you are doing this right, that character may have grown and changed from your original concept. When I started Trey, he most decidedly was NOT going to be the Nerevarine. He was going to tell Caius to take a hike. But- it was so much more interesting to watch (and write about) his heel-dragging, whining, surly acceptance of the inevitable. In my current story, Athynae was just going to have a brief appearance, to provide some comic relief and romance. (I would appreciate restraint on the part of those who might wonder why I see romance and comic relief as being so closely related). But she is such a vivid, vibrant character that I had to give her more space in the story.

Bottom line- when you are stuck, write your way through it. If you can't think of what to write, talk your way through it. If you can't find anyone to talk to, talk to yourself. Everybody already thinks writers are weird anyway.



Great tips - and I love the story about how Athynae evolved - you would never know her role was to be small originally in your writing, she is a powerful character - and beloved!
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Mario Alcantar
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 12:47 pm

That's really good advice, treydog. I would add that there is a certain phenomenon that is easy to misconstrue as writer's block; but is actually being temporarily burnt out, or mentally depleted. At least, I've found this to be true for me. It happens when I have too much going on "in real life" and I've written a lot recently. I might or might not be physically exhausted, but mentally I am. The best thing is to take a break for a day or two (and try to get a full night's sleep in!) and then come back. It's like approaching the "problem" all over again; you're fresh, invigorated, and most often the things that were killing your mind to deal with in your story easily work themselves out.

That said, however, mostly writer's block is just that, and your tips are 110% right. Talking something through is so valuable, even if the other person doesn't offer any advice; just arranging your ideas in a coherent, expressible manner often enough solves the problem. And writing things down...heaven knows how often that's saved me -- and how many times I've regretted not doing it!
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Davorah Katz
 
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