Honestly, I'm bias toward Raiders because of Fallout 3 and Fallout Equestria.

Yes, they have shown feelings in Fallout 4 via terminal posts but at the same time. A lot of those (not all) were back before they became Raiders, Raiders. If that makes any sense to ya...

^^;

Some are. Lots of people on these forums genuinely back Ashur, the slaver lord of the Pitt, because he is fleshed out enough, and his long-term goals are good enough that people consider them better than the alternative.

Of course slavery is wrong lol, even enslaving "bad people." Historically, it is seen as an important factor in the shift from simple hunter-gatherer's to much larger and complex civilizations if my World History course at UCLA was anything to go by. I don't like it, but it's easy to not like a lot of things in hindsight. As for the raiders. It is truly a shame Bethesda just turned them into evil killing machines without a fibre of humanity left. Maybe some were forced to be raiders or some just have second thoughts.

Aren't we basically getting that for the wasteland workshop DLC?

I'd rather make them soldiers in my legion of doom to conquer the Commonwealth! Mwahahahahaha!

Oh, sorry, you weren't supposed to hear that.

I'm thinking that is what's prompting these discussions. The "tame" raider and fight them thing. I'd like some Spartacus roleplay personally.

lol, that would be pretty cool though. I've always felt they should bring back the Slaver's Guild from Fallout 2. While I felt like a complete ass the whole way through, it was a lot of fun to play the most evil person you can imagine and the world reacting to that.

Why enslave them when I could just kill them? I mean, i don't care what they do but if they mess with me, there'll be hell to pay for them.

Re-word the question with the word "Murder" or "Torture" instead of "Enslave". See if that changes your opinion.

I'm not talking about killing in self-defense, I mean straight-up, helpless victim, murder.

Bonus question: Who gets to decide who is "good" and who's "bad"? Does being in a raider gang equal "evil"? Or is "bad" defined as "not on my side"? Some of the raider gangs are just doing what we would do to survive in the same circumstances. Others are morally questionable. But either way, once you start doing what they do, it puts you on the same level morally.

Simple answer: one of the reasons raiders are the bad guys is that they enslave people. Enslaving raiders in turn, makes you a bad guy- regardless of who you enslave.

It's wrong to enslave humans, no matter who they are. It's ok to enslave toasters though, they just need the right programming.

How bad are raiders really?

Sure they occasionally kill & kidnap, to get caps/food/water to survive. But I'd argue that most of our "good" sole survivors are far worse.

Since leaving the vault, my character has reduced the population of Boston and the surrounding areas by probably 70%. Sometimes I'd clear out a den for nothing more than a few fuses and couple of empty bottles, even though I could have easily purchased those from a vendor. I even killed a raider in a graveyard that was burying his girl, then I stripped him and his already dead girl of anything of value without a second thought (I probably even swiped the flowers & vase he had put by her grave.. cuz you know I might need that ceramic).

Then there are raider groups that are apparently threatening my settlements, for food and water. Both of which my settlements have an overabundance of. Like others have said if you listen to their conversations some of them seem like they want a way out, but don't know any other way to survive. But instead of offering them what I can spare, or offering them a place in my settlements; I head on over to their base and kill everyone there without so much as a word... and apparently I'm still considered a good guy.

Makes you wonder if some of these baddies think they're good, and feel threatened by the evil blue one.. *one*.. *one*..

lol... it's late, so please ignore me if my attempts at being funny have failed

I say there are more reasonable solutions to bring someone to justice over making them your property to own. Imprisonment or execution, for example.

If the Bad Person is likely to continue being a bad person, then for the sake of Society, the bad person needs to be confined (or banished to somewhere there are NO other people). If the Bad Person has inflicted injury and/or loss on others, he should (imho) be required to make restitution to both his victims and to the surrounding Society that he had incidentally disrupted by perpetrating his Bad deeds. That being made to make restitution while incarcerated could very easily be interpreted as "slavery".

THAT^^ said, it should be noted that the Great Wall of China was built almost entirely with convict labor. The requirement for many, many hundreds of thousands of laborers caused Chinese judges to sentence "criminals" to labor gangs for things as inconsequential as spitting on a sidewalk. Once the allure of cheap/free labor is made manifest to The Powers That Be, they tend to do some swift snowboarding down that slippery slope to cash in ASAP. For example, chain gangs in the Deep South in the 1930s (Great Depression era) where prison wardens were being enriched by hiring out "their" charges to generate revenue for the prison. (Whatever the Warden didn't keep for himself that is.)

slavery is wrong no matter what

and beside what is the definition of bad people and who is making these definitions

Yes it is wrong.

The moral question gets a lot easier when you fast forward to a hypothetical "mission complete". Everyone who acts up gets a bomb collar around their neck and sentenced to hard labour? You tell me what that sounds like. It always got messy when a single individual decided upon the worth of everyone else.

Preachery aside, sure, I'd be totally interested in a DLC featuring that. Every aspect of Wasteland life being featured is worth a DLC, if done properly.

Aren't prisoners slaves? They are criminals but earn next to nothing doing menial labors while in jail.

Slavery? It's always wrong. Doesn't matter who it is or what they did, it's wrong.

Community service on the other hand is a good way to get wrongdoers doing right and rehabilitated, assuming of course there's a chance for that. Some people are just so far gone that the only thing that'll stop them is a bullet; whether that's my bullet is of course up to them.

Not only is slavery wrong, my repeated attempts at selling Marcy Long into slavery have been unsuccessful. They keep sending her back.

Yes. There have been reformed Raiders in Fallout like Jericho and the female Atom Cat who sell power armor( Rowdy I think)

Doing evil things to evil people is still doing evil. One doing that is no better than the people "deserving" it. In fact he is worse, if he claims his actions are somehow morally justified.

That is a loaded question. Being "bad" or "evil" is a combination of multiple traits that we may all agree on as being morally and ethically wrong. Not one person gets to decide for the majority, however, it being a subjective question, a person gets to decide for himself what he feels is evil.

Evil, to me, is deriving pleasure from the pain and suffering of others -- [censored], child molestation, murder, torture, ect, are all evil acts. Some raiders in Fallout have displayed these traits, but I think it would be far-fetched to assume all raiders are like this, which is one of the reasons they need to be developed more.

As it stands right now, 30% of this forum thinks it is ok to enslave someone if they consider them "bad." It's a good thing there are laws against this in real-life. Pretty scary if you ask me.

Now that I have thought about it for a while...

Some US prisons require inmates to have jobs in the prison which pay very little (around here it is $0.17 an hour the last time I heard), which is very close to "slavery for bad people".
And, other US prisons still have "chain-gangs" which they pay the prisoners nothing for the work...which seems like "slavery for bad people" to me.

I honestly do not know how I feel about it when I add that aspect to the question.
I do know, however, that if I ever went to prison and they told me I have to work some chain-gang I would tell them to "shove it"...I would gladly stay in solitary confinement, or serve extra years before I let them treat me like a slave.

Something something something become the monster.

The entire world was built by forced labor the first time around...why would it be any different in Fallout?