Say you're playing FO4 in hardcoe mode, and there is much less food lying about than there is in NV where food is very plentiful. Would it be bad karma to steal food from others if you'll otherwise starve?

It should definitely be considered bad as taking things that aren't yours is wrong regardless of if your life depends on it or not, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it to save yourself.

I kind of thought Karma was a stupid function in a game like this. If I steal food without anybody noticing, why does it make the people of the world hate me more? Is there a big protectron in the sky keeping score? Even if there was, would he be giving Three Dog updates on my progress?

I don't think Beth is going to have it, unfortunately.

That's one of the reasons why I don't like Karma... often it's hard to make a difference between good and evil. And most 'evil people' thing they do good things and the others are evil...

I don't think they should get rid of karma, just don't have stealing affect karma.

I voted the last option. What if they had an option to ask for the food first? We get to be try our (speech) skill at being beggars and if that didn't work, we could be (sneak) thieves.

Stealing is never wrong! It's fun!

Depends on who you're stealing it from really. From a restaurant or a shop that imports tons of food to sell? No. It's not wrong to steal from them in order to just survive, they can make it on their own just fine without that little meal you stole. But you steal water from another traveller at gunpoint in the desert? That's wrong. You steal food from other survivors in a zombie apocalypse when food gets scarce? That's wrong. If you reduce someone else's chances of survival out of pure selfishness then there is no rationalization to justify what you've done, you're evil.

So it depends on who you steal food from. Stealing from the wealthy in order to just survive I wouldn't say is too wrong. You should try to find another way than to resort to theft but whatever. But stealing from someone in the same shoes as you or worse is not justified at all. Unless you know for certain that the other person is an evil piece of [censored] that is. Cause if you were to steal from a starving Hannibal Lecter then yknow, [censored] him.

well its not like food is ever that rare that you'd be forced into raiding a community. I also suppose that if its that rare then you're stealing it from someone that needs it just as badly as you do, which is wrong...but ya gotta do what you gotta do

Stealing is stealing, it does not matter who you take it from.

In your example with the restaurant you could instead work for them and get paid in food They had to work hard to get the food so there is no justification to steal it from them.

Better to pimp your ass on the street and be an honest prosttute rather than a thief.

It's not that easy to get a job... really. And don except that any restaurant would let you work for something to eat... It's not that easy in the world... And I personally don't think it's better to be forced into prostitution is better than stealing...

Ah, this is an age old question.

If it was a matter of life and death, it may be wrong, yes. But very few in life go through it with a clean conscience.

So said he to the mob, "Let anyone of you who is without sin, cast the first stone." And none could find it in them to do so.

What is murder to some, is justice to another.

What is normal for the spider, is chaos to the fly.

in a place like the wasteland you do what you got to do to survive. in the words of batman" die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villan"

...Harvey Dent said that, no Batman. Batman quoted the line from Dent, which he said at a conference dinner earlier in the movie.

Specifically the line is "You either die the hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

either way it still stands

Well, that depends. People are not avocado's with a grade of ripeness and rotting. We all do things that are questionable, but a few questionable acts in the name of survival-- stealing food so as to not starve...Killing someone because they are/may kill you...etc etc, do not equate a villain or a corrupt person. By Wasteland terms? That's an average joe.

It also depends upon what other resources you have.

But I'd argue that it's both simpler and more generally correct that it's 'evil'/'wrong' to steal food, even in order to survive. There are other options that should be preferred, and just getting some 'evil karma' shouldn't be a big deal.

(I'd also argue that killing someone should always give bad karma, no matter if they're a good or a bad person; helping other people in a selfless way should be what gives good karma)

No. To be honest I'd probably look the other way if I saw someone down on his/her luck or homeless snatch a bottle of water or some food. Not cool with people stealing luxuries like electronics though.

Although if it's armed robbery or they beat the [censored] out of someone and took their food or water I'd be against it.

What's up with all the sudden morality questions like owning androids, stealing, and enslaving?

Ah. None of the three option really cover my position, which would be summed up by 'from who?'

If I steal food from a child to survive, and that child will die as a result... yeah. that's wrong. If I steal food from anyone who is helpless, or weaker than me, that's wrong. I might just as well go around killing anybody who might perhaps, possibly, one day be a danger to me, on the basis that it's 'me or them'.

Stealing from those who have more than they need to survive, in order to survive... yeah, that's fine. Stealing from those who I know mean me harm, that's ok too.

Of course, whether I'm prepared to die for my morals is another question. Luckily this is just a game, so all my morals cost me is (even in hardcoe mode) starting over and trying to play smarter .

In real life... eh. Like most (all?) people on these forums I live in one of the rich countries of the world. In global terms, I am obscenely rich (in local terms, just kinda getting along sorta comfortably). In my case, without a technologically advanced and well funded healthcare system, I will die. And I'm hardly lobbying my government to slash national welfare and give the money to poorer countries. So... I'm kinda guilty of stealing to stay alive as it is.

Morality in games is cheap .

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Isn't it nice to have a game where asking questions like this is even possible or relevant? Doesn't raise it into the realms of high art, but it nudges it up a notch or two from 'pap' .