Thanks for the tip, will index when all images are up later... For now also uploaded a 7zip - Wrye Bash Guide Complete JPGs, in the optional files
The archive is split into two folders, Basics set and Advanced set.

A couple things about the new tutorial.

1. I dunno about your version of 7zip or how you have it configured, but I have no problems to zip just folders. In fact, I also have an Add to "XXX.7z" menu item, which bypasses the 7zip window from even coming up.

2. The recommend standard for doc files is to place them in their own sub-package named 00 Docs unless you are making a simple BAIN. If there several doc files, they should go in a subfolder of the docs folder, so they would go in Data/Docs/Mod X/*.*
This allows people to opt not to install the docs for a particular mod. Often the docs are just install instructions, which are of no use once the mod is already installed.

3. As far as I know, Wrye Bash is supposed to rename any file that is named just Readme.* (txt only maybe) so that the filename will include the mod name. I've never investigated if it does this or not, but I'm quite sure it's mentioned in the Bash docs. It's better practice to just use a unique subfolder for each mods documentation as mentioned in #2. This not only prevents any possible conflicts but also keeps all the related docs files grouped together instead of lost in a sea of other doc files.

4. You missed a step between slide 2 and 3 in the Advanced Installer Creation. The user needs to examine the unzipped package, read the docs and identify which files are optional and/or exclusive, if any. You have assumed that people already know how the UOP is packaged and what it contains.

Will look into it, but I have seen other members mention the same problem so out of the box I presume this is the default behaviour (I have the same behaviour with WinRAR too) :blush2: Concur - Must have been problems with previous versions, just archiving folders works for me too now with WinRAR 3.93 full version and 7Zip 9.17 beta - @ Psymon if you are reading, I think you mention this old behaviour when archiving somewhere too, seems it has been fixed along the way with newer releases.



Did not know that :blush2: - But, with newcomers to BAIN, having a ReadMe in the root of the folder will be the first thing they see if they have extracted it instead of just throwing it into Bash Installers - And my train of thought is ( hopefully they will read that, ahem ) they will realise they did not need to extract it in the first instance. I should be recommending the standard though so will also have a look at presentation of this. With confirmation the archiving problem is no-longer an issue - Implemented note 2 on one of the screens (word for word if thats okay with you?)(When updated have a look at picture 11 in the first part of the Advanced guide)



Ah yes, supposed to, I have not checked recently but many a readme has been overwritten for me.... will un-install a few, delete docs and see what happens next time round :goodjob: Seems reliable now adopted.



Good point, will amend. Done Thanks Gaticus, and that was pretty fast feedback - Multi-quoted above so I can use at as a strikethrough scratchboard to-do list

Basics Guide PDF now at MkV - Just a bit of tidying up, new monkey (actually wasn't sure about using the Wrye Monkey image manip for the Title image, I dont think I would be able to get permission for that now.... sooo made my own monkey, reminiscent of the old, but with intelligent looking open eyes reflecting hope that understanding will blossom)

And its a bit bigger - still getting used to making PDFs, the last couple went a bit fuzzy on some pictures depending on page zoom, this one uses lossless pdf compression so the end user gets a clearer picture (thats the theory anyway). When I open it using SumatraPDF and zoom option Fit Width on a widescreen resolution, it looks good now.

Its also an investment, when I get too old to remember how to use Wrye Bash functions I was using yesterday... I will be able to read it too

Update 29 Oct 2010 @14:24 - Basics Guide PDF MkV (a little less rough around the edges, using lossless PDF compression for better end user quality), Wrye Bash Installers Advanced Guide PDF - Mark III (same treatment as Basics Guide) Uploaded. Also added Complete Guide (JPGs) MkIII - All files now considered final(ish)

Hi Alternity!

I'd suggest you to add

1. When rebuilding Patch, warning against checking Mayu's Skeleton under Tweak Actors - keeping it active can cause systematic CTDs on start (did to me and others)

2. After Modchecking, last step should be click TES4LODgen - for who has installed it, but I wonder why one shouldn't

Hope this helps, and props again for your damn useful guide!

Not sure about the mayus skeleton thing never used it (doesn't that have something to do with also using Deadly Reflex?), and already covered Tweaks are the users choice soooo... leaving it for now...

However, Point 2 - I know just the place for that, good idea and if used should be in the flow of basics usage there ... Thank you. Its not too far back in the images either for slotting in and re-uploading

Second thoughts, I dont think I will be adding TES4Lodgen, I do use it myself ... marvellous tool, but I could set a trend here and veer away from it just being a Basics Guide. Why not include a sub topic for Gnu Image Manipulation Programme etc etc.

There are a lot of topics could be expanded on, but then it would become a Pictorial version of the Wrye Bash.html file and defeat the object of easing users in. So, reverting that idea, though it was good.. nearly had me, but nah, if people use VWD they will then be venturing into more complex topics and will already have the requisite attention span to find out for themselves - Unless they got lost in the shiny nexus woods and happened across it, such randomness is not my concern , people randomly coming across the Wrye Bash Guide and understanding it easier without being swamped with info.. is.

Edit: Which reminds me that Description is getting a bit yawnsome

Does 7zip 9.17 beta work okay with WB? I thought I read it was one of the issues with the newer WB and people were having to go back to the non-beta version. I admit I didn't follow that part too closely since I don't use BAIN. I had some issues getting the 9 betas working under Win 7, but I think I'll try again. I am getting so tired of "feature not implemented"...

Cant remember the previous version, think it was 915 that was included with Wrye bash, with v290 Wrye bash it has 917.

But I dont think the problem was with 7zip itself, it was those recent buggy versions of Wrye bash 288 and 289 which complicated things. I had been using 917 7zip installer, and found at one point with one of the versions of Wrye bash, if I replaced the 7zip exe and dll in the Wrye bash installation with a copy from my program files, I got past some of the problems being experienced... since installing WB 290 no problems. The only problem remaining for some I think has been the recurring pidfile.tmp problem in mopy no problems here either on the Win 7 laptop or the desktop running XP.

Edit: Ooh forgot to mention, if you do install the 7zip beta, after install go to c:\program files\7zip\ in there is a 7zFM.exe (File manager), right click it and run as admin, now when it opens you can go into its Tools/Options menu, and set file associations - Without running as admin and depending on your SecPol/UAC you might not be able to set them.

The only other thing I do is when installing 7zip, also run the installer as admin - Just dont download a pretender

http://www.7-zip.org/

HISTORY of the 7-Zip
--------------------

9.17 beta 2010-10-04
-------------------------
- Disk fragmentation problem for ZIP archives created by 7-Zip was fixed.


9.16 beta 2010-09-08
-------------------------
- 7-Zip now supports files that are larger than 8 GB in TAR archives.
- NSIS support was improved.
- Some bugs were fixed.
- New localizations: Hindi, Gujarati, Sanskrit.


9.15 beta 2010-06-20
-------------------------
- Some bugs were fixed.
- New localization: Tatar.

9.17b works fine with Bash.

Bash really doesn't even influence how 7zip works, so as long as 7zip works itself (whatever version), there should be no problems with Bash.
All bash does is call on 7zip as if it were at the command line. The same as you would do yourself from cmd.exe
The issue was something to do with a mismatched file or something. Not quite sure what, but it's been fixed anyway.

Alt3rn1ty:
Good call. Your tutorial is about getting a foot forward with Bash, not about getting from newb to guru
I would avoid any discussion about things like optimization, merging plugins etc.
The more direct and succinct your tutorial is, the more effective it will be.
This is why I suggested before not to offer any information the reader doesn't need to know. In fact, I would not even offer any alternatives to your instructions.
Being newbie users, it is sufficient to hold their hand step by step.
You: "do this, then do this"
Reader: "but what about X or Y?"
You: "Nevermind that for now, just do what I showed you."
When the reader has mastered the basics, then they can come back and question things or seek more advanced information elsewhere. Or you may choose to followup with an additional guide.

The other thing I should have mentioned is that I would like to run the 64 bit version under Win 7 Got it installed, we'll see how it goes. I suspect it won't work with the 64 bit version, but I haven't tried it yet...



Gaticus, if you've gotten this to work, could you tell me how?

Bash will work fine on 64-bit systems. Just keep in mind that it will actually run in 32-bit compatibility mode. Which is no big deal, but you need to be sure you get the 32-bit python pkgs if you don't use Wrye Python.



Hah
Well as a Web Designer, I will always help my clients to get their website setup at no charge, but if they are asking for my expertise I will tell them they need to pay for my consultation or to train them. Their questions are rarely important enough for them to pay me. They would much rather just pay me to do the work for them

When I was a teacher, if a student would ask a question that is beyond the scope of what I'm currently teaching them, I would tell them to try to find out on their own and point them in the right direction. And when they do find out, they can present their findings to the rest of the class. Not many cared enough to find out on their own and very few wanted to stand in front of the class.

I also enjoy helping people in my free time and often they just don't want to listen to what I'm trying to teach. They are full of questions and unwilling to pay attention (especially trying to teach someone programming, guh! Like it's not confusing enough already). I just tell them to talk to me again when they are ready to appreciate my time and effort. Until then, I can't afford to waste my time trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

One of my favorite sayings is 'Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime'. I don't like to give anybody fish.
This also helps to weed out the lazy buggers who just want to pick my brain, since they can't be bothered to find answers for themselves, even when I show them where to look.

I don't mind at all, you are welcome to use any advice I offer. I don't care about credit or anything.
You may want to correct the grammar though
"If there several..." should be "If there are several..."

Thank you ... Grammar adjusted for next update (Copy pasta applied, mea culpa)

Going to leave the next update for a while, bit of polish here and there first, and I dont think there's much needs done now - Unless Wrye bash has any major changes in functionality (unlikely) in the future this is just about done.

Edit: Andalaybay, question for yourself - I have been trying to incorporate Bookmarks, but after an Export to PDF from Open Office they seem to get lost in transition... any tips?

One further change - Picture 7 of the last tutorial, it was missing the picture number which was annoying me but decided to spruce up the information a bit there too....
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3334811WB-Make-Create7.jpg

I don't know I've only done the most rudimentary of exports. I notice that there is an option to export bookmarks in the pdf export dialog.

The help for this says:


To me, that almost sounds contradictory. On the one hand they say you can export Writer bookmarks, which you can create anywhere. Then they say that bookmarks are created for all outline paragraphs and the T of C. Perhaps you could try turning on outline numbering and creating a T of C and see if that works? Otherwise I'd be inclined to post a question on OO's support forums.

Thank you, I will spend a bit of time with this (though not immediately, my better half and I will be incognito merging with the wildlife this time of year, and the kids fun tomorrow (and a highly anticipated mod late tomorrow ))

It would add the finishing touches though so users can navigate the PDFs better if they want to go back/forth, so thats my next job.

Ah, so you will look in RL like your avatar - or do you already?

I think the bookmarks would be a great idea. Just got to get OO to cooperate.

Actually I have just thought of a happy medium in this regard - Just enabled User Uploaded Images, for me to authorise display of - So users can add screenshot tips to expand on subjects.

Going as a zombie, but the general consensus is I dont need much make-up to achieve the aim

Well 2 days later and people are still seeing remnants of green in my hair ... unless... :ahhh:

Update, but only a tiny insignificant one as far as the user is concerned - I re-did both PDFs, that picture 7 from Installer Creation has been incorporated, along with a bit of polish here and there. I think I have the picture size just about right on each screen, a bit more de-fuzzing effort has gone into it, and also realised I can have the PDFs open automatically in Fit Width, which at current screen sizes is only chopped off slightly at the bottom on a laptop widescreen - So it should look better on a normal screen res'

Bookmarks are driving me batty however, as a result I have a better setup for going back a few paces and re-doing all from various stages... including Table of Contents/Layouts/Various custom styles and headings.... Learned how to apply a different page style and auto-renumber pages from that point starting at zero, so the first image of section two of a PDF for instance is referred to as Page 1 tying in with picture 1 - But, none of that is ending up in the finished item, it goes the way of the bookmarks, lost in translation. I am missing a trick somewhere in the various approaches tried so far, and have about thirty browser bookmarks to online trouble-shooting of the same problem only the OO Ninjas out there seem to make sense of, "Oh you dont need to do it that way, remember the Outline dialogue? see it all makes perfect sense now" ... OReeeaaally!. I notice some of them are quite old (posts on the subject that is) and wonder if versions of OO since have a new way of exporting what is referred to as bookmarks for the transition to PDFs ... Anyway, not giving up on bookmarks, its got my mole sense tingling, , in a strange way, enjoying this.

Is that, is that sirens I hear? :bolt:

So, where's the pics? (referring to the zombie) Green colour is normal

You know, I just thought of a format that might be better than pdf - html. :bolt: Not great for printing, but most folks probably wouldn't want to print something that's all pictures anyway... Version 3 and onwards of OO made major changes to the way T of C works, so that might be part of the issue if you're not on 3.2 +.

Added a new pic to the User Uploaded images, leading the way for user added tips - Thanks to Jedi21ita idea prompting this.

Left the User Uploaded images to be authorised by me, hopefully I won't get pictures of donkeys in compromising situations etc :rolleyes: though thats probably an element which is par for the course on nexus

No further updates yet, still cant get bookmarks to go across but pdf readers allow you to jump to a page anyway for the couple of references to earlier parts of the guides, it would be nicer with bookmarks but I will probably find it by accident sometime.

I am now going to leave this for a while, there are a couple of changes I want to make better for beginners (just flow related and as Gaticus mentioned not to use information they dont need theres a bit of sprucing up can be done in that department, expanding on steps a little). And maybe at a later date will add further creating sections.

Biggest thing I want to change is the amount of plugins I am presenting users with that I am using at the time of creating the screenshots, particularly for the Basics intro to installers... I just have to get round to un-installing everything for that purpose. For the advanced guide, I think I will leave them showing just as an example of all that is possible.

For now though going to leave as is and stop confusing users with updates in such a short period of time, I think at the moment the whole thing achieves the aim - I want to open up endorsemants for feedback, probably prompting the inevitable how do I install Wrye Bash questions... but it might be useful for feedback from the crowd ... I just cant seem to re-enable endorsemants on tesnexus right now.