yes too I would think this would be a non-latin based charset issue... what is the actual name of that file? (and could you upload that individual file and link to it; small chance that I'll be able to fix Bash to be able to read that charset).

installer lag is mainly due to a) the amount/size of files in your oblivion/data dir and your bash installers dir... 278 may help (updated the 7z stuff... haven't yet speed tested but could increase the speed (or could decrease it in which case I'll revert it).
C.Names... coming soon to a bashed patch near you! (at least I think it should be simple to code and will make it into 278... working on the last hard segment of my list of things for 278; but that should be simple and easy so)

Python is much a ) easier to code b ) nicer to read c ) users can easily change their copy without reverse engineering, decompiling and all that fun stuff d ) used in many high quality applications - including for example Brazil's government designed medical imaging software for use with CTs and stuff, PyFFI, etc .etc.
what that error code there means is that on of the data files is somewhat corrupted ... easily fixed by deleting my documents/my games/oblivion/bashsettings.dat (or similar based on your installation/windows version). Also that version you are using is fairly old... can't tell exactly but I'd guess in the 160-7 range... by the line number for initsettings.

Python, .Net Framework, Java and the like introduce an unnecesary performance overhead on the computer where they are installed. No matter how streamlined the coding language is, it never will be as good as a native coded program, because they require a third party command interpreter that's not originally part of the OS. I already used programs coded for Python and they regularly produced performance issues, like processor utilization spikes and memory leaks. In the case of Wrye, changing anything in the Python install would also endanger programs like Blender, which also uses the same language, so any update in either of them is a lottery to see which one could be rendered unoperative. Sadly, I have to keep trying because there's no other program out there that has the same functions as Wrye. Otherwise, I would delete everything related to it, as I did before with the Python software I had. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a shot.

Something -extremely- weird just happened.

I was experiencing pretty often CTDs, and they always seem to happen once every couple of power attacks. So I thought it must be something related to Deadly Reflex. I disabled every mod related to it, including every patch referring to it, and I loaded my game. I was in total shock when not even that I could still shield bash, but I could still decapitate. With the Deadly Reflex mod disabled!

After watching in awe how the mod worked perfectly with the esps disabled, I tried to rebuild the bashed patch with the disabled Deadly Reflex esps. Tested the game with the new bashed patch and Deadly Reflex disabled, everything was ok, tested the game with the new bashed patch and Deadly Reflex enabled, everything was ok again.

I am puzzled, is it normal for the bashed patch to contain all the code from deadly reflex (at least, the decapitation and PC/NPC shield bashing, I only got to see those in the few minutes I played) from just rebuilding it?

Since Wrye Bash doesn't have to be running when Oblivion is running, and I can't see people doing a lot of intensive things while using Wrye Bash, I have no idea how this could be an issue.

And since it's perfectly possible to have a version of Python installed just for WB and have another installation for Blender or any of a dozen other free programs, I don't think you have much of a complaint.

"People have more powerful Pcs these days, bloat shouldn't be an issue" looks like a popular trend with software these days.



Absurd. I wont babysit several instances of the same crappy sofware. I'm a basic Pc user, but I try to control what programs are installed on my computer.

Heh, don't take it wrong, I don't want to start an argument. It's just frustration because I only need Wrye to make a face exchange between the game and the Construction Set, and vice-versa. None of the other functions of this utility interest me. It's a nice program, from what I saw when it was working.

At one time this may well have been true. For certain badly written programs, it may still be true. For certain badly executed languages, it may also still be true.

Bash is not one of those badly written programs. Python is not one of those badly executed languages. Python does nothing at all on the PC when you're not using something that needs it. Bash only takes up resources while the program is open, and it doesn't need to be open while you're playing.

You'd probably also be a bit surprised to find that a number of these C++ programs out there require a 3rd party module - the VC++ Runtime Library. Last I checked this isn't native to Windows XP and must be installed separately. That might have changed in Vista/7 but then your argument means that M$ just threw bloatware into the OS as a native application. I for one would be far more upset about that than I would about a Python interpreter that just sits and does nothing.

Somewhat related too, a large portion of web applications (like this very forum) rely on PHP which is a 3rd party language interpreter run through the web server program. This is far more common than you might think, and entirely normal.

Wheee.. insert happy dance here :dance:

I realize this is not an insignificant change, and there's very little likelihood of it being done for 278 . . . but my biggest pet peeve with Bash is one that I don't see mentioned very often.

As you all know, when installing a Bain package, you can select which subpackages and esps to activate and which to leave deactivated. This is great. However, internally it seems that Bash only tracks the order of these, rather than their names. This means that if you add a new subpackage in the middle, the activation states of all the subpackages after it are wrong, and no error or warning is given.

This is hard to describe, and I think it probably doesn't affect everyone (since lots of people don't use Bain at all, or only use simple packages). I think it will be clearer with an example. A lot of my Bain packages have 40 or 50 subpackages, but I'll make up a relatively simple one for the sake of argument. Say I have made a FooBarBaz-Bain.7z package that looks like this:

[X] 00 Foo Core[X] 10 Foo Recommended Addons[ ] 20 Bar Option A[X] 20 Bar Option B[ ] 20 Bar Option C[X] 30 FooBar Compatibility Patch[ ] 40 Baz

As you can see, I have chosen to install the core of the Foo mod, along with a recommended add-on for it, and I have chosen Option B out of three conflicting possibilities for the Bar mod. I have also installed a compatibility patch for the two mods, but have chosen not to install the Baz mod at this time (although I included it in the FooBarBaz Bain package because it is complementary to the other two mods and I may want to add it at some point). All is well.

Now, the author of Foo updates the mod by adding a new optional .esp file that changes some settings and comes with some associated meshes and textures (which should be overwritten by the meshes and textures in the FooBar Compatibility patch, since I'm using both Foo and Bar). It's not required, so it shouldn't go in Core, but it comes with a new esp and is not necessarily recommended. Let's call this option FooFizz. The logical thing would be to create a new subpackage for this, since I may want it, or may not, and I may want to be able to remove it after installing it. So I add a new subpackage called "11 FooFizz Optional Addon" -- the numbering I have chosen will place this in the correct spot relative to the others. The "Sub-Packages" window of the Bash Installer tab should now look like this:

[X] 00 Foo Core[X] 10 Foo Recommended Addons[ ] 11 FooFizz Optional Addon[ ] 20 Bar Option A[X] 20 Bar Option B[ ] 20 Bar Option C[X] 30 FooBar Compatibility Patch[ ] 40 Baz

Instead, because Bash only keeps track of the order of the subpackages, rather than their names, what will actually happen is that the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 6th subpackages will be active, even though some of these are different than than they were before adding the FooFizz subpackage. So, it will look like this:

[X] 00 Foo Core[X] 10 Foo Recommended Addons[ ] 11 FooFizz Optional Addon[X] 20 Bar Option A[ ] 20 Bar Option B[X] 20 Bar Option C[ ] 30 FooBar Compatibility Patch[ ] 40 Baz

If I were then just to activate the Optional Addon without bothering to look at the rest of the package, I would be in real trouble -- Option A is now selected rather than Option B and the Compatibility Patch would no longer be installed.

In this case, it's not too hard to figure out, since they're aren't that many subpackages to deal with. But this behavior is unintuitive (people expect that adding a new subpackage won't affect the activation states of other unrelated subpackages later in order) and it becomes very difficult to keep track of with larger Bain packages.

Exactly the same problem applies to the "Esp/m Filter" window as well -- which ones are filtered depends only on their order, not on their names.

I have never looked at Bash's code, but I'm assuming it must be storing the activation state in a list/array . . . and I think it really ought to be stored in a dictionary keyed on the name of the subpackage/esp (at first I thought it should be keyed on a hash of the subpackage, but that doesn't really make sense -- a subpackage should maintain its activation state even if you add a new file to it, as long as its name doesn't change).

Was this clear? I'm sorry the post is so long . . . I was having trouble explaining it concisely.

Do I have to put it there manually or should it already be there? I am not seeing it and it is not showing up in a search.

It won't exist until you switch to the Installers Tab in Wrye Bash. First time you do so, it should ask you if you want to activate the Installer function. When you say yes, it should create those directories.

I did that, but it still didn't show up. I am currently trying to run Bash as an admin but I can't find the option for that. I guess the same problem that Bash has with Windows Vista is in Windows 7 as well, the 'Program Files' folder is protected so Windows won't let Bash make a folder there.

You can specify the installers location by using the INI file. Copy bash_default.ini (in the Oblivion\Mopy folder) to bash.ini and set sOblivionMods to point at another folder on your system.

Wrye bash is good software, and I find it faster at starting-up and at handling a large amount of files than OBMM which is written in native code. So your complaint about interpreted languages is ridiculous.

Your other complaints are also absurd. Oblivion relies on a lot of third-party software such as facegen, speedtree, and a bunch of other libraries, and you don't seem to be complaining about them. It also includes its own "crappy" script language interpreter, and you don't run around screaming about it. Why? Because it's all bundled and you don't need to worry about installing it separately.

OMG OMG, maybe you also have Fallout 3 installed, and so there are "several instances of the same crappy software" facegen and speedtree on your hard drive, and you never thought about it! Delete them now!

Wrye Bash could perfectly bundle python and its other required python libraries, making a package such as http://portablepython.com/wiki/PortablePython1.1Py2.5.4. It would be hidden in a subdirectory and most people wouldn't even know it's written in python: they'd just unzip and double-click a shortcut. But it leaves that work to the user, just as Oblivion could have required users to install Facegen, Speedtree (assuming those two were free), the latest DirectX, the latest VisualC++ redistributable, etc., themselves. If it wasn't a commercial game. Since Wrye Bash is 100% free, I think that little extra effort on your part is not asking for too much.

one has to know and be able to distinguish between something which just invade windows everywhere (aka .NET ... which even invites himself in firefox without your consent ...)
and something which will only be around for when you need it ...

another solution if you wanted to really keep your computer THAT clean, would be to use virtual machines...
furthermore wrye bash was never meant for the faint of heart so maybe if you're a "basic pc user" you should just refrain from using it


in any case this discussion goes nowhere really since wrye bash wouldn't be what it is now if it were not for python which allows a bunch of people to easily look at the code, make corrections as necessary

Wyre Bash just won't open up for me, I press teh shortcut the installer put on my desktop and it doesn't load for shizzel.

I downloaded Phyton and the only option I've got to get some sorta action out of this is to right clicka dn press "edit with idle"

And that just seems way wrong.

Any help?

New bug found (Bash 277): if you choose Export Scripts and then Cancel, the program freezes.

hit F5 in Idle and it'll give you a bug report or use cmd prompt to launch it and will giv eyou a bug report as to what is wrong - you should just double click wrye bash launcher.pyw and bash starts up.


oh no that I can probably fix this version. EDIT:Fixed!
Pacific Morrowind

C.Names is in (took 15 minutes including testing)


very clear... makes sense... definitely right that won't be in 278, also that I've never seen this mentioned before.
I am not yet very clear on all the BAIN Code; I'll look into it.
Pacific Morrowind

Just to verify what CardTrick wrote.

Yes I see that behavior with BAIN all the time and have gotten so used to it that I never thought of requesting a change to it.

Very much it does this - tracks placement order not name of subpackages and esm/esp.

Would be chaotic though if the name of a subpackage changed.

Newbie question:

How can I bash Cobl Races and NOT have the hair from that mod? Same with Blood And Mud? Or is this not possible?

No, you should use the original TNR if you don't want the hair.

I've come to the point where I no longer can just play around in Wyre bash. Now a mod forces me to understand some part of what i've been trying to learn.

I want Roberts male Body replacer to function with The Race balancing Project, I tried this and well the hidden elves and all the other new races do show up in roberts bodies, however without any color... just white skin, hair and different shadings gone missing.

What is it that I need to do, and how do I do this in a simple manner.

I don't think it would be chaotic (assuming I can fix the problem); just deselect - which seems more logical at least... unless of course I make it another use for packageinfo.txt and if the name in there is the same... well I'll see what I can code up... BAIN is still my weakest knowledge area of Bash's code.
@@Crowgrim: I don't know RMB at all... I would guesss you would need texture replacers for those races that are not designed for RMB/already included in RMB.
Pacific Morrowind

You're awesome! :tops:

By the way, since I'm using Bash a lot these times around, I've been thinking of some more features (don't kill me!!!). Feel free to ignore them, or add them to your very very very long-term to-do list, but at least they'll be here for the record.

- The mods that I fear installing the most are usually those that require a special uninstall (run a script or something), otherwise they mess up your game to varying degrees. When I have a few of those installed, I end up forgetting which mods need this special treatment, and problems follow soon afterwards when I want to uninstall some stuff. So the feature: I want to ask Wrye Bash to warn me when I try to deactivate certain esps/esms. It could be with a dialog box, or by coloring the mod differently if I uncheck it. I'd like to be able to enter some comments when I flag the mod like this, to remind me later why I did so. Lastly, it should be possible to flag a BAIN package like this, which would result in any esps/esms installed from this package now or in the future to receive that same flag, and the comments that go with it.

- Reset prices: there's a problem with mods like Living Economy - Items and Enhanced Economy. When they change the price of an item, it's stored in the savegame, and based on what TheNiceOne told me, if you later install a different mod that's supposed to change that item's price, it will have no effect. Could we add a new Wrye Bash function that goes through a savegame and either 1) erase those price entries or 2) at least apply the correct prices based on your currently active mods ?

I have a question that goes with this last suggestion: how is the priced stored in the save file? Even if the format is different from esps, it seems that ess files store whole records, so when you change the price of an item, is the price stored alone, or together with all of the item's characteristics? So if Enhanced Economy changes the price of Steel Helmet, will any further attempts by mods to change Steel Helmet's other stats such as armor value be overwritten by the savegame?

It would be nice to add the integration of "http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28223" with "Wrye Bash"....? If this course is not too difficult.