[RELZ] Wrye Bash -- Thead 57

Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:49 am

guppgupp, it's probably fine. Technically, the names didn't get corrupted when you had the csv files enabled...they just got renamed to something you didn't want.

Warning, mega post below. Proceed with caution.

Let me go through each patch option. Please note, when I say that it should be checked, that only applies if there are items on the right side as well (except for one patch option which is detailed below).

Alias Mod Names
  • Should you check it? Not normally.
  • What does it do? If a file has been renamed, it allows patch options that use the original file name to know that it needs to use the new file name instead.
  • When does the user need it? If for instance, you rename Oscuros_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp to OOO.esp (for whatever reason), you'll need this option so that Bash knows that OOO.esp is really Oscuros_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp.


Merge Patches
  • Should you check it? Yes. Unless you need it, it won't help you, but it also doesn't hurt to have it active.
  • What does it do? It copies mods into the Bashed Patch so that they don't have to be active.
  • When does the user need it? If you're running out of space in your load order (Oblivion can only handle 255 mods at a time) this can merge some mods into the Bashed Patch so that you have more space. Some mods have to be merged to work properly (filter mods, Item Interchange), but this should be noted in the mod's readme.
  • When does a modder need it? If you're creating a filter or item interchange type mod. See the readme for details.


Replace Form IDs
  • Should you check it? No. This is an advanced option. If you need it, you'll know it (or be instructed to use it).
  • What does it do? It replaces a set of formIDs with another set of formIDs defined by a csv file.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to replace all usage of one item for another. For instance, P1DCandles replaces all static, non-movable candles with candles that can be picked up, moved around, stolen, etc. It only works for Oblivion.esm though. This option allows P1DCandles to work for all mods (assuming you have the original mod installed).
  • When does a modder need it? If you're systematically replacing a formID with another, this will do the work for you. It also works across all mods the user has.


Import Actors
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor aggression, confidence, energy level, responsibility, services, training skill, or training level you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.AIData'.
    • Actor skills (armorer, athletics, etc), health, attributes (strength, speed, etc) you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Stats'.
    • Actor base spell, fatigue, barter gold, level, calc min, calc max, IsBiped, six, IsEssential, IsWeaponAndShield, IsRespawn, IsSwims, IsFlies, IsWalks, IsAutoCalc, IsPCLevelOffset, IsNoLowLevel, IsNoBloodSpray, IsNoBloodDecal, IsNoHead, IsNoRightArm, IsNoLeftArm, IsNoCombatInWater, IsNoShadow IsNoRumors, IsSummonable, IsNoPersuasion, IsCanCorpseCheck you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.ACBS'.
    • NPC class you need to tag the mod with 'NPC.Class'.
    • NPC race you need to tag the mod with 'NPC.Race'.
    • Actor combat style you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.CombatStyle'.
    • Creature blood spray path, blood decal path you need to tag the mod with 'Creatures.Blood'.
    • Actor model path, bound radius, modt you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Skeleton'.


Import Actors: AIPackages
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures AI Packages and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This merges the AI Packages so that they are all present from all tagged mods.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor AI Packages you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.AIPackages'. If you're re-adding an AI Package that was previously removed, you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.AIPackagesForceAdd' as well.


Import Actors: Animations
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures animations and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This merges the animations so that they are all present from all tagged mods.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor animations you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Anims'.


Import Actors: Death Items
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures death items (items that are added to the NPC / Creature only when it dies) and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor Death Items you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.DeathItem'.


Import Actors: Spells
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you add or remove an actor's spell and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Spells'. If you're re-adding a spell that was previously removed, you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.SpellsForceAdd' as well.


Import Cells
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to cells (the areas your character can enter) and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same cell. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Cell climate, or IsBehaveLikeExterior you need to tag the mod with 'C.Climate'.
    • Cell music type you need to tag the mod with 'C.Music'.
    • Cell name you need to tag the mod with 'C.Name'.
    • Cell owner, rank, global variable, or IsPublicPlace you need to tag the mod with 'C.Owner'.
    • Cell water, water height, IsHasWater you need to tag the mod with 'C.Water'.
    • Cell ambient, directional, or fog lighting you need to tag the mod with 'C.Light'.
    • Cell flags not mentioned above you need to tag the mod with 'C.RecordFlags'. Use with care, it also overrides the above flags.


Import Factions
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the factions that an NPC / Creature belongs to and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Adding a faction, removing a faction, or changing the actor's rank in a faction you need to tag the mod with 'Factions'.


Import Graphics
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever mod graphics you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the graphics of the game. This ensures that the graphics from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same graphics.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the graphics of the game, and you want those graphics to always be used even if another mod changes the graphics to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Graphics':
    • Birthsign icon path
    • Loading Screen icon path
    • Class icon path
    • Land texture icon path
    • Region icon path
    • Activator model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Door model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Flora model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Furniture model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Grass model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Static model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Potion/Poison icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Ammo icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Alchemical Apparatus icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Book icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Ingredient icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Key icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Light icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Misc icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Sigil Stone icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Soul Gem icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Weapon icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Tree icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Armor or Clothing male body (model path, bound radius, or modt), male world, male icon path, female body, female world, female icon path, or flags (IsHead, IsHair, etc)
    • Creature body parts or nift
    • Magic Effect icon path, model path, bound radius, modt, effect shader, enchant effect or light
    • Almost anything in an Effect Shader


Import Inventory
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the items that an NPC / Creature / Container start with and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature / Container. This merges all these changes.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you add, remove, or change the count of an item in an NPC / Creature / Container and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Invent'.


Import NPC Faces
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever mod has the NPC faces that you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPC faces. This ensures that the NPC faces from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC faces.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the NPC faces of the game, and you want those NPC faces to always be used even if another mod changes the NPC faces to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • NPC Face-Gen Symmetric, Face-Gen Asymmetric, Face-Gen Texture Symmetry, eyes, hair, hair length, hair color, fnam you need to tag the mod with 'NpcFaces'. You may tag it with 'NpcFacesForceFullImport' if you want all of the previous attributes to be kept even if they haven't been changed.


Import Names
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever file has the names that you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the various names in the game. This ensures that the names from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same name.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the names of things in the game, and you want those names to always be used even if another mod changes the names to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Names':
    • Class name
    • Faction name
    • Hair name
    • Eyes name
    • Race name
    • Magic Effect name
    • Enchantment name
    • Spell name
    • Birthsign name
    • Activator name
    • Alchemical Apparatus name
    • Armor name
    • Book name
    • Clothing name
    • Container name
    • Door name
    • Ingredient name
    • Light name
    • Misc name
    • Flora name
    • Furniture name
    • Weapon name
    • Ammo name
    • NPC name
    • Creature name
    • Soul Gem name
    • Key name
    • Potion/Poison name
    • Sigil Stone name
    • World name
    • Cell name
    • Dialogue name
    • Quest name


Import Relations
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the way that a faction interacts with another faction and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same faction. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you add, or change the relation that a faction has with another and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Relations'.


Import Roads
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the layout of the world, and this requires that the roads match the new layout even if another mod changes the same world. This ensures that the road is kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you change the road record of a world, and want that road kept even if the world is possibly changed by a later mod, you need to tag the mod with 'Roads'.


Import Script Contents
  • Should you check it? No.
  • What does it do? It copies the actual script into the bashed patch.
  • When does the user need it? Never.
  • When does a modder need it? Never. It has a good chance of breaking the patch unless you know exactly what you're doing. It is disabled in CBash mode for safety.


Import Scripts
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the script associated with an object and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same object. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Scripts':
    • Activator script
    • Potion/Poison script
    • Alchemical Apparatus script
    • Armor script
    • Book script
    • Clothing script
    • Container script
    • Creature script
    • Door script
    • Flora script
    • Furniture script
    • Ingredient script
    • Key script
    • Light script
    • Leveled Creature script
    • Misc script
    • NPC script
    • Quest script
    • Sigil Stone script
    • Soul Gem script
    • Weapon script


Import Sounds
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever mod has the sounds that you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the various sounds in the game. This ensures that the sounds from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same sound.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the sounds of things in the game, and you want those sounds to always be used even if another mod changes the sounds to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Sound':
    • Activator sound
    • Container open, close sounds
    • Creature foot weight, inherits sounds from, other sounds
    • Door open, close, loop sounds
    • Light sound
    • Magic Effect casting, bolt, hit, area sounds
    • Weather sounds


Import Spell Stats
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise (such as if you're using a spell overhaul, you'll probably want to only check that overhaul).
  • What does it do? Some mods change spells in order to fix bugs or to rebalance them. This ensures that these changes are kept even if another mod doesn't use the same changes.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other. Some mods may instruct you on which items should be checked.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'SpellStats':
    • Spell name, cost, level type, spell type


Import Stats
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise (such as if you're using an item overhaul, you'll probably want to only check that overhaul).
  • What does it do? Some mods change items in order to fix bugs or to rebalance them. This ensures that these changes are kept even if another mod doesn't use the same changes.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other. Some mods may instruct you on which items should be checked.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Stats':
    • Potion/Poison weight, value
    • Ammo weight value, damage, speed, enchantment points
    • Alchemical Apparatus weight, value, quality
    • Armor weight, value, health, strength
    • Book weight, value, enchantment points
    • Clothing weight, value, enchantment points
    • Ingredient weight, value
    • Key weight, value
    • Light weight, value, duration
    • Misc weight, value
    • Sigil Stone weight, value, uses
    • Weapon weight, value, health, damage, speed, reach, enchantment points


Globals
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Sets various global values for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.


Tweak Actors
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Makes various changes to actors for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.


Tweak Assorted
  • Should you check it? Depends. The following options are recommended for all users: Bow Reach Fix, DarNified Books if you use DarN's UI, and Nvidia Fog Fix (even if you don't have an Nvidia graphics card). Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Makes various misc changes for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.


Tweak Clothes
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Makes various changes to clothing for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.


Tweak Names
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Mostly modifies names to make them sort "better" in game. Lore Friendly Names is the exception and simply replaces one word for another for consistency.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.


Tweak Settings
  • Should you check it? Depends. The following options are recommended for all users: UOP Vampire Aging and Face Fix.esp. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Sets various game setting values for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.


Cobl Catalogs
  • Should you check it? If you use COBL, yes. Otherwise, no.
  • What does it do? It updates the in game COBL catalogs to include all ingredients and effects added by your mods.
  • When does the user need it? If you use COBL and want the in game catalogs to be accurate.


Cobl Exhaustion
  • Should you check it? If you use COBL and use its Exhaustion feature, yes. Otherwise, no.
  • What does it do? It updates greater powers added by other mods that are listed in the selected csv files so that they're compatible with COBL's Exhaustion feature.
  • When does the user need it? If you use COBL and its Exhaustion feature.


Contents Checker
  • Should you check it? Yes.
  • What does it do? It checks for some errors in your active mods.
  • When does the user need it? Always. Unless you know for certain that your actives mods are safe (because you ran this option previously and haven't changed your mods).


Leveled Lists
  • Should you check it? Yes.
  • What does it do? It merges changes to leveled lists so that mods play nicely with each other.
  • When does the user need it? Always. Advanced users may want it disabled, or may want to take it off automatic.


Morph Factions
  • Should you check it? If you use COBL and Wrye Morph, yes. Otherwise, no.
  • What does it do? It updates factions so that they are more likely to work with Wrye Morph.
  • When does the user need it? If you use COBL and Wrye Morph. Then again, you should only be using Wrye Morph if you're an advanced user, so you probably aren't reading this.


Power Exhaustion
  • Should you check it? No. It is only available for backwards compatibility.
  • What does it do? It updates greater powers added by other mods so that they're compatible with Wrye's deprecated Power Exhaustion mod.
  • When does the user need it? Never. Update to COBL Exhaustion already.


Race Records
  • Should you check it? Yes. Unlike all other options, even if there are no mods on the right, it should still be selected. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to races and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same race. This ensures that those changes are kept. It also checks for and fixes various errors as described in the patch window.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other. Some mods may instruct you on which items should be checked.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Race hairs you need to tag the mod with 'Hair'.
    • Race male height, weight, tail (model path, bound radius, modt), upper body texture path, lower body texture path, hand texture path, foot texture path, tail texture path you need to tag the mod with 'Body-M'.
    • Race female height, weight, tail (model path, bound radius, modt), upper body texture path, lower body texture path, hand texture path, foot texture path, tail texture path you need to tag the mod with 'Body-F'.
    • Race male voice you need to tag the mod with 'Voice-M'.
    • Race female voice you need to tag the mod with 'Voice-F'.
    • Race teeth lower (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), or teeth upper (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Teeth'.
    • Race mouth (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), or tongue (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Mouth'.
    • Race male ears (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), or female ears (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Ears'.
    • Race head (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), Face-Gen Symmetric, Face-Gen Asymmetric, Face-Gen Texture Symmetry, or snam you need to tag the mod with 'R.Head'.
    • Race male attributes (strength, speed, etc) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Attributes-M'.
    • Race female attributes (strength, speed, etc) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Attributes-F'.
    • Race skills, skill modifiers you need to tag the mod with 'R.Skills'.
    • Race description you need to tag the mod with 'R.Description'.
    • Race factions (add/remove/change relation modifier) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Relations'.
    • Race spells (adding) you need to tag the mod with 'R.AddSpells'.
    • Race spells (removing or removing some and adding others) you need to tag the mod with 'R.ChangeSpells'. Don't use 'R.AddSpells' and 'R.ChangeSpells' at the same time.
    • Race eyes (adding,removing) you need to tag the mod with 'Eyes'.


SEWorld Tests
  • Should you check it? Yes (assuming you aren't using a really old patch).
  • What does it do? It fixes any quests that aren't suspended while your character is in the Shivering Isles.
  • When does the user need it? Always (assuming you aren't using a really old patch). If you don't have the Shivering Isles expansion, this won't do you any good, but it also won't hurt you. So it's safer to just leave it enabled.

User avatar
Lily
 
Posts: 3357
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:32 am

Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:53 am

:) Looks like I will be doing a 7.2 update, theres a few details there which correct my last upload (Script Contents immediately grabbed me by the throat - Didn't know that need not be selected before) - Wish that was in the help file

Edit: Thank you Waruddar for taking time out with this, much appreciated for the guide
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Jaki Birch
 
Posts: 3379
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:16 am

Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:12 am

Please note that I do not promise the above info to be 100% accurate. 99% accurate, sure. Not 100% though.

Also keep in mind that it is deliberately simplistic. It was written in mind as a quick-reference. There are times you'll want to do something that goes directly against its advice.

As for Import Script Contents, that was a patcher written while I was away from Oblivion. I don't know what mods use it, or what prompted it to be made. There may very well be a good use case for it, but I haven't come across one.
User avatar
lolly13
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:36 am

Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:00 am

As for Import Script Contents, that was a patcher written while I was away from Oblivion. I don't know what mods use it, or what prompted it to be made. There may very well be a good use case for it, but I haven't come across one.


Just scratching my head over that one its not in my Build dialogue with 291. But SE worlds tests is another I have not included before.. Anyway will go through it carefully and simplify a bit more for my screen 6 :)

Edit: Copied and realised Non-CBash will see it - Back to work on the guide :)
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James Potter
 
Posts: 3418
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:40 am

Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:59 am

Import Script Contents

* Should you check it? No.
* What does it do? It copies the actual script into the bashed patch.
* When does the user need it? Never.
* When does a modder need it? Never. It has a good chance of breaking the patch unless you know exactly what you're doing. It is disabled in CBash mode for safety.


Why was this ever included then if it's supposed to be so dangerous? If a user never needs it and a modder never needs it and you've disabled it in CBash for safety, why is it around at all?
User avatar
Genevieve
 
Posts: 3424
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:22 pm

Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:08 am

Yeah, Import Script Contents is intentionally disabled when CBash is enabled. You'll only see it when CBash is disabled.

Edit: I don't know why it was included. As mentioned, it was done while I was gone.

Quick and simple example why it can be dangerous:
1) Mod A has a script that references object 'Z' and is tagged for the Import Script Contents
2) Mod B overrides that script, deletes object 'Z', and instead references object 'Y'
3) The Bashed Patch pulls the script from Mod A that references deleted object 'Z'. Bad news.

Basically, when a script is written, it is assumed that it knows a bit about its environment. When a script is overridden, the original environment has a good chance of being changed. It was overridden for a reason. If Bash breaks this override behavior, scripts stand a good chance of breaking.

Will it always break? No. Will it normally break? Probably not. Will it ever break? Almost definitely.

It's been left in the non-CBash version simply for backwards compatibility. I don't know any mods that actually use it though.
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Julie Ann
 
Posts: 3383
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:17 am

Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:42 am

While that technique does work, it isn't recommended. http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10724 solved the problem much more elegantly using bsa redirection and doesn't require updating the invalidation after your mod use changes. Here's a good http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/archiveinvalidation.html of the various archive invalidation techniques.

Bash directly supports the bsa redirection technique so that you don't have to download the above file. Right-click on the Installers tab header and enable "BSA Redirection"

OBMM also supports the bsa redirection technique, but I don't remember the steps to activate it.

I don't have much experience in the bsa redirection or the ArchiveInvalidated technique before, so I can't say of what's right or not. :)

Btw... thanks for the link Waruddar. :thumbsup:
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aisha jamil
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:04 am

It's been left in the non-CBash version simply for backwards compatibility. I don't know any mods that actually use it though.


Seems like it would be wise to remove it then. Especially given how easy it is to trample variable indexes.
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Sabrina Steige
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:49 am

A rather eccentric request here :)

Would it be possible for BAIN to create BSAs from subpackages (the 00 Core folders) inside archives prefixed with the ESM/P name? Using BAIN in conjunction, it can be really easy to check whether a mod doesn't conflict with another's resources and just BSA it up.

I keep hearing the advantages of an uncompressed BSA rather than loose files but doing that with BAIN is really tedious.

Other than that, would it be possible for BAIN to peer into BSAs and report conflicts in the detector window?

PS: Any word on the "http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1136734-relz-wrye-bash-thread-54/page__view__findpost__p__16703725" thing? :P
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Smokey
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:40 am

Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide 7.2 (Only Basics guide, Complete JPGs, and TESNexus images affected) will be uploaded in approx 20 mins - New screen 6 of the basics guide is now a condensed version of Waruddars post earlier, by necessity it has made that screen a bit more daunting for first time users but I cant really make it much simpler without losing something

Please have a look once uploaded - I'm off to sleep on completion but pretty sure I caught everything needed.
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tegan fiamengo
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:31 am

A rather eccentric request here :)

Would it be possible for BAIN to create BSAs from subpackages (the 00 Core folders) inside archives prefixed with the ESM/P name? Using BAIN in conjunction, it can be really easy to check whether a mod doesn't conflict with another's resources and just BSA it up.

I keep hearing the advantages of an uncompressed BSA rather than loose files but doing that with BAIN is really tedious.

Other than that, would it be possible for BAIN to peer into BSAs and report conflicts in the detector window?

PS: Any word on the "http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1136734-relz-wrye-bash-thread-54/page__view__findpost__p__16703725" thing? :P

About half a year ago, I talked to PM and a few others about adding better BSA support to BAIN (I was mostly concerned with handling files that conflict with BSA files). Everyone I talked to agreed that it would be nice, but nothing really came of it. As I recall, we couldn't agree on an implementation that wouldn't break something. Having BAIN track and manage conflicts in BSA files is rather too complicated to do without a solid plan.

On top of that, it was almost impossible to design a scheme that automatically allows proper conflict resolution. I don't remember the exact details as to why, but several good technical arguments were made. So for now, and the foreseeable future, this is something best done by hand.

There has been some internal work on adding a BSA tab that would simplify the process, but it hasn't been touched in a while.

Assigning default icons to records missing them was added a while back...probably immediately after your request. I just recently got through fixing some bugs that came up with it, and it seems to be working great.

Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide 7.2 (Only Basics guide, Complete JPGs, and TESNexus images affected) will be uploaded in approx 20 mins - New screen 6 of the basics guide is now a condensed version of Waruddars post earlier, by necessity it has made that screen a bit more daunting for first time users but I cant really make it much simpler without losing something

Please have a look once uploaded - I'm off to sleep on completion but pretty sure I caught everything needed.


I'll have a quick look tomorrow. Wrye Bash suffers from a glut of documentation...new users always seem to have their eyes gloss over when they see the wall of text that the official readme has become.
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Trish
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:25 am

Let me go through each patch option. Please note, when I say that it should be checked, that only applies if there are items on the right side as well (except for one patch option which is detailed below).

Thanks, that was an extremely useful post. I finally understood what some of the options do, and I activated a few more of them. Usually I'm rather cautious with activating stuff I don't understand.

BTW I experimented with the replace FormID feature because I wanted to try out Candles for Kleptos. Unfortunately it sent memory usage flying right up to 1.9+ GB before crashing Bash. The crash is reproducible, an out of memory error I imagine.
Is there any way that Bash can use more than 2GB of memory (I have Win7 x64, 4 GB of RAM)? I think it can already rise to almost 1GB just to manage my packages (~600) and esps (~300).
I imagine that CBash is more memory efficient, so I'm looking forward to its official release.

--

Regarding the bsa issue, I didn't know you just needed the beginning of the name to match the esp. I'm gonna put this to good use. Automatic renaming to start with "Bashed Patch, 0" (maybe it's time to remove that comma) would make a lot of sense and wouldn't be so out there compared to other stuff it already does, ghosting for instance.
Besides, another area that needs better support for bsa and file renaming in general is BAIN Wizards: for instance you have to rename the MMM.bsa to MMM for OOO.bsa or other names depending on the esp you're using.

--

I know I'm jumping from one topic to another, but regarding BAIN Wizards have you thought of simply allowing arbitrary Python scripts to be included and run within a BAIN package? From what I understand it wouldn't be more dangerous than OBMM scripts or BAIN installing obse plugins. It seems weird to imitate OBMM when you already have a powerful scripting language in use, and all Bash functionality (bosh.py, etc) would be accessible without writing an intermediate layer. Of course the inconvenients would be that script-writing would become harder and not necessarily accessible for most modders, and a stupidly written script could seriously mess with Bash.... but I still find the idea interesting.
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Liii BLATES
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:39 am

@Warrudar: Thank you for the insight :)

I do agree that adding BSA stuff (even basics like redating and recording them) can make WB closer to the swiss army knife of Oblivion utilities! The only reason I use OBMM(Ex) atm is for its BSA functions so ...

Might I add a proverbial "YAY!" for CBash too? :D
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Bek Rideout
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:30 am

Warning, mega post below. Proceed with caution.

Many thanks for this - pasted straight into my personal notes - fantastic summary and advice for all the bash options - many thanks for taking the time to write and post it.
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Jon O
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:20 am

Would it be possible (and appealing to anyone else...) to have the "Move To" functionality under the Mods tab, as well as under Installers? In other words, the ability to highlight a plugin (or group of plugins), and right click -> move to [load order #]...?

With a lot of mods, including many ghosted, it's just a bit of a hassle moving them almost-a-page at a time.

Unless I'm missing something that's already there, or the latest revision has this already, or... something else again?
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Christine
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:06 am

Would it be possible (and appealing to anyone else...) to have the "Move To" functionality under the Mods tab, as well as under Installers? In other words, the ability to highlight a plugin (or group of plugins), and right click -> move to [load order #]...?

With a lot of mods, including many ghosted, it's just a bit of a hassle moving them almost-a-page at a time.

Unless I'm missing something that's already there, or the latest revision has this already, or... something else again?

With something like that though, do you specify the position in hex, or in decimal? Bash currently gives just the hex, but since it's easier for the average person to read decimal, perhaps it would be an idea to also give the decimal, in brackets or something? Ie.
...
59 (89)
5A (90)
5B (91)
5C (92)
...

Then Breton Paladin's suggestion could be implemented using the more natural decimal position, and people wouldn't need to do conversions in their heads. :shrug:
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Alba Casas
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:46 pm

With something like that though, do you specify the position in hex, or in decimal? Bash currently gives just the hex, but since it's easier for the average person to read decimal, perhaps it would be an idea to also give the decimal, in brackets or something? Ie.
...
59 (89)
5A (90)
5B (91)
5C (92)
...

Then Breton Paladin's suggestion could be implemented using the more natural decimal position, and people wouldn't need to do conversions in their heads. :shrug:

Oh. Good point! I have no problems with hex, so I forgot for a sec that others might. :blush:

Still, thanks for at least considering(?) - or replying, at any rate. :)
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Eric Hayes
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:23 am

I'll have a quick look tomorrow. Wrye Bash suffers from a glut of documentation...new users always seem to have their eyes gloss over when they see the wall of text that the official readme has become.


Having had some sleep - I am re-doing screen 6 again - The current uploaded one I am not happy with the wordage in the first paragraph of the bubble-out, so set about making it more readable and informative. Will upload in a few hours, also fiddling graphically with those Selection key markers to make them a little clearer.

Edit: 'Tis done
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Katie Louise Ingram
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:50 am

Would it be possible (and appealing to anyone else...) to have the "Move To" functionality under the Mods tab, as well as under Installers? In other words, the ability to highlight a plugin (or group of plugins), and right click -> move to [load order #]...?

With a lot of mods, including many ghosted, it's just a bit of a hassle moving them almost-a-page at a time.

Unless I'm missing something that's already there, or the latest revision has this already, or... something else again?

I like the idea, but it's what wrinklyninja said not everyone can understand the hex number which I can. Instead I suggest that an option through an installation in bain that any bsa is gonna to be installed can be directly or indirectly registered in the Oblivion.ini under the "[Archive]" section.

You can already do this manually to edit Oblivion.ini by your self, but since you can do some edits in that file such as enabled screenshots or disabled border regions in Wrye Bash (INIedit tab), so why not registry any bsa file in the same way (enable bsa registry or disable bsa registry setting in Wrye Bash).

But another question needs to be asked first; ...is it possible to do that? :unsure:
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Ian White
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:08 am

I like the idea, but it's what wrinklyninja said not everyone can understand the hex number which I can. Instead I suggest that an option through an installation in bain that any bsa is gonna to be installed can be directly or indirectly registered in the Oblivion.ini under the "[Archive]" section.

You can already do this manually to edit Oblivion.ini by your self, but since you can do some edits in that file such as enabled screenshots or disabled border regions in Wrye Bash (INIedit tab), so why not registry any bsa file in the same way (enable bsa registry or disable bsa registry setting in Wrye Bash).

But another question needs to be asked first; ...is it possible to do that? :unsure:

Well, the BSAs are just listed separated by spaces, so I don't see why not. Have a "Register BSAs" option in the right-click menu, and if the user selects the option, Bash can't scan the text string for a mod's BSA and if it's not there, append it, and if it's being uninstalled and the option is selected, the substring that is the BSA name then gets cut.

RE: The readme being a bit lengthy and scaring people: It is a wall of text, but it's pretty much all there for good reason. However, how about making it a bit easier to find info on commonly used features by splitting it up into a (relatively) 'quick start' section and an 'appendices' section? The quick start would go over the basics of usage, how to rebuild a patch, how to install mods via BAIN, etc. - the sort of things lots of people use Bash for. The appendices would contain all the info the readme currently contains, in its current format (splitting it up by area), and the quick start could refer users to specific sections of the appendices for more details.

It's something I attempted with BOSS's user rules readme - there's a lot of info there that people don't really need if they just want to do simple stuff. Rather than bore the casual user with nitty-gritty details about such things, I tried giving quick instructions and examples of basic rules and then went into more depth later on. I'm not sure how successful that's been, but it's got to be better that if everything was listed in order, in extreme detail. I also tried doing something similar with OBGEv2's readme, since that is complicated, so I tried simplifying the install instructions as much as possible, then followed with basic usage instructions, and then gave modder's info and ini descriptions at the end. Again, not so sure how well it turned out, but I think I've seen less complaints on Nexus recently. :shrug:
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dell
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:56 pm

Well, the BSAs are just listed separated by spaces, so I don't see why not. Have a "Register BSAs" option in the right-click menu, and if the user selects the option, Bash can't scan the text string for a mod's BSA and if it's not there, append it, and if it's being uninstalled and the option is selected, the substring that is the BSA name then gets cut.

Yes if you think that's possible. :nod:

RE: The readme being a bit lengthy and scaring people: It is a wall of text, but it's pretty much all there for good reason. However, how about making it a bit easier to find info on commonly used features by splitting it up into a (relatively) 'quick start' section and an 'appendices' section? The quick start would go over the basics of usage, how to rebuild a patch, how to install mods via BAIN, etc. - the sort of things lots of people use Bash for. The appendices would contain all the info the readme currently contains, in its current format (splitting it up by area), and the quick start could refer users to specific sections of the appendices for more details.

Please do make the readme a little easier for everyone. :yes:
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Max Van Morrison
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:33 pm

As for Import Script Contents, that was a patcher written while I was away from Oblivion. I don't know what mods use it, or what prompted it to be made. There may very well be a good use case for it, but I haven't come across one.

This quote from the readme should answer your question:
Import Scripts Contents

? Overview
? Designed really to import the script subrecord of Dialogue records but not working for that yet, works fine for regular scripts currently. As of Wrye Bash version 278 no longer bringing script records forward if they are identical to the master record.

? Configuration:
? Source mods are automatically recognized if they have a ScriptContents tag in the mod description.

? Script/Records Handled:
? all script TopGroup records - but not the script segments of dialogues/quest stages (yet).


So it seems that it was originally designed to import the scripts attached to quest stages and dialogue and created as a place-holder but then never finished. I do agree though that it's pretty useless in it's current form; a script record consists of the source, compiled script and data derived from the compiled script which probably shouldn't be modified by hand. Therefore, a script record in a mod will be either edited, non-existent or dirty and there isn't really anything that can be separated from the rest of the record. If someone can get it to import from quest stages and dialogue though, then it would be useful.
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dean Cutler
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:56 pm

Warrudar - thanks for the excellent summary of the import tags. I have been hesitant to import a lot of stuff and your summary will help me make better sense of that. I am going to pm your post to Tomlong so she can update her TES4Positive site. I haven't seen her on the forums for a couple of days, so she may have returned to school...
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K J S
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:07 am

Many thanks for this - pasted straight into my personal notes - fantastic summary and advice for all the bash options - many thanks for taking the time to write and post it.

+1 !

As for the BSAs discussion (which I didn't really follow to be honest) - just to say that I personally hate BSAs and if I would ask for something from BAIN would be a command to unpack them - with the conflicts handling of BAIN reaching perfection I really see no reason to have those huge slow witted files lying around eating my disk space (and slots) with duplicated records - I tried to delete the Oblivion - *.bsaS (replace them with BAIN packages) but the game wouldn't load - anyone knows if possible ? (there are some ini values that point to them)
I will be reading the posts above and try to offer some constructive criticism - in the next thread :D
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Prohibited
 
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Post » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:41 pm

I like the idea, but it's what wrinklyninja said not everyone can understand the hex number which I can. Instead I suggest that an option through an installation in bain that any bsa is gonna to be installed can be directly or indirectly registered in the Oblivion.ini under the "[Archive]" section.

Sorry, but how did we (or you...?) get from ESPs - what I was talking about - to BSAs?

Or did I stumble into some other discussion, and get caught in the crossfire... or am I simply misunderstanding how your response applies to my post? :unsure:

edit: If it even does! :D
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April
 
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