[RELZ] Wrye Bash -- Thead 57 : IV

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:36 pm

Download: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22368 or https://sourceforge.net/projects/oblivionworks/files
Readme: the file named Wrye Bash.html in the mopy folder)
External Reading: (ie tutorials, user created help files that may be easier to understand than the giant readme)

Wrye Bash Wiki: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Wrye_Bash
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35230

Screenshots: http://wryemusings.com/images/WryeBash_01.png, http://wryemusings.com/images/WryeBash_02.png, http://wryemusings.com/images/WryeBash_03.png, http://wryemusings.com/images/WryeBash_05.png
Previous Topic: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150534-relz-wrye-bash-thead-56/
Requirements:

It's easiest to just download the WryePython03a package from http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22368 unless you like to customize your install.
(http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.6.5/python-2.6.5.msi or http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.6.6/python-2.6.6.msi), http://downloads.sourceforge.net/wxpython/wxPython2.8-win32-ansi-2.8.11.0-py26.exe, http://sourceforge.net/projects/comtypes/files/comtypes/0.6.2/comtypes-0.6.2.win32.exe/download, http://www.voidspace.org.uk/downloads/psyco-1.6.win32-py2.6.zip, and http://sourceforge.net/project/platformdownload.php?group_id=78018
Older/Newer versions _may_ work but those are probably the most widely used and tested

Overview:

Wrye Bash has a lot of features. I mean a LOT. It's like twenty tools rolled into one. It includes as subfeatures the entire feature sets of other tools, and offers plenty of other features that no other mod tool has. ~~Except installation. It's the "everything but installation" tool!~~ Now with installation too!

Installation:

First time installation is still a little difficult, but later updates are easy (just unzip latest version into Oblivion directory). However, for first time installation you have to preinstall two other packages and then (sometimes) tweak a shortcut. You can't just download and press the pretty buttons -- you have to follow the readme instructions. If you have followed the instructions and still have problems, post the bugdump. If you haven't followed the instructions and whine that it won't work without posting the bugdump, Wrye will bite your fingers off (it's a monkey thing). Otherwise he's quite helpful.

Linking:

If you'd like to link to Bash from somewhere else, please do! But be sure to link to either http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22368 or http://sourceforge.net/projects/oblivionworks/. Don't link to the actual Bash zip file, since that changes fairly frequently.

Bain

Install/uninstall mods from zip, 7z, archives, etc. No OMODs required!

Bashed Patchers

Configure and build a custom patch mod to...
Merge leveled lists
Merge TNR faces over other changes to npcs
Merge race eye/hair/body/voice changes over other changes to races
Tweak clothes: Show amulets with robes, zero weight rings and amulets, etc.
Tweak misc. GMST settings.

Repair/Edit Stuff

Repair animation bug (various animations freezing)
Repair hair bug (game ctds when viewing race menu after removing a hair mod)
Remove spells from spell list
Rename created spells, enchanted items
Remove bloating (one use of this reduced a 158 Mb savegame to 2.5 Mb)
Import NPC levels into an existing savegame (essential when switching to/from OOO, Frans, etc.)
Import PC face from other savegame or any mod (e.g., import any of TNR's faces into game)
Easily generate html readmes using wiki-like syntax.

Mod, Savegame, Screenshot Management

Auto-Ghost mods to reduce espm thrashing.
Launch Oblivion and TESCS (with or without OBSE).
Mod, save, screenshot file management. (Rename, duplicate, etc.)
Save Profiles: Have different sets of saves for different npcs with different loadlists, etc.
Screenshots: View, delete, batch rename, open, etc.
Readme Browser: Quickly view readme of currently selected mod.
Quick/Autoswap between SI and pre-SI versions of Oblivion.esm.

You should add a few more things to that list, Wrye. Almost none of the items from my list of the most compelling features in Wrye Bash are on your list:

For everyone:

Accurately and quickly managing your load order (correctly sorts ESMs)
Locking your load order (so updated mods automatically load in the exact same spot as the old version)
Checking your load list for problems (missing mod dependencies)
Checking savegames against load list and syncing load list to savegame
Cleaning bloated savegames
Archive Invalidation (now supports BSA-alteration BSA-redirection method)
Replacers (install/remove texture replacement mods -- really any mod, too)
Change master entry in savegame (to avoid losing items, quest progress, etc. when the name of a mod has changed)

For mod-makers:

Add a master to a plugin (for mod de-isolation)
Change master entry in plugin (for mod de-isolation)
Locking your load order (so changes you make don't move the plugin to the end of your load list)
Savegame profiles (so you can easily test with only your mod active, then easily switch back to playing with all your mods active)

Fallout 3:

TheLORDofDOOM has taken on making a FO3 version, Wrye4Fallout3... and here's the first little bit of it (not all translated to account for FO3 but it's showing promise). And another, a bit further along, by Valda called http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1079607-relz-garybash/.

Other news:

There is now a listserve for the svn and bug/request/patch/support trackers; if you want to get emails whenever changes to those items happen just join over https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oblivionworks-committers. You can also use it for support requests/questions if you desire.

Latest Versions:
=== 290 [15/10/2010] [PacificMorrowind]
=== 289 [14/10/2010] [myk002,PacificMorrowind,roxahris,valda68k]

Spoiler

fix fatal typo in non-CBash Bashed Patch build introduced in 289 (reported by Tokc.D.K.)
added Disable/Enable ini tweaks for Screenshots.

Bashed Patch:
- Fixed Reweigh Staff logger
- Fixed some missing gmstIds for non-CBash build of the tweak settings (gmst tweaker)
- Added CBash version of Import Actors: Spells
- optimizations/fixes applied to Import Actors: Spells (both CBash & non-CBash versions)
- Actors.Skeleton importer added
- skeleton removed from graphics import for creatures.
- NpcFacesForceFullImport tag added.
Improved Nehrim Support (contributed by roxahris)
A slight fix so that if the user has BOSS version 1.6 but hasn't created a masterlist yet it'll still work fine.
7z reverted to version 9.15 and then updated to version 9.17
Unicode/ansi fatal installer errors fixed. (it still may copy slightly er funkified file names of some non-ASCII char files).
DnD ordering in Installers fixed for Non-English installs (contributed by valda68k)
Escaping of quotations in names export (contributed by valda68k)
fix/improvement for oneInstanceChecker (contributed by myk002)

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:27 am

r780 report:

NPC Face imports are skipping the HNAM records for hair: http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5630/missinghairimport.jpg

GMST forms are not being injected to the 00 index like they are when not using CBash. Not sure how much of an issue that is.

Race data is copying the wrong Facegen field into the FGGS slot: http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8486/wrongfacegendata.jpg

Import Roads failed to import anything.

Not sure if I'm understanding the "Race Records" importer properly or not but the CBash implementation is apparently not doing anything with it because a lot of the randomized data that shows up without CBash isn't there. It's not that big a deal to me but it's definitely not working as expected. The NPC block of the patch is the only thing that's wildly out of sync with the non-CBash patch I'm comparing to.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:51 am

Thanks for double click - rename !!
maybe renametime should be increased a bit to get te Windowz feeling (in wins renametime = infinite actually lol)

and a happy new year

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:05 am

NPC Face imports are skipping the HNAM records for hair: http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5630/missinghairimport.jpg

This is expected...hair/eye importing is temporarily disabled.

There is a good chance of the wrong formID being copied since face imports can be done from non-active mods. Thinking of the best way to safely handle this.

GMST forms are not being injected to the 00 index like they are when not using CBash. Not sure how much of an issue that is.

This is by design, and isn't an issue. GMST records are keyed by their editorID and not their formID.

If I set it to the 00 index, the file ends up with an unnecessary dependency on Oblivion.esm. Which is fine for most mods, but breaks compatibility with TCs such as Nehrim.esm.

Race data is copying the wrong Facegen field into the FGGS slot: http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8486/wrongfacegendata.jpg

Fixed. Was a copy/paste bug in CBash...was setting the FGGS field instead of the FGGA field.

Import Roads failed to import anything.

Not sure if I'm understanding the "Race Records" importer properly or not but the CBash implementation is apparently not doing anything with it because a lot of the randomized data that shows up without CBash isn't there. It's not that big a deal to me but it's definitely not working as expected. The NPC block of the patch is the only thing that's wildly out of sync with the non-CBash patch I'm comparing to.

I don't have any mods that import roads, so I'm working blind...but, I'll look into it.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:47 pm

r784
New error in "Import Actors: Animations"

Traceback (most recent call last):  File "D:\Games\Oblivion Gold\Mopy\basher.py", line 5197, in Execute    patchFile.buildPatch(SubProgress(progress,0.1,0.9)) #try to speed this up!  File "D:\Games\Oblivion Gold\Mopy\bosh.py", line 17084, in buildPatch    patcher(modFile, record, bashTags)  File "D:\Games\Oblivion Gold\Mopy\bosh.py", line 19298, in apply    override.animations = self.id_animations[recordId]  File "D:\Games\Oblivion Gold\Mopy\cint.py", line 717, in __set__    cRecords = (c_char_p * length)(*nValue)TypeError: string or integer address expected instead of generator instance

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:40 am

This is expected...hair/eye importing is temporarily disabled.

There is a good chance of the wrong formID being copied since face imports can be done from non-active mods. Thinking of the best way to safely handle this.

It works ok in non-CBash mode. There's nothing in the code there that would lead to a solution?

This is by design, and isn't an issue. GMST records are keyed by their editorID and not their formID.

If I set it to the 00 index, the file ends up with an unnecessary dependency on Oblivion.esm. Which is fine for most mods, but breaks compatibility with TCs such as Nehrim.esm.

Works for me, but then perhaps the non-CBash code should be changed to do the same. As long as the game doesn't care.

I don't have any mods that import roads, so I'm working blind...but, I'll look into it.

My New Roads & Bridges mod has road record files to test that with. CBash can also merge them outright, but I figured testing the import was still worth something since those records could still be embedded inside a larger mod.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:48 pm

Traceback (most recent call last):  File "D:\Games\Oblivion Gold\Mopy\basher.py", line 5197, in Execute    patchFile.buildPatch(SubProgress(progress,0.1,0.9)) #try to speed this up!  File "D:\Games\Oblivion Gold\Mopy\bosh.py", line 17084, in buildPatch    patcher(modFile, record, bashTags)  File "D:\Games\Oblivion Gold\Mopy\bosh.py", line 21923, in apply    self.scan(modFile,record,bashTags)  File "D:\Games\Oblivion Gold\Mopy\bosh.py", line 21919, in scan    self.fid_attr_value.setdefault(record.fid,{}).update(record.ConflictDetails(self.class_attrs[record._Type], False))  File "D:\Games\Oblivion Gold\Mopy\cint.py", line 1764, in ConflictDetails    conflicting.update([(attr,reduce(getattr, attr.split('.'), self)) for parentRecord in parentRecords for attr in attrs if reduce(getattr, attr.split('.'), self) != reduce(getattr, attr.split('.'), parentRecord)])  File "D:\Games\Oblivion Gold\Mopy\cint.py", line 727, in __get__    retValue = http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1154209-relz-wrye-bash-thead-57/_CGetField(instance._CollectionID, instance._ModID, instance._RecordID, 0, self._FieldID, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000

Error with Import Stats in WAC - Gladiator.esp, because this mod was previously damaged. After restoring everything is fine.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:04 pm

CBash: the Import Actors: AIPackages is still missing (r784)

I am eagerly interested in the new possiblities CBash offers. :goodjob:

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:37 pm

The landscape and other WRLD record imports are a godsend for patches. CBash kicked 9 of them out of the active order and was able to merge them completely into the bashed patch. I'll be able to squeeze even more of them out shortly. That's quite a bit of stuff when you consider OCC/OCR and the ULs.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:10 am

It works ok in non-CBash mode. There's nothing in the code there that would lead to a solution?

CBash and the non-CBash mode work on very different paradigms. CBash works with collections of mods, like what you see when you use TES4Edit. The non-CBash mode works with each mod in isolation. Whereas CBash has access to information from every loaded mod at all times, non-CBash only has access to the current mod and whatever information it happened to save from the previous mods. On the other hand, this means CBash has to mess more with formID resolution to keep everything straight and non-CBash gets away with relatively simple formID resolution. So what works for one mode doesn't always work for the other.

For the most part, it's much easier to code for the Bashed Patch using CBash. It can get a bit trickier though when formIDs are involved.

I've proposed several possible solutions to PM. They range from simple (but brutal) solutions such as requiring face mods being active or merged, disallowing eye/hair importing altogether, to more complicated solutions such as having CBash preemptively remove any formIDs that aren't safe to copy, pruning any record that contains formIDs that aren't safe to copy, or allowing masters to be added to the Bashed Patch when they aren't active in the load order. Non-CBash essentially does this last solution, but it isn't really desirable. It forces mods to become active when the player didn't want them to be, potentially causes the missing master crash, or on a full load order can cause the bashed patch to try to load more than 255 mods at once.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:45 am

I'm using Bash 291, and I think its revision 773 or something near that...

When I check FCOM_Convergence.esp under ImportActors:Spells, Oblivion hangs at the menu loading screen. That plugin has booth the spells tag and the spells force add tag. If there is other information I can provide, do tell.

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  underdark.esm02  GTAesgaard_2.esm03  Cybiades.esm  [Version 2.0]04  ScreenEffects.esm05  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.0]06  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5b]07  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5b]08  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]09  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]0A  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]0B  CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm0C  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]0D  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]0E  Better Cities Resources.esm  [Version 4.8.4]0F  CURP_Controller.esm10  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]11  CM Partners.esm12  TRoN.esp**  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp**  TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp13  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.3]14  DLCShiveringIsles.esp15  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]16  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.30]17  Better Cities .esp18  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp19  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp++  FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1A  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1B  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.1]1C  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.0]1D  Immersive Interiors.esp  [Version 0.7]1E  Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp  [Version 0.7]1F  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp++  Enhanced Water - Nearer Fog.esp++  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp  [Version 0.2]20  MIS.esp21  Distant Chapel Bells.esp22  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.1]23  Cities Alive At Night.esp24  WindowLightingSystem.esp25  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp++  Regrowing Nirnroot - Dissappear Reappear.esp  [Version 1.01]26  Willful Resistance.esp  [Version 4.0]27  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.1]28  Display Stats.esp  [Version 1.3.1]29  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.1]2A  FormID Finder4.esp2B  kuerteeCleanUp.esp2C  Quest Log Manager.esp  [Version 1.3.2]2D  Streamline 3.1.esp2E  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.8]2F  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.5]30  sr_super_hotkeys.esp  [Version 0.54]31  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]++  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp++  RTFemaleReplacerV12.esp32  SentientWeapon.esp  [Version 3]33  XiaNewAmuletsV1.esp34  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp  [Version 1.2]++  FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp  [Version 0.9.9]35  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp36  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]37  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]38  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]39  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB5]3A  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OOO_XiaNewAmulets Addon.esp  [Version 0.5]**  OMOBS.esp  [Version 1.0]**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 1.0]3B  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]3C  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3D  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]3E  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3F  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]40  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life No Gates.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]41  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]42  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp  [Version 1.40Alpha]43  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp  [Version 1.39c]44  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]45  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp  [Version 1.39c]**  TamrielTravellersHorseTextures.esp  [Version 2]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_ArcheryRealSwords.esp  [Version 2]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.73]46  Castle Ravenpride.esp  [Version 1.01]47  EM_CompInnsleeping.esp  [Version 0.9]48  BladeSong.esp49  BHC_Expanded.esp  [Version 1.2]4A  FiveBlindMiceBeta.esp  [Version 1.3]4B  Gift of Kynareth.esp4C  GoldenCrest.esp4D  GTAesgaard.esp4E  GTAesgaard_2.esp4F  Kragenir's Death Quest.esp50  KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp51  Kvatch Reclaimed.esp52  mystery of mausoleum.esp53  Slof's Oblivion Goth Shop.esp54  The Ayleid Steps.esp  [Version 3.3.2]55  Aylied Steps - AN Real Lights patch.esp  [Version 1.00]56  TheElderCouncil.esp57  TEC_4ERA_Dialog_Filter.esp58  TheForgottenShields.esp59  NRB4+ForgottonShields Patch.esp5A  VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp5B  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp5C  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]5D  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.30]**  Battlehorn_mobs.esp5E  GoldenCrestBattlehornComp.esp5F  Knights.esp60  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1]++  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]61  Cybiades.esp  [Version 2.1]62  CybiadesDungeon.esp  [Version 2.1]63  TOTF.esp64  RTT.esp65  RTT-Weye Relocation Patch.esp  [Version 2.0.1]66  The Lost Spires.esp67  Mighty Umbra.esp68  Ungarion1TheWelkyndSword.esp  [Version 1.4]69  Blood&Mud.esp6A  Blood&Mud - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]6B  Origin of the Mages Guild.esp  [Version 6.5]6C  The Mystery of the Dulan cult.esp6D  AFK_Weye.esp  [Version 2.2.COBL]++  FCOM_MightyUmbra.esp  [Version 0.9.9]6E  FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_WelkyndSwordBlood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SlofsRobeTrader.esp  [Version 0.9.9]6F  FCOM_OMG.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_OMGSRT.esp  [Version 0.9.9]70  FCOM_DulanCult.esp  [Version 0.9.9]71  road+bridges.esp  [Version 4.5.9]72  HeartOftheDead.esp  [Version 6.5]73  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.4]74  LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp75  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]76  xulTheHeath.esp77  XulEntiusGorge.esp78  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]79  LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp7A  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]7B  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]7C  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.3]7D  KragenirsDeathQuest-LostCoast patch.esp7E  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]7F  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3.1]80  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.3]81  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]82  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]83  KragenirsDeathQuest-CloudtopMountains patch.esp84  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.3]85  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]86  HeartoftheDead-ArriusCreek patch.esp87  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.3]88  KragenirsDeathQuest-RollingHills patch.esp89  xulPantherRiver.esp8A  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]8B  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.1]8C  NakedNord.esp8D  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.6]8E  xulBlackwoodForest.esp  [Version 1.1.0]8F  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]90  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.2]91  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp  [Version 1.0.1]92  xulSnowdale.esp  [Version 1.0.2]93  FrostcragReborn-Snowdale patch.esp94  OOO-Snowdale Patch.esp95  xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp96  OOOCliffsofAnvilPatch.esp  [Version 1.0]97  NRB4+UL-II Patch.esp  [Version 5.0.1]98  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp99  LostSpiresImpeREALFortsPatch2.esp9A  PersonalPackGuars.esp  [Version 0.56]9B  FightersGuildContracts.esp9C  Better Cities - House price patch.esp  [Version 1.0]9D  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.1]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]9E  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]9F  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.43]++  PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp  [Version 1.2]++  Enhanced Vegetation [100%].espA0  Slof's Dogs.espA1  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]A2  Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp  [Version 1.0]A3  SM Encumbrance and Fatigue.esp  [Version 2.6]A4  SM Rest.espA5  EnchantmentRestore.esp++  EnchantmentRestore_Wells.espA6  StealthOverhaul.espA7  RenGuardOverhaul.espA8  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]A9  SM Hand Combat.esp  [Version 1.0]AA  SMCombatRegen.esp  [Version 1.00]AB  BFG's Enhanced Armory.espAC  nGCD.espAD  nGCD Oghma Infinium.espAE  ProgressGSD.esp  [Version 2.0]AF  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]B0  ProgressRacial.espB1  ProgressArmorer.esp  [Version 1.0]B2  Legendary Abilities-Shield MOJ.esp  [Version 2.0]B3  Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Knights.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - OOO.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - The Elder Council.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Lost Spires.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Colovian Highlands.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Lost Coast.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Brena.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - UL Blackwood Forest.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Heart Of the Dead.espB4  Atmospheric Loading Screens - No Text.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]B5  1em_Vilja.esp  [Version 3.1]B6  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVCore - Limr'l.esp**  TamrielTravellers Cosmetics Cobl or RBP.espB7  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]B8  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]B9  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90]BA  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_NoSpellLights.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]BB  SM Spell Leveling.esp  [Version 2.00]BC  bgIntegrationEV.esp  [Version 0.993]**  bgIntegrationEV - Alternative NPC Faces by LazyMonk.esp  [Version 0.96]BD  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp  [Version 4.8.4]BE  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp  [Version 4.7.0]BF  Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.esp  [Version 4.8.0]C0  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp  [Version 4.8.4]C1  Better Cities - Tears of the Fiend.esp  [Version 4.7.0]C2  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp  [Version 4.8.1]C3  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp  [Version 4.8.1]C4  Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp  [Version 4.7.0]C5  Better Imperial City.esp  [Version 4.8.4]C6  Better Cities - The Lost Spires.esp  [Version 4.7.0]C7  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Imperial Isle.esp  [Version 4.8.1]C8  NoLoad.esp**  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp++  Visually Enchanted Fire.esp++  Visually Enchanted Frost.esp++  Visually Enchanted Shock.esp**  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 1.0]C9  UnderdarkSaga.esp++  Faces - Companions.esp**  NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp++  Bashed Delayers - MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 2.09]++  OOO Harvest Containers Filter patch for mods.esp  [Version 1.03]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.1]CA  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:58 pm

Hmm. I see. I guess it's a lot more involved than I knew.

It would certainly be nice though if we didn't have to take a step backward and lose the ability to import hair and eye records for the NPC Faces tag. CBash is sitting darn close to perfect, but really we do need to have that or the art of altering NPC faces gets severely diluted given how easily vanilla NPCs are overridden. The whole idea behind that one at least wasn't dependent on needing to add other mods as masters.

Having the patch pull in the 00 master shouldn't be that big of a deal, should it? Wouldn't seem to matter to me if 00 were Oblivion.esm or Nehrim.esm as long as the process knows where the root records are coming from.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:30 pm

I've proposed several possible solutions to PM. They range from simple (but brutal) solutions such as requiring face mods being active or merged, disallowing eye/hair importing altogether, to more complicated solutions such as having CBash preemptively remove any formIDs that aren't safe to copy, pruning any record that contains formIDs that aren't safe to copy, or allowing masters to be added to the Bashed Patch when they aren't active in the load order. Non-CBash essentially does this last solution, but it isn't really desirable. It forces mods to become active when the player didn't want them to be, potentially causes the missing master crash, or on a full load order can cause the bashed patch to try to load more than 255 mods at once.

Woah thats bad news, C-Bash isn't getting turned on by default in any immediate future versions is it?
Nothing against C-Bash, theres obviously a lot of work going into developing this, moving forward and adapting to any problems in different ways may prove necessary, but this problem seems like quite a big setback considering the mods I know of which really need such imports, and makes non-c-bash more desireable. Fingers crossed you find a way Waruddar.

For the Wrye Bash team as a whole, I have updated the Pictorial Guide in my sig a little. Changes in the description on TESNexus

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:00 am

FCOM_Convergence.esp problem cont.

I am able to check the plugin under every category with this load order, however.

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.0]02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5b]03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5b]04  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]05  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]06  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]07  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]08  Better Cities Resources.esm  [Version 4.8.4]09  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.3]0A  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]0B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp0C  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]0D  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]**  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.1]**  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.0]0E  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp++  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp  [Version 0.2]0F  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.1]10  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp++  Regrowing Nirnroot - Dissappear Reappear.esp  [Version 1.01]11  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.1]++  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp**  RTFemaleReplacerV12.esp12  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp  [Version 1.2]++  FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp  [Version 0.9.9]13  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]14  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB5]15  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]**  OMOBS.esp  [Version 1.0]**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 1.0]**  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]16  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]17  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]18  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]19  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_ArcheryRealSwords.esp  [Version 2]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.73]1A  Blood&Mud.esp1B  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.1]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Enhanced Vegetation [100%].esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - OOO.esp**  Atmospheric Loading Screens - No Text.esp1C  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVCore - Limr'l.esp1D  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]1E  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_NoSpellLights.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]1F  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp  [Version 4.8.4]20  Better Imperial City.esp  [Version 4.8.4]**  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp++  Visually Enchanted Fire.esp++  Visually Enchanted Frost.esp++  Visually Enchanted Shock.esp**  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 1.0]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.1]21  Bashed Patch, 1.esp

Edit: I unchecked the force add spells tag, and the problem persisted. I'm now checking for a conflict with the other FCOM patches.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:26 pm

Is there a way to stop ooo.esp from being checked as mergable

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:28 pm

Woah thats bad news, C-Bash isn't getting turned on by default in any immediate future versions is it?
Nothing against C-Bash, theres obviously a lot of work going into developing this, moving forward and adapting to any problems in different ways may prove necessary, but this problem seems like quite a big setback considering the mods I know of which really need such imports, and makes non-c-bash more desireable. Fingers crossed you find a way Waruddar.

For the Wrye Bash team as a whole, I have updated the Pictorial Guide in my sig a little. Changes in the description on TESNexus

Nah, it isn't a big problem. It'll probably get turned on by default in a couple versions. It's awfully close.

The bug sounds worse than it actually is...it only comes up on patchers that:
1) Allow importing from non-active mods (there aren't many: faces, graphics, animations, relations, names, stats, spells).
2) Copy formIDs from non-active mods (there's only one: the face patcher).

The problem is that the formIDs from non-active mods aren't likely to match up with formIDs in the active mods (01000800 in an non-active mod may refer to an ingredient in Cobl Main.esm, and 01000800 in the active mods may refer to a static in OOO.esm). When the formID is copied, it no longer references the correct record.

Non-CBash has problems with the same scenario, but it chooses to add any non-active mods to the Bashed Patch master list which causes the formID to resolve correctly. In general, I don't think this is the best solution, hence the thinking.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:43 pm

Ver 287 works for me, using Python version 2.5.2. But after the update to 290 it does not start anymore. Even the bugdump will not be generated.
The error seems to be in bosh.py line 1469:

except Exception as error:

"as" is marked as an invalid syntax

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:30 pm

Fixing it. The "except Exception as error:" syntax was added in Python 3.0 and backported to 2.6. Looks like we need to use "except Exception, error:" for backwards compatibility with Python 2.5.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:29 pm

Non-CBash has problems with the same scenario, but it chooses to add any non-active mods to the Bashed Patch master list which causes the formID to resolve correctly. In general, I don't think this is the best solution, hence the thinking.

AFAIK, from using bash since the early 200 versions, when bashed patch activates "undesired" master plugin, it could only be:

- user mistake, because
1) the plugin contents that are being pulled require the master plugin (such as importing scripts vs importing hairs).
2) deisolation patches are the only ones that have to keep dependency and formID coherence (user forgot to activate master)
3) user checked a plugin in bashed patch window options that was patching a mod he didn't want.

- defective plugin, a bad plugin patch including extra information that should not be there, though that is uncommon.

Perhaps I am not understanding the issue. It seems to me that c-bash is a step back, apart the speed optimization?

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:38 pm

Fixing it. The "except Exception as error:" syntax was added in Python 3.0 and backported to 2.6. Looks like we need to use "except Exception, error:" for backwards compatibility with Python 2.5.

Thank you. Now that I know about the old syntax, there are some more "exception as" : basher.py lines 11531, 11554, 11565, 11648. After changing these lines, bash 290 started as expected.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:15 am

The bug sounds worse than it actually is...it only comes up on patchers that:
1) Allow importing from non-active mods (there aren't many: faces, graphics, animations, relations, names, stats, spells).

You sound confident so maybe I am mis-understanding this.

By non-active do you mean completely de-selected?

Or as per my current mod list all the ones imported with + and Dot are safe for use with C-Bash?
Phinix Waterfix, Redbags Fog - Imported graphics
All the sensual walks VWalks - Imported animations (I think I have about 15 in use)
Robert Male - Imported graphics
Weapon replacers - Imported graphics
Vase
Luchaires Khajiit Fix
Custom Vilja's
Hair for the same
Hair and eyes from capuccine replacing NPC hair and eyes randomly throughout cyrodiil ... Thats probably not all of the ones I can think of off-hand but thats just one users list, and probably typical these days.

I think I am wrong but also think a lot of people will be thinking the same way hence the concern

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:59 am

Non-CBash has problems with the same scenario, but it chooses to add any non-active mods to the Bashed Patch master list which causes the formID to resolve correctly. In general, I don't think this is the best solution, hence the thinking.

That's not been my experience and I've used Bash since somewhere in the mid 100s when importing first became widespread. Bash has no reason to import a record from a mod that is inserting new records when nothing else can override that record later. The whole point all along has been to resolve the myriad of vanilla conflicts mods generate by simply editing things. You already have to have the 00 master added in order to do any of the imports you listed, so I'm not seeing the issue with having to drag that one over.

Official DLCs are the only area I can see where there might be an issue to resolve, but it's not a very common thing to see multiple DLC mods all editing the same targets.

The only exception I've seen to this is with the "Race Records" patcher. That does have the annoying habit of assigning each and every mod it makes random hair length and eye color changes to when in non-CBash mode and I'd personally rather it not bother doing that. It crowds out master space that could be put to much better use than randomizing things that weren't set by the original modder. If that's what you're trying to solve, then yes, I'm all for it, and I can imagine it's not going to be an easy thing to get around since there doesn't seem to be any choice but to add mods like that to the patch's master list. A new NPC can only exist in one place after all.

Don't get me wrong, CBash is making huge progress and practically everything is working now. The WRLD merging doesn't seem to have any issues and as I said before it will allow me to shave 9 patches off the active load order right off the bat since they can now be merged instead. I'd imagine many more in other load orders could be trimmed away too. Speed on patch building is insane fast and also doesn't seem to be subject to python's whims on memory usage either.

Now if we just had the Actors.AIPackages part available

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:50 am

Will c-bash work like regular patch?

What features are missing/wip from the normal bash procedure?

I'm asking because I havent been following closely the latest updates on c-bash. The only thing I noticed is that it's way faster, so please bear with me.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:46 pm

To be perfectly clear, the problem being discussed is fixable and is not anywhere near as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

AFAIK, from using bash since the early 200 versions, when bashed patch activates "undesired" master plugin, it could only be:

- user mistake, because
1) the plugin contents that are being pulled require the master plugin (such as importing scripts vs importing hairs).
2) deisolation patches are the only ones that have to keep dependency and formID coherence (user forgot to activate master)
3) user checked a plugin in bashed patch window options that was patching a mod he didn't want.

- defective plugin, a bad plugin patch including extra information that should not be there, though that is uncommon.

Perhaps I am not understanding the issue. It seems to me that c-bash is a step back, apart the speed optimization?

Definitely not a step back. Aside from the speed, CBash allows for far more intricate record manipulation than non-CBash.

As I mentioned, this is only a problem in a very limited set of circumstances. I could make it so that CBash resolves this situation in the same fashion as non-CBash, but I don't really want to. I want a better solution that eliminates the possibility of user mistakes.

Basically, regardless of what the user selects when creating the patch:
1) It shouldn't result in a broken patch.
2) It shouldn't make the patch rely on masters that the user didn't explicitly activate or merge.

If formIDs are copied from a non-active mod without any corrective measures, it violates #1. The patch is broken. Since people are fond of using the latest code from the svn, I temporarily disabled copying hair/eye formIDs on the face patcher so that they don't end up with a broken patch.

If formIDs are copied from a non-active mod using the corrective measures that non-CBash uses, it violates #2. This works for the most part, but it isn't ideal.

By non-active do you mean completely de-selected?

...snip...

I think I am wrong but also think a lot of people will be thinking the same way hence the concern

Yes, completely de-selected. Not selected as part of the normal load order, and not merged into the patch.

This bug ONLY affects importing npc faces. That is the only patcher atm that can cause this bug which is why the eye/hair imports were temporarily disabled until a better fix is in place.

It is safe to use CBash. It just won't copy eyes and hairs until I get this problem fixed.

That's not been my experience and I've used Bash since somewhere in the mid 100s when importing first became widespread. Bash has no reason to import a record from a mod that is inserting new records when nothing else can override that record later. The whole point all along has been to resolve the myriad of vanilla conflicts mods generate by simply editing things. You already have to have the 00 master added in order to do any of the imports you listed, so I'm not seeing the issue with having to drag that one over.

It is a problem with Bash, but it is masked in most situations. Most of the time when Bash pulls in a master, it just happens to already be active in the load order.

Try this with CBash disabled:
1) Deactivate Cobl Main.esm and Cobl Races TNR.esp
2) Import Faces from Cobl Races TNR.esp

You'll notice that the patch now requires Cobl Main.esm even though it wasn't active. This is the behavior I'm trying to avoid.

CBash doesn't currently allow masters to be added if they aren't active. So the above situation would break the patch if I hadn't temporarily disabled the eyes and hairs. On the other hand, if Cobl Main.esm WAS active in the load order, CBash would work just fine with the eyes and hairs.

So for things such as the 00 master, it would work fine as is. I just have to filter out formIDs that reference non-active masters. There are several different filtering schemes I can use, and I'm simply thinking about which is the most appropriate.

In the above example, what would you expect the patch to contain? All the face changes from Cobl Races TNR.esp except the hair and eyes? None of the changes? Should the patch force Cobl Main.esm to be active along with all its other content just because the user wanted the faces from Cobl Races TNR.esp?

The only exception I've seen to this is with the "Race Records" patcher. That does have the annoying habit of assigning each and every mod it makes random hair length and eye color changes to when in non-CBash mode and I'd personally rather it not bother doing that. It crowds out master space that could be put to much better use than randomizing things that weren't set by the original modder. If that's what you're trying to solve, then yes, I'm all for it, and I can imagine it's not going to be an easy thing to get around since there doesn't seem to be any choice but to add mods like that to the patch's master list. A new NPC can only exist in one place after all.

Don't get me wrong, CBash is making huge progress and practically everything is working now. The WRLD merging doesn't seem to have any issues and as I said before it will allow me to shave 9 patches off the active load order right off the bat since they can now be merged instead. I'd imagine many more in other load orders could be trimmed away too. Speed on patch building is insane fast and also doesn't seem to be subject to python's whims on memory usage either.

Now if we just had the Actors.AIPackages part available

The Race Records patcher is supposed to assign random eyes / hairs / hair lengths to npcs that don't have them set. It should probably be separated out into its own patcher so that you can disable it if you want.

Still waiting on PM for the Actors.AIPackages

Will c-bash work like regular patch?

What features are missing/wip from the normal bash procedure?

I'm asking because I havent been following closely the latest updates on c-bash. The only thing I noticed is that it's way faster, so please bear with me.

Yes, CBash works almost exactly like the regular patch for the end user.

Differences:
1) It allows the merging of more record types. More esps become mergeable when CBash is enabled.
2) It allows more intricate patching. Not much has been done with this yet, but the capability is there.
3) It is faster and more efficient with memory.
4) Actors.AIPackages is pretty much the only patcher missing when CBash is enabled.
5) CBash will (eventually) support FO3 and FNV.
6) CBash supports OBME (though some work still remains to be done in Bash).
7) Eyes and hairs won't be copied when importing NPC Faces. This is just temporary though.

» Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:45 pm

Cool, tomorrow I will be taking the plunge and testing out C-Bash for the first time

(well when the hangovers gone anyway)

Edit: Time to Go - A pre-emptive Happy New Year to all :foodndrink: