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[RELZ] Wrye Bash -- Thead 58

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:29 am

Download: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22368 or https://sourceforge.net/projects/oblivionworks/files
Readme: the file named Wrye Bash.html in the mopy folder)
External Reading: (ie tutorials, user created help files that may be easier to understand than the giant readme)
  • Wrye Bash Wiki: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Wrye_Bash
  • http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35230

Screenshots: http://wryemusings.com/images/WryeBash_01.png, http://wryemusings.com/images/WryeBash_02.png, http://wryemusings.com/images/WryeBash_03.png, http://wryemusings.com/images/WryeBash_05.png
Previous Topic: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150534-relz-wrye-bash-thead-57/
Requirements:
  • It's easiest to just download the WryePython03a package from http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22368 unless you like to customize your install.
    (http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.6.5/python-2.6.5.msi or http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.6.6/python-2.6.6.msi), http://downloads.sourceforge.net/wxpython/wxPython2.8-win32-ansi-2.8.11.0-py26.exe, http://sourceforge.net/projects/comtypes/files/comtypes/0.6.2/comtypes-0.6.2.win32.exe/download, http://www.voidspace.org.uk/downloads/psyco-1.6.win32-py2.6.zip, and http://sourceforge.net/project/platformdownload.php?group_id=78018
    Older/Newer versions _may_ work but those are probably the most widely used and tested


Overview:
  • Wrye Bash has a lot of features. I mean a LOT. It's like twenty tools rolled into one. It includes as subfeatures the entire feature sets of other tools, and offers plenty of other features that no other mod tool has. Except installation. It's the "everything but installation" tool! Now with installation too!

Installation:
  • First time installation is still a little difficult, but later updates are easy (just unzip latest version into Oblivion directory). However, for first time installation you have to preinstall two other packages and then (sometimes) tweak a shortcut. You can't just download and press the pretty buttons -- you have to follow the readme instructions. If you have followed the instructions and still have problems, post the bugdump. If you haven't followed the instructions and whine that it won't work without posting the bugdump, Wrye will bite your fingers off (it's a monkey thing). Otherwise he's quite helpful.

Linking:
  • If you'd like to link to Bash from somewhere else, please do! But be sure to link to either http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22368 or http://sourceforge.net/projects/oblivionworks/. Don't link to the actual Bash zip file, since that changes fairly frequently.

Bain
  • Install/uninstall mods from zip, 7z, archives, etc. No OMODs required!

Bashed Patchers
  • Configure and build a custom patch mod to...
  • Merge leveled lists
  • Merge TNR faces over other changes to npcs
  • Merge race eye/hair/body/voice changes over other changes to races
  • Tweak clothes: Show amulets with robes, zero weight rings and amulets, etc.
  • Tweak misc. GMST settings.

Repair/Edit Stuff
  • Repair animation bug (various animations freezing)
  • Repair hair bug (game ctds when viewing race menu after removing a hair mod)
  • Remove spells from spell list
  • Rename created spells, enchanted items
  • Remove bloating (one use of this reduced a 158 Mb savegame to 2.5 Mb)
  • Import NPC levels into an existing savegame (essential when switching to/from OOO, Frans, etc.)
  • Import PC face from other savegame or any mod (e.g., import any of TNR's faces into game)
  • Easily generate html readmes using wiki-like syntax.

Mod, Savegame, Screenshot Management
  • Auto-Ghost mods to reduce espm thrashing.
  • Launch Oblivion and TESCS (with or without OBSE).
  • Mod, save, screenshot file management. (Rename, duplicate, etc.)
  • Save Profiles: Have different sets of saves for different npcs with different loadlists, etc.
  • Screenshots: View, delete, batch rename, open, etc.
  • Readme Browser: Quickly view readme of currently selected mod.
  • Quick/Autoswap between SI and pre-SI versions of Oblivion.esm.

You should add a few more things to that list, Wrye. Almost none of the items from my list of the most compelling features in Wrye Bash are on your list:

For everyone:
  • Accurately and quickly managing your load order (correctly sorts ESMs)
  • Locking your load order (so updated mods automatically load in the exact same spot as the old version)
  • Checking your load list for problems (missing mod dependencies)
  • Checking savegames against load list and syncing load list to savegame
  • Cleaning bloated savegames
  • Archive Invalidation (now supports BSA-alteration BSA-redirection method)
  • Replacers (install/remove texture replacement mods -- really any mod, too)
  • Change master entry in savegame (to avoid losing items, quest progress, etc. when the name of a mod has changed)


For mod-makers:
  • Add a master to a plugin (for mod de-isolation)
  • Change master entry in plugin (for mod de-isolation)
  • Locking your load order (so changes you make don't move the plugin to the end of your load list)
  • Savegame profiles (so you can easily test with only your mod active, then easily switch back to playing with all your mods active)


Fallout 3:
  • TheLORDofDOOM has taken on making a FO3 version, Wrye4Fallout3... and here's the first little bit of it (not all translated to account for FO3 but it's showing promise). And another, a bit further along, by Valda called http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1079607-relz-garybash/.

Other news:
  • There is now a listserve for the svn and bug/request/patch/support trackers; if you want to get emails whenever changes to those items happen just join over https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/oblivionworks-committers. You can also use it for support requests/questions if you desire.

Latest Versions:
=== 290 [15/10/2010] [PacificMorrowind]
=== 289 [14/10/2010] [myk002,PacificMorrowind,roxahris,valda68k]
Spoiler

    === 290 [15/10/2010] [PacificMorrowind]
  • fix fatal typo in non-CBash Bashed Patch build introduced in 289 (reported by Tokc.D.K.)
  • added Disable/Enable ini tweaks for Screenshots.

    === 289 [14/10/2010] [myk002,PacificMorrowind,roxahris,valda68k]
  • Bashed Patch:
    • Fixed Reweigh Staff logger
    • Fixed some missing gmstIds for non-CBash build of the tweak settings (gmst tweaker)
    • Added CBash version of Import Actors: Spells
    • optimizations/fixes applied to Import Actors: Spells (both CBash & non-CBash versions)
    • Actors.Skeleton importer added
    • skeleton removed from graphics import for creatures.
    • NpcFacesForceFullImport tag added.

  • Improved Nehrim Support (contributed by roxahris)
  • A slight fix so that if the user has BOSS version 1.6 but hasn't created a masterlist yet it'll still work fine.
  • 7z reverted to version 9.15 and then updated to version 9.17
  • Unicode/ansi fatal installer errors fixed. (it still may copy slightly er funkified file names of some non-ASCII char files).
  • DnD ordering in Installers fixed for Non-English installs (contributed by valda68k)
  • Escaping of quotations in names export (contributed by valda68k)
  • fix/improvement for oneInstanceChecker (contributed by myk002)

User avatar
Tiffany Carter
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:05 am

Post » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:27 pm

Patch option reference (added as a spoiler due to length).

Spoiler

Please note, when I say that it should be checked, that only applies if there are items on the right side as well (except for one patch option which is detailed below). Also when I say mods, I mean just that, mods. Don't check any of the csv files unless you know that they're what you want.

Alias Mod Names
  • Should you check it? Not normally.
  • What does it do? If a mod has been renamed, it allows patch options that use the original mod name to know that it needs to use the new mod name instead.
  • When does the user need it? If for instance, you rename Oscuros_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp to OOO.esp (for whatever reason), you'll need this option so that Bash knows that OOO.esp is really Oscuros_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp.

Merge Patches
  • Should you check it? Yes. Unless you need it, it won't help you, but it also doesn't hurt to have it active.
  • What does it do? It copies mods into the Bashed Patch so that they don't have to be active.
  • When does the user need it? If you're running out of space in your load order (Oblivion can only handle 255 mods at a time) this can merge some mods into the Bashed Patch so that you have more space. Some mods have to be merged to work properly (filter mods, Item Interchange), but this should be noted in the mod's readme.
  • When does a modder need it? If you're creating a filter or item interchange type mod. See the readme for details.

Replace Form IDs
  • Should you check it? No. This is an advanced option. If you need it, you'll know it (or be instructed to use it).
  • What does it do? It replaces a set of formIDs with another set of formIDs defined by a csv file.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to replace all usage of one item for another. For instance, P1DCandles replaces all static, non-movable candles with candles that can be picked up, moved around, stolen, etc. It only works for Oblivion.esm though. This option allows P1DCandles to work for all mods (assuming you have the original mod installed).
  • When does a modder need it? If you're systematically replacing a formID with another, this will do the work for you. It also works across all mods the user has.

Import Actors
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor aggression, confidence, energy level, responsibility, services, training skill, or training level you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.AIData'.
    • Actor skills (armorer, athletics, etc), health, attributes (strength, speed, etc) you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Stats'.
    • Actor base spell, fatigue, barter gold, level, calc min, calc max, IsBiped, six, IsEssential, IsWeaponAndShield, IsRespawn, IsSwims, IsFlies, IsWalks, IsAutoCalc, IsPCLevelOffset, IsNoLowLevel, IsNoBloodSpray, IsNoBloodDecal, IsNoHead, IsNoRightArm, IsNoLeftArm, IsNoCombatInWater, IsNoShadow IsNoRumors, IsSummonable, IsNoPersuasion, IsCanCorpseCheck you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.ACBS'.
    • NPC class you need to tag the mod with 'NPC.Class'.
    • NPC race you need to tag the mod with 'NPC.Race'.
    • Actor combat style you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.CombatStyle'.
    • Creature blood spray path, blood decal path you need to tag the mod with 'Creatures.Blood'.
    • Actor model path, bound radius, modt you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Skeleton'.

Import Actors: AIPackages
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures AI Packages and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This merges the AI Packages so that they are all present from all tagged mods.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor AI Packages you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.AIPackages'. If you're re-adding an AI Package that was previously removed, you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.AIPackagesForceAdd' as well.

Import Actors: Animations
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures animations and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This merges the animations so that they are all present from all tagged mods.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor animations you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Anims'.

Import Actors: Death Items
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures death items (items that are added to the NPC / Creature only when it dies) and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor Death Items you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.DeathItem'.

Import Actors: Spells
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you add or remove an actor's spell and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Spells'. If you're re-adding a spell that was previously removed, you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.SpellsForceAdd' as well.

Import Cells
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to cells (the areas your character can enter) and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same cell. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Cell climate, or IsBehaveLikeExterior you need to tag the mod with 'C.Climate'.
    • Cell music type you need to tag the mod with 'C.Music'.
    • Cell name you need to tag the mod with 'C.Name'.
    • Cell owner, rank, global variable, or IsPublicPlace you need to tag the mod with 'C.Owner'.
    • Cell water, water height, IsHasWater you need to tag the mod with 'C.Water'.
    • Cell ambient, directional, or fog lighting you need to tag the mod with 'C.Light'.
    • Cell flags not mentioned above you need to tag the mod with 'C.RecordFlags'. Use with care, it also overrides the above flags.

Import Factions
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the factions that an NPC / Creature belongs to and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Adding a faction, removing a faction, or changing the actor's rank in a faction you need to tag the mod with 'Factions'.

Import Graphics
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever mod graphics you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the graphics of the game. This ensures that the graphics from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same graphics.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the graphics of the game, and you want those graphics to always be used even if another mod changes the graphics to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Graphics':
    • Birthsign icon path
    • Loading Screen icon path
    • Class icon path
    • Land texture icon path
    • Region icon path
    • Activator model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Door model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Flora model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Furniture model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Grass model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Static model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Potion/Poison icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Ammo icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Alchemical Apparatus icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Book icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Ingredient icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Key icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Light icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Misc icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Sigil Stone icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Soul Gem icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Weapon icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Tree icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Armor or Clothing male body (model path, bound radius, or modt), male world, male icon path, female body, female world, female icon path, or flags (IsHead, IsHair, etc)
    • Creature body parts or nift
    • Magic Effect icon path, model path, bound radius, modt, effect shader, enchant effect or light
    • Almost anything in an Effect Shader

Import Inventory
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the items that an NPC / Creature / Container start with and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature / Container. This merges all these changes.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you add, remove, or change the count of an item in an NPC / Creature / Container and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Invent'.

Import NPC Faces
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever mod has the NPC faces that you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPC faces. This ensures that the NPC faces from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC faces.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the NPC faces of the game, and you want those NPC faces to always be used even if another mod changes the NPC faces to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • NPC Face-Gen Symmetric, Face-Gen Asymmetric, Face-Gen Texture Symmetry, eyes, hair, hair length, hair color, fnam you need to tag the mod with 'NpcFaces'. You may tag it with 'NpcFacesForceFullImport' if you want all of the previous attributes to be kept even if they haven't been changed.

Import Names
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever file has the names that you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the various names in the game. This ensures that the names from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same name.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the names of things in the game, and you want those names to always be used even if another mod changes the names to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Names':
    • Class name
    • Faction name
    • Hair name
    • Eyes name
    • Race name
    • Magic Effect name
    • Enchantment name
    • Spell name
    • Birthsign name
    • Activator name
    • Alchemical Apparatus name
    • Armor name
    • Book name
    • Clothing name
    • Container name
    • Door name
    • Ingredient name
    • Light name
    • Misc name
    • Flora name
    • Furniture name
    • Weapon name
    • Ammo name
    • NPC name
    • Creature name
    • Soul Gem name
    • Key name
    • Potion/Poison name
    • Sigil Stone name
    • World name
    • Cell name
    • Dialogue name
    • Quest name

Import Relations
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the way that a faction interacts with another faction and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same faction. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you add, or change the relation that a faction has with another and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Relations'.

Import Roads
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the layout of the world, and this requires that the roads match the new layout even if another mod changes the same world. This ensures that the road is kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you change the road record of a world, and want that road kept even if the world is possibly changed by a later mod, you need to tag the mod with 'Roads'.

Import Script Contents
  • Should you check it? No.
  • What does it do? It copies the actual script into the bashed patch.
  • When does the user need it? Never.
  • When does a modder need it? Never. It has a good chance of breaking the patch unless you know exactly what you're doing. It is disabled in CBash mode for safety.

Import Scripts
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the script associated with an object and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same object. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Scripts':
    • Activator script
    • Potion/Poison script
    • Alchemical Apparatus script
    • Armor script
    • Book script
    • Clothing script
    • Container script
    • Creature script
    • Door script
    • Flora script
    • Furniture script
    • Ingredient script
    • Key script
    • Light script
    • Leveled Creature script
    • Misc script
    • NPC script
    • Quest script
    • Sigil Stone script
    • Soul Gem script
    • Weapon script

Import Sounds
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever mod has the sounds that you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the various sounds in the game. This ensures that the sounds from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same sound.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the sounds of things in the game, and you want those sounds to always be used even if another mod changes the sounds to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Sound':
    • Activator sound
    • Container open, close sounds
    • Creature foot weight, inherits sounds from, other sounds
    • Door open, close, loop sounds
    • Light sound
    • Magic Effect casting, bolt, hit, area sounds
    • Weather sounds

Import Spell Stats
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise (such as if you're using a spell overhaul, you'll probably want to only check that overhaul).
  • What does it do? Some mods change spells in order to fix bugs or to rebalance them. This ensures that these changes are kept even if another mod doesn't use the same changes.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other. Some mods may instruct you on which items should be checked.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'SpellStats':
    • Spell name, cost, level type, spell type

Import Stats
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise (such as if you're using an item overhaul, you'll probably want to only check that overhaul).
  • What does it do? Some mods change items in order to fix bugs or to rebalance them. This ensures that these changes are kept even if another mod doesn't use the same changes.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other. Some mods may instruct you on which items should be checked.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Stats':
    • Potion/Poison weight, value
    • Ammo weight value, damage, speed, enchantment points
    • Alchemical Apparatus weight, value, quality
    • Armor weight, value, health, strength
    • Book weight, value, enchantment points
    • Clothing weight, value, enchantment points
    • Ingredient weight, value
    • Key weight, value
    • Light weight, value, duration
    • Misc weight, value
    • Sigil Stone weight, value, uses
    • Weapon weight, value, health, damage, speed, reach, enchantment points

Globals
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Sets various global values for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Tweak Actors
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Makes various changes to actors for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Tweak Assorted
  • Should you check it? Depends. The following options are recommended for all users: Bow Reach Fix, DarNified Books if you use DarN's UI, and Nvidia Fog Fix (even if you don't have an Nvidia graphics card). Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Makes various misc changes for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Tweak Clothes
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Makes various changes to clothing for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Tweak Names
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Mostly modifies names to make them sort "better" in game. Lore Friendly Names is the exception and simply replaces one word for another for consistency.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Tweak Settings
  • Should you check it? Depends. The following options are recommended for all users: UOP Vampire Aging and Face Fix.esp. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Sets various game setting values for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Cobl Catalogs
  • Should you check it? If you use COBL, yes. Otherwise, no.
  • What does it do? It updates the in game COBL catalogs to include all ingredients and effects added by your mods.
  • When does the user need it? If you use COBL and want the in game catalogs to be accurate.

Cobl Exhaustion
  • Should you check it? If you use COBL and use its Exhaustion feature, yes. Otherwise, no.
  • What does it do? It updates greater powers added by other mods that are listed in the selected csv files so that they're compatible with COBL's Exhaustion feature.
  • When does the user need it? If you use COBL and its Exhaustion feature.

Contents Checker
  • Should you check it? Yes.
  • What does it do? It checks for some errors in your active mods.
  • When does the user need it? Always. Unless you know for certain that your actives mods are safe (because you ran this option previously and haven't changed your mods).

Leveled Lists
  • Should you check it? Yes.
  • What does it do? It merges changes to leveled lists so that mods play nicely with each other.
  • When does the user need it? Always. Advanced users may want it disabled, or may want to take it off automatic.

Morph Factions
  • Should you check it? If you use COBL and Wrye Morph, yes. Otherwise, no.
  • What does it do? It updates factions so that they are more likely to work with Wrye Morph.
  • When does the user need it? If you use COBL and Wrye Morph. Then again, you should only be using Wrye Morph if you're an advanced user, so you probably aren't reading this.

Power Exhaustion
  • Should you check it? No. It is only available for backwards compatibility.
  • What does it do? It updates greater powers added by other mods so that they're compatible with Wrye's deprecated Power Exhaustion mod.
  • When does the user need it? Never. Update to COBL Exhaustion already.

Race Records
  • Should you check it? Yes. Unlike all other options, even if there are no mods on the right, it should still be selected. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to races and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same race. This ensures that those changes are kept. It also checks for and fixes various errors as described in the patch window.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other. Some mods may instruct you on which items should be checked.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Race hairs you need to tag the mod with 'Hair'.
    • Race male height, weight, tail (model path, bound radius, modt), upper body texture path, lower body texture path, hand texture path, foot texture path, tail texture path you need to tag the mod with 'Body-M'.
    • Race female height, weight, tail (model path, bound radius, modt), upper body texture path, lower body texture path, hand texture path, foot texture path, tail texture path you need to tag the mod with 'Body-F'.
    • Race male voice you need to tag the mod with 'Voice-M'.
    • Race female voice you need to tag the mod with 'Voice-F'.
    • Race teeth lower (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), or teeth upper (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Teeth'.
    • Race mouth (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), or tongue (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Mouth'.
    • Race male ears (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), or female ears (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Ears'.
    • Race head (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), Face-Gen Symmetric, Face-Gen Asymmetric, Face-Gen Texture Symmetry, or snam you need to tag the mod with 'R.Head'.
    • Race male attributes (strength, speed, etc) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Attributes-M'.
    • Race female attributes (strength, speed, etc) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Attributes-F'.
    • Race skills, skill modifiers you need to tag the mod with 'R.Skills'.
    • Race description you need to tag the mod with 'R.Description'.
    • Race factions (add/remove/change relation modifier) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Relations'.
    • Race spells (adding) you need to tag the mod with 'R.AddSpells'.
    • Race spells (removing or removing some and adding others) you need to tag the mod with 'R.ChangeSpells'. Don't use 'R.AddSpells' and 'R.ChangeSpells' at the same time.
    • Race eyes (adding,removing) you need to tag the mod with 'Eyes'.

SEWorld Tests
  • Should you check it? Yes (assuming you aren't using a really old patch).
  • What does it do? It fixes any quests that aren't suspended while your character is in the Shivering Isles.
  • When does the user need it? Always (assuming you aren't using a really old patch). If you don't have the Shivering Isles expansion, this won't do you any good, but it also won't hurt you. So it's safer to just leave it enabled.

User avatar
N3T4
 
Posts: 3428
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:36 pm

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:38 am

Good summary of options, though I almost feel evil suggesting it, perhaps a rewrite of the manual as a whole in more user-friendly terms like that is in order? :)

Also RE: BSAs from previous thread:

The only thing I'd really like to see for BSAs is the ability to pack and unpack them with Bash/BAIN. Right now that's really the only thing I use OBMM for and I'd be quite happy if I were able to toss the thing aside and only ever drag it up when I need to deal with someone who still thinks OMOD format is cool :P

I think we came to the conclusion in another thread somewhere that trying to manipulate the dates to reorder BSAs would be useless because the game decides overrides for those on a more or less random basis and in some cases it has been known to crash the game if you try and override vanilla assets with another BSA.
User avatar
Big mike
 
Posts: 3423
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:38 pm

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:13 am

Patch option reference (added as a spoiler due to length).

Spoiler

Please note, when I say that it should be checked, that only applies if there are items on the right side as well (except for one patch option which is detailed below).

Alias Mod Names
  • Should you check it? Not normally.
  • What does it do? If a file has been renamed, it allows patch options that use the original file name to know that it needs to use the new file name instead.
  • When does the user need it? If for instance, you rename Oscuros_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp to OOO.esp (for whatever reason), you'll need this option so that Bash knows that OOO.esp is really Oscuros_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp.

Merge Patches
  • Should you check it? Yes. Unless you need it, it won't help you, but it also doesn't hurt to have it active.
  • What does it do? It copies mods into the Bashed Patch so that they don't have to be active.
  • When does the user need it? If you're running out of space in your load order (Oblivion can only handle 255 mods at a time) this can merge some mods into the Bashed Patch so that you have more space. Some mods have to be merged to work properly (filter mods, Item Interchange), but this should be noted in the mod's readme.
  • When does a modder need it? If you're creating a filter or item interchange type mod. See the readme for details.

Replace Form IDs
  • Should you check it? No. This is an advanced option. If you need it, you'll know it (or be instructed to use it).
  • What does it do? It replaces a set of formIDs with another set of formIDs defined by a csv file.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to replace all usage of one item for another. For instance, P1DCandles replaces all static, non-movable candles with candles that can be picked up, moved around, stolen, etc. It only works for Oblivion.esm though. This option allows P1DCandles to work for all mods (assuming you have the original mod installed).
  • When does a modder need it? If you're systematically replacing a formID with another, this will do the work for you. It also works across all mods the user has.

Import Actors
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor aggression, confidence, energy level, responsibility, services, training skill, or training level you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.AIData'.
    • Actor skills (armorer, athletics, etc), health, attributes (strength, speed, etc) you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Stats'.
    • Actor base spell, fatigue, barter gold, level, calc min, calc max, IsBiped, six, IsEssential, IsWeaponAndShield, IsRespawn, IsSwims, IsFlies, IsWalks, IsAutoCalc, IsPCLevelOffset, IsNoLowLevel, IsNoBloodSpray, IsNoBloodDecal, IsNoHead, IsNoRightArm, IsNoLeftArm, IsNoCombatInWater, IsNoShadow IsNoRumors, IsSummonable, IsNoPersuasion, IsCanCorpseCheck you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.ACBS'.
    • NPC class you need to tag the mod with 'NPC.Class'.
    • NPC race you need to tag the mod with 'NPC.Race'.
    • Actor combat style you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.CombatStyle'.
    • Creature blood spray path, blood decal path you need to tag the mod with 'Creatures.Blood'.
    • Actor model path, bound radius, modt you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Skeleton'.

Import Actors: AIPackages
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures AI Packages and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This merges the AI Packages so that they are all present from all tagged mods.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor AI Packages you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.AIPackages'. If you're re-adding an AI Package that was previously removed, you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.AIPackagesForceAdd' as well.

Import Actors: Animations
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures animations and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This merges the animations so that they are all present from all tagged mods.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor animations you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Anims'.

Import Actors: Death Items
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures death items (items that are added to the NPC / Creature only when it dies) and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Actor Death Items you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.DeathItem'.

Import Actors: Spells
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you add or remove an actor's spell and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.Spells'. If you're re-adding a spell that was previously removed, you need to tag the mod with 'Actors.SpellsForceAdd' as well.

Import Cells
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to cells (the areas your character can enter) and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same cell. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Cell climate, or IsBehaveLikeExterior you need to tag the mod with 'C.Climate'.
    • Cell music type you need to tag the mod with 'C.Music'.
    • Cell name you need to tag the mod with 'C.Name'.
    • Cell owner, rank, global variable, or IsPublicPlace you need to tag the mod with 'C.Owner'.
    • Cell water, water height, IsHasWater you need to tag the mod with 'C.Water'.
    • Cell ambient, directional, or fog lighting you need to tag the mod with 'C.Light'.
    • Cell flags not mentioned above you need to tag the mod with 'C.RecordFlags'. Use with care, it also overrides the above flags.

Import Factions
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the factions that an NPC / Creature belongs to and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Adding a faction, removing a faction, or changing the actor's rank in a faction you need to tag the mod with 'Factions'.

Import Graphics
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever mod graphics you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the graphics of the game. This ensures that the graphics from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same graphics.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the graphics of the game, and you want those graphics to always be used even if another mod changes the graphics to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Graphics':
    • Birthsign icon path
    • Loading Screen icon path
    • Class icon path
    • Land texture icon path
    • Region icon path
    • Activator model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Door model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Flora model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Furniture model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Grass model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Static model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Potion/Poison icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Ammo icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Alchemical Apparatus icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Book icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Ingredient icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Key icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Light icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Misc icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Sigil Stone icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Soul Gem icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Weapon icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Tree icon path, model path, bound radius, or modt
    • Armor or Clothing male body (model path, bound radius, or modt), male world, male icon path, female body, female world, female icon path, or flags (IsHead, IsHair, etc)
    • Creature body parts or nift
    • Magic Effect icon path, model path, bound radius, modt, effect shader, enchant effect or light
    • Almost anything in an Effect Shader

Import Inventory
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the items that an NPC / Creature / Container start with and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature / Container. This merges all these changes.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you add, remove, or change the count of an item in an NPC / Creature / Container and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Invent'.

Import NPC Faces
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever mod has the NPC faces that you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPC faces. This ensures that the NPC faces from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC faces.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the NPC faces of the game, and you want those NPC faces to always be used even if another mod changes the NPC faces to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • NPC Face-Gen Symmetric, Face-Gen Asymmetric, Face-Gen Texture Symmetry, eyes, hair, hair length, hair color, fnam you need to tag the mod with 'NpcFaces'. You may tag it with 'NpcFacesForceFullImport' if you want all of the previous attributes to be kept even if they haven't been changed.

Import Names
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever file has the names that you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the various names in the game. This ensures that the names from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same name.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the names of things in the game, and you want those names to always be used even if another mod changes the names to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Names':
    • Class name
    • Faction name
    • Hair name
    • Eyes name
    • Race name
    • Magic Effect name
    • Enchantment name
    • Spell name
    • Birthsign name
    • Activator name
    • Alchemical Apparatus name
    • Armor name
    • Book name
    • Clothing name
    • Container name
    • Door name
    • Ingredient name
    • Light name
    • Misc name
    • Flora name
    • Furniture name
    • Weapon name
    • Ammo name
    • NPC name
    • Creature name
    • Soul Gem name
    • Key name
    • Potion/Poison name
    • Sigil Stone name
    • World name
    • Cell name
    • Dialogue name
    • Quest name

Import Relations
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the way that a faction interacts with another faction and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same faction. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you add, or change the relation that a faction has with another and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Relations'.

Import Roads
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the layout of the world, and this requires that the roads match the new layout even if another mod changes the same world. This ensures that the road is kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you change the road record of a world, and want that road kept even if the world is possibly changed by a later mod, you need to tag the mod with 'Roads'.

Import Script Contents
  • Should you check it? No.
  • What does it do? It copies the actual script into the bashed patch.
  • When does the user need it? Never.
  • When does a modder need it? Never. It has a good chance of breaking the patch unless you know exactly what you're doing. It is disabled in CBash mode for safety.

Import Scripts
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the script associated with an object and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same object. This ensures that those changes are kept.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Scripts':
    • Activator script
    • Potion/Poison script
    • Alchemical Apparatus script
    • Armor script
    • Book script
    • Clothing script
    • Container script
    • Creature script
    • Door script
    • Flora script
    • Furniture script
    • Ingredient script
    • Key script
    • Light script
    • Leveled Creature script
    • Misc script
    • NPC script
    • Quest script
    • Sigil Stone script
    • Soul Gem script
    • Weapon script

Import Sounds
  • Should you check it? Depends. This is an aesthetic choice. Choose whichever mod has the sounds that you prefer.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to the various sounds in the game. This ensures that the sounds from the mod(s) you like are preserved even if another mod changes the same sound.
  • When does the user need it? If you use a mod that changes the sounds of things in the game, and you want those sounds to always be used even if another mod changes the sounds to something else.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Sound':
    • Activator sound
    • Container open, close sounds
    • Creature foot weight, inherits sounds from, other sounds
    • Door open, close, loop sounds
    • Light sound
    • Magic Effect casting, bolt, hit, area sounds
    • Weather sounds

Import Spell Stats
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise (such as if you're using a spell overhaul, you'll probably want to only check that overhaul).
  • What does it do? Some mods change spells in order to fix bugs or to rebalance them. This ensures that these changes are kept even if another mod doesn't use the same changes.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other. Some mods may instruct you on which items should be checked.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'SpellStats':
    • Spell name, cost, level type, spell type

Import Stats
  • Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise (such as if you're using an item overhaul, you'll probably want to only check that overhaul).
  • What does it do? Some mods change items in order to fix bugs or to rebalance them. This ensures that these changes are kept even if another mod doesn't use the same changes.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other. Some mods may instruct you on which items should be checked.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept you need to tag the mod with 'Stats':
    • Potion/Poison weight, value
    • Ammo weight value, damage, speed, enchantment points
    • Alchemical Apparatus weight, value, quality
    • Armor weight, value, health, strength
    • Book weight, value, enchantment points
    • Clothing weight, value, enchantment points
    • Ingredient weight, value
    • Key weight, value
    • Light weight, value, duration
    • Misc weight, value
    • Sigil Stone weight, value, uses
    • Weapon weight, value, health, damage, speed, reach, enchantment points

Globals
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Sets various global values for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Tweak Actors
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Makes various changes to actors for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Tweak Assorted
  • Should you check it? Depends. The following options are recommended for all users: Bow Reach Fix, DarNified Books if you use DarN's UI, and Nvidia Fog Fix (even if you don't have an Nvidia graphics card). Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Makes various misc changes for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Tweak Clothes
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Makes various changes to clothing for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Tweak Names
  • Should you check it? Depends. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Mostly modifies names to make them sort "better" in game. Lore Friendly Names is the exception and simply replaces one word for another for consistency.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Tweak Settings
  • Should you check it? Depends. The following options are recommended for all users: UOP Vampire Aging and Face Fix.esp. Each option is entirely up to you and you may use or not use whatever option you want.
  • What does it do? Sets various game setting values for you.
  • When does the user need it? If you want to try one of the listed options. Each option is documented in Bash.

Cobl Catalogs
  • Should you check it? If you use COBL, yes. Otherwise, no.
  • What does it do? It updates the in game COBL catalogs to include all ingredients and effects added by your mods.
  • When does the user need it? If you use COBL and want the in game catalogs to be accurate.

Cobl Exhaustion
  • Should you check it? If you use COBL and use its Exhaustion feature, yes. Otherwise, no.
  • What does it do? It updates greater powers added by other mods that are listed in the selected csv files so that they're compatible with COBL's Exhaustion feature.
  • When does the user need it? If you use COBL and its Exhaustion feature.

Contents Checker
  • Should you check it? Yes.
  • What does it do? It checks for some errors in your active mods.
  • When does the user need it? Always. Unless you know for certain that your actives mods are safe (because you ran this option previously and haven't changed your mods).

Leveled Lists
  • Should you check it? Yes.
  • What does it do? It merges changes to leveled lists so that mods play nicely with each other.
  • When does the user need it? Always. Advanced users may want it disabled, or may want to take it off automatic.

Morph Factions
  • Should you check it? If you use COBL and Wrye Morph, yes. Otherwise, no.
  • What does it do? It updates factions so that they are more likely to work with Wrye Morph.
  • When does the user need it? If you use COBL and Wrye Morph. Then again, you should only be using Wrye Morph if you're an advanced user, so you probably aren't reading this.

Power Exhaustion
  • Should you check it? No. It is only available for backwards compatibility.
  • What does it do? It updates greater powers added by other mods so that they're compatible with Wrye's deprecated Power Exhaustion mod.
  • When does the user need it? Never. Update to COBL Exhaustion already.

Race Records
  • Should you check it? Yes. Unlike all other options, even if there are no mods on the right, it should still be selected. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
  • What does it do? Some mods make changes to races and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same race. This ensures that those changes are kept. It also checks for and fixes various errors as described in the patch window.
  • When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other. Some mods may instruct you on which items should be checked.
  • When does a modder need it? If you make changes to one of the following and it is important that the change is kept:
    • Race hairs you need to tag the mod with 'Hair'.
    • Race male height, weight, tail (model path, bound radius, modt), upper body texture path, lower body texture path, hand texture path, foot texture path, tail texture path you need to tag the mod with 'Body-M'.
    • Race female height, weight, tail (model path, bound radius, modt), upper body texture path, lower body texture path, hand texture path, foot texture path, tail texture path you need to tag the mod with 'Body-F'.
    • Race male voice you need to tag the mod with 'Voice-M'.
    • Race female voice you need to tag the mod with 'Voice-F'.
    • Race teeth lower (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), or teeth upper (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Teeth'.
    • Race mouth (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), or tongue (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Mouth'.
    • Race male ears (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), or female ears (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Ears'.
    • Race head (model path, bound radius, modt, icon path), Face-Gen Symmetric, Face-Gen Asymmetric, Face-Gen Texture Symmetry, or snam you need to tag the mod with 'R.Head'.
    • Race male attributes (strength, speed, etc) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Attributes-M'.
    • Race female attributes (strength, speed, etc) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Attributes-F'.
    • Race skills, skill modifiers you need to tag the mod with 'R.Skills'.
    • Race description you need to tag the mod with 'R.Description'.
    • Race factions (add/remove/change relation modifier) you need to tag the mod with 'R.Relations'.
    • Race spells (adding) you need to tag the mod with 'R.AddSpells'.
    • Race spells (removing or removing some and adding others) you need to tag the mod with 'R.ChangeSpells'. Don't use 'R.AddSpells' and 'R.ChangeSpells' at the same time.
    • Race eyes (adding,removing) you need to tag the mod with 'Eyes'.

SEWorld Tests
  • Should you check it? Yes (assuming you aren't using a really old patch).
  • What does it do? It fixes any quests that aren't suspended while your character is in the Shivering Isles.
  • When does the user need it? Always (assuming you aren't using a really old patch). If you don't have the Shivering Isles expansion, this won't do you any good, but it also won't hurt you. So it's safer to just leave it enabled.



This is extremely helpful, thanks! I second the request to put this in the manual. I've now rebuilt my Bashed Patch, checking all the boxes in all the "Import" categories, plus "Merge Patches", "Leveled lists", "Race Records" and "SEWorld Tests". I haev a question though. On some tabs, like "Import Spell Stats" and "Import Stats" you write "if you're using a overhaul, you'll probably want to only check that overhaul". I'm using OOO, and like I wrote earlier, have checked ALL checkboxes in these categories. Should I uncheck everything except OOO, or am I ok? Here's my load order fyi:

Spoiler
Oblivion.esm
All Natural Base.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
All Natural.esp
All Natural - SI.esp
Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp
Storms & Sound.esp
All Natural - Real Lights.esp
WindowLightingSystem.esp
Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
ChaseCameraMod.esp
ImprovedSigns.esp
Map Marker Overhaul.esp
Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCVileLair.esp
DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
OOO-No_Guild_Ownership.esp
OMOBS Optional Combat Settings.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
xuldarkforest.esp
xulStendarrValley.esp
xulTheHeath.esp
XulEntiusGorge.esp
xulFallenleafEverglade.esp
xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp
xulChorrolHinterland.esp
xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp
xulBravilBarrowfields.esp
xulLushWoodlands.esp
xulAncientYews.esp
xulAncientRedwoods.esp
xulCloudtopMountains.esp
xulArriusCreek.esp
xulPatch_AY_AC.esp
xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp
xulPantherRiver.esp
xulRiverEthe.esp
xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp
xulImperialIsle.esp
xulBlackwoodForest.esp
xulCheydinhalFalls.esp
xulAspenWood.esp
xulSkingradOutskirts.esp
xulSnowdale.esp
Oblivion XP.esp
IDKRRR_C_race_closed_mouth_version.esp
Chocolate Elves.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
SWalk.esp

User avatar
anna ley
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:04 am

Post » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:00 pm

@Everyone
I'm glad you find the summary useful. I've added it as the second post for future reference.

@Arthmoor
A quick test of the ROAD importer worked for me.

Steps I took:
1) I opened your esp in TES4Edit
2) I copied the road from Oblivion.esm as an override into a new plugin (Road Override.esp) so that the import tag would take effect.
3) The load order was: Oblivion.esm, your esp, Road Override.esp, Bashed Patch, 0.esp
4) I merged your esp (since it was tagged with deactivate), and imported the road from it. Without the import, Road Override.esp would win the conflict.
5) I opened the patch in TES4Edit and saw that the patch correctly contained the road record from your esp and not the one from Road Override.esp.

@Gabba
The non-CBash version of the formID replacer is very much a memory hog, and runs incredibly slow (20-40 minutes!)...I really don't recommend using it. The only reason it's there is because I wrote it for personal use and testing long before CBash came about. Since I already had the code, I decided to add it. The CBash version is quite a bit better on memory, but it's still a slow patcher (4-10 minutes). There are some tricks I can use to speed it up, but I'm waiting until all the bugs are squashed before I do any more optimizing.

If you don't want to use the CBash version, one thing you can do is patch Pythonw.exe so that it is LAA enabled. That will allow it to use more memory.

As for BAIN wizards, that's not something I've been involved in. Lojack was the primary author, though I think PM may have touched on it. That said, allowing arbitrary python scripts is a major security risk so I doubt it will happen. Python scripts can do anything to your computer. The BAIN wizard scripting language is intentionally limited so that it doesn't do things like format your system drive.

@Gratis_monsta
Basic BSA handling will probably happen. I need to find out the status of the BSA code that's already written, and what the plans are for it. I know that a BSA tab was planned at one point.

@Breton Paladin, wrinklyninja, and others regarding a "Move To" command for mods
The mods are sorted by date...use the "File" -> "Redate..." command to move a mod to a specific place. Also, not all mods are in the load order so it doesn't make sense to move them based on load order.

Other options:
1) Ctrl-Up / Ctrl-Down - works on one or many mods, and scrolls the list as needed
2) Drag and drop - works on one or many mods, but doesn't scroll the list. Should probably add that sometime.

@Leonardo2, wrinklyninja
Yes, it's possible. With the 255 character limit, it can get a bit tricky though. You won't be able to register all BSAs that way, but you could certainly do some. Whether we add this or not depends on what the existing plans are for handling BSA files.

@wrinklyninja
The readme could certainly use some reorganizing. It becomes a little tricky though when you realize that the entire Wrye Bash.html file is generated from the Wrye Bash.txt file. We'd have to split each section into it's own text file, and then change the code that generates the html file to link them together. Very doable, but time consuming. Nobody really wants to touch it...we'd rather be fixing bugs and adding new features.

@JdeRau
Importing quest stage & dialogue scripts can also be dangerous though admittedly less so than quest scripts. Not sure if it should be done.

@utumno
BSA files are very useful and shouldn't be entirely discarded. Assuming the BSAs are uncompressed and aren't fragmented, in theory they allow Oblivion to look up and load a file more quickly than a loose file.
User avatar
Chloe Yarnall
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:26 am

Post » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:07 pm

Good summary of options, though I almost feel evil suggesting it, perhaps a rewrite of the manual as a whole in more user-friendly terms like that is in order? :)

Very evil. Very, very evil. Bad Arthmoor! Bad! :cry:

Also RE: BSAs from previous thread:

The only thing I'd really like to see for BSAs is the ability to pack and unpack them with Bash/BAIN. Right now that's really the only thing I use OBMM for and I'd be quite happy if I were able to toss the thing aside and only ever drag it up when I need to deal with someone who still thinks OMOD format is cool :P

I think we came to the conclusion in another thread somewhere that trying to manipulate the dates to reorder BSAs would be useless because the game decides overrides for those on a more or less random basis and in some cases it has been known to crash the game if you try and override vanilla assets with another BSA.

That sounds right to me. BSAs should only be used with new content.

This is extremely helpful, thanks! I second the request to put this in the manual.
...snip...
Should I uncheck everything except OOO, or am I ok?

There isn't really room in the manual for a large addition like that (not unless we begin restructuring it, as suggested). For now, I'll keep it as the second post in any new thread.

This should be ok.

This isn't directed at you specifically, but note that in that reference post, when I say mods, I mean just that, mods. Don't check any of the csv files unless you know that they're what you want.
User avatar
Damned_Queen
 
Posts: 3425
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:18 pm

Post » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:43 pm

@JdeRau
Importing quest stage & dialogue scripts can also be dangerous though admittedly less so than quest scripts. Not sure if it should be done.

If I remember correctly, it was PM that originally added the code for ScriptContents to Wrye Bash. Best idea would probably be to bring this up with him.


Not sure BSAs help performance :confused: - I think people use them to install/uninstall easily - but with BAIN that's not an issue
and they do add to the 400 espms+bsas limit

If I correctly recall, the performance benefit is like so:
-If your mod's resources consist of loose files in the Data directory, the game has to physically search the hard drive for those files when required, made harder if your de-fragmentation program places the files in separate physical locations.
-If the mod's resources are all in a BSA, the game simply has to read the BSAs' indexes to find the required files then read those portions of the BSAs. Also notable is that all the files in a BSA get de-fragmented into one location on the HD.
User avatar
Cesar Gomez
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:06 am

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:17 am

Import Actors
* Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
* What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
* When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.

I've a question concerning this. Specifically the statement "All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise." By this do you mean that we need tag all or mods with Import Actors (even those that are just clothing items, AWLS, and the like?) then insure that all tags are checked when building a patch? Or do you simply mean that whenever a particular mod or mods is tagged for Import Actors those tags should be checked when building a patch?

-Decrepit-
User avatar
Sammygirl
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:15 pm

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:38 am

@Arthmoor
A quick test of the ROAD importer worked for me.

Steps I took:
1) I opened your esp in TES4Edit
2) I copied the road from Oblivion.esm as an override into a new plugin (Road Override.esp) so that the import tag would take effect.
3) The load order was: Oblivion.esm, your esp, Road Override.esp, Bashed Patch, 0.esp
4) I merged your esp (since it was tagged with deactivate), and imported the road from it. Without the import, Road Override.esp would win the conflict.
5) I opened the patch in TES4Edit and saw that the patch correctly contained the road record from your esp and not the one from Road Override.esp.


A scenario like that works as expected, but it's also not overly realistic.

Here's what I have:

1) Oblivion.esm containing the master ROAD record.
2) UOP contains updated, fixed ROAD record. Not being imported as it's expected to be overridden.
3) Loose mod containing only the ROAD record, tagged with Import Roads, Deactivate.

Using non-CBash, the loose road record file is imported into the patch as expected.

Using CBash, no ROAD record is imported at all, therefore leaving the UOP as the last mod to modify the record. Which is not desirable. The loose record file needs to get imported because those changes ARE important, and it needs to happen even if Oblivion.esm is the only mod file with a ROAD record in it.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2632/missingroad.jpg
User avatar
Susan
 
Posts: 3536
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:46 am

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:36 am

I'm not following. You do realize that the mod tagged with Import Roads, Deactivate has to be active in some way (either active or merged) for it to have any effect at all? The road importer doesn't allow non-active mods to be imported from.

With CBash, and that described setup, the road record in the mod tagged with Import Roads, Deactivate is the newest version of the record. Which is the expected result, yes?
User avatar
Nicola
 
Posts: 3365
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:57 am

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:55 am

Is the Harvest Chance tweak (Tweak Assorted) compatible with Harvest Flora?
User avatar
oliver klosoff
 
Posts: 3436
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:02 am

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:09 am

Yes. Why wouldn't it be?

Harvest Flora changes the model and script on flora. Harvest Chance changes the chance of harvesting. No conflict there.
User avatar
Felix Walde
 
Posts: 3333
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:50 pm

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:07 am

Import Actors
* Should you check it? Yes. All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise.
* What does it do? Some mods make changes to NPCs and Creatures and want those changes to be preserved even if another mod changes the same NPC / Creature. This ensures that those changes are kept.
* When does the user need it? Normally always. Advanced users may prefer to keep changes from one mod and not the other.

I've a question concerning this. Specifically the statement "All mods should probably be checked unless you are told otherwise." By this do you mean that we need tag all or mods with Import Actors (even those that are just clothing items, AWLS, and the like?) then insure that all tags are checked when building a patch? Or do you simply mean that whenever a particular mod or mods is tagged for Import Actors those tags should be checked when building a patch?

-Decrepit-

All of your mods that need tagging should Allready be Tagged, either by Bash or BOSS, you can right click in the Bash Tags window and verify that they are set to Automatic...
User avatar
Pants
 
Posts: 3440
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:34 am

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:13 am

I'm not following. You do realize that the mod tagged with Import Roads, Deactivate has to be active in some way (either active or merged) for it to have any effect at all? The road importer doesn't allow non-active mods to be imported from.


Then frankly I'd consider that broken, as the record in question is from Oblivion.esm, and the proper behavior is being honored via the non-CBash method because the little plugin is importing for a new version of the record.

With CBash, and that described setup, the road record in the mod tagged with Import Roads, Deactivate is the newest version of the record. Which is the expected result, yes?


The mod tagged with "Import Roads, Deactivate" is the one with the updated record. It is expected that this will get imported as directed, in the same manner that "Import Graphics" mods are if they're meant to override an existing record.

It's not a ROAD record from a [i]new[/]i mod, which I'd then expect to be ignored.

Perhaps it's all a moot point though, at least in this case, because CBash can just merge the contents instead.
User avatar
Guinevere Wood
 
Posts: 3368
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:06 pm

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:38 am

It isn't broken...it's doing exactly what it's designed to do. By design, very few patchers are supposed to allow importing from non-active mods.

The CBash patchers were written so that it has to be explicitly enabled in code, but the non-CBash patchers aren't as well written. Some of the patchers will work on non-active mods even though they're not technically supposed to. Frankly, the non-CBash patchers are a bit of a mess (which is part of what prompted CBash in the first place).

For a patcher to be considered for allowing non-active mods:
1) Any changes should be trivial.
2) Until recently, it wasn't supposed to use formIDs. I know the face patcher did, but it shouldn't have. See above about it being a mess.
3) It should only replace or add data. It shouldn't result in any data being lost. This makes the importer less likely to break active mods.
4) Ideally, it should be a matter of personal preference.
5) Most importantly, it should replicate an entire class of mod, allowing those mods to remain deactivated.

The patchers that allow non-active mods are:
Graphics - Satisfies #1, #2 (except for a few magic effect fields), #3, #4, and #5 (lots of mods only modify the graphics).
Animations - Satisfies #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5 (lots of mods only modify the animations).
Relations - Satisfies #1, and #3. FormIDs were already being filtered, so it sort of satisfied #2 as well though #2 is of minor importance now. Arguably, it does have a major effect in game as it can control whether factions fight with each other.
Names - Satisfies #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5 (lots of mods only modify the name).
Faces - Satisfies #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5 (lots of mods only modify faces).
Stats - Satisfies #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5 (lots of mods only rebalance stats). Arguably, it could be seen as having a major effect in game, but it's mostly a matter of preference.
Spell Stats - Satisfies #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5 (lots of mods only rebalance stats). Arguably, it could be seen as having a major effect in game, but it's mostly a matter of preference.

Now, the CBash road patcher can be changed to allow importing from non-active mods, but it only satisfies #2.
Replacing an entire record is not considered trivial, but the road record is pretty much all or nothing, so I can ignore #1.
Again, a road record is pretty much all or nothing, so I can ignore #3.
#4 can be argued either way.
#5 fails. I don't know of any mods that only modifies road records. As I understand it, changes to the road record are normally accompanied by other changes (LAND edits, reference placements that stick buildings in the middle of a road, etc) and are dependent on these changes to make sense.

So 1 for, 1 against, and the others don't really matter in this case. At this point I need a tie breaker. I'm open to being convinced.

Why would you want to import roads from a non-active mod? Give me a use case that depends on importing roads from non-active mods.
User avatar
Rachell Katherine
 
Posts: 3380
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:21 pm

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:53 am

That said, allowing arbitrary python scripts is a major security risk so I doubt it will happen. Python scripts can do anything to your computer. The BAIN wizard scripting language is intentionally limited so that it doesn't do things like format your system drive.

Well, I don't want to minimize the very real security risk, but as I mentioned if someone really wants to damage your system I believe OBMM scripts allow you to execute pretty much anything. Or he could tell you to download a malicious OBSE plugin that you install manually or through BAIN, and on next Oblivion run: "hey, this is taking a long time to load" *poof* no more data on your disk.
Fortunately fake and malicious mods seem to be cleaned up pretty quickly from TESNexus.

Of course it's better if BAIN wizards keep improving to fill all needs AND stays perfectly secure. However in some cases the needs are a bit complex, for instance Ulrim's horses and Horse Armor revamped import resources from the DLCHorseArmor.bsa into their own and seem to hex edit some stuff (modify/combine nifs maybe?). So in this case a python script that triggers a big warning before executing may make sense, and only a few high-profile mods will have those anyways, making a nobody-mod that asks you to execute this kind of script highly suspicious.

If I correctly recall, the performance benefit is like so:
-If your mod's resources consist of loose files in the Data directory, the game has to physically search the hard drive for those files when required, made harder if your de-fragmentation program places the files in separate physical locations.
-If the mod's resources are all in a BSA, the game simply has to read the BSAs' indexes to find the required files then read those portions of the BSAs. Also notable is that all the files in a BSA get de-fragmented into one location on the HD.

Exactly. To help with the scattered files issue I use http://www.mydefrag.com/ with a custom script (very simple to write, really) to sort together all Oblivion files near the beginning of my disk (i.e. the fastest part). But with a regular defragmenter what you describe is true, and I suspect a BSA to be more efficient than even single files that are together on the disk.
While I'm at it, here's my custom MyDefrag script if someone is interested (don't be a noob by using it as-is, please); it only makes room at the beginning of the disk for some system files and Oblivion + a small gap of empty space, and sorts them there. It doesn't defragment any other files, even though you could easily modify it to do so.
Spoiler

# MyDefrag v4.0 script

Title('Oblivion sort and move to fast part of disk')
Description("Oblivion sort and move to fast part of disk") // See the "Settings.MyD" file.

/* Write the header to the logfile. See the "Settings.MyD" file for the
definition of the "LogHeader" string. */
WriteLogfile("MyOblivionDefrag.log","LogHeader")

/* Select and process the volumes one by one. */
VolumeSelect
Name("d:")
VolumeActions

/* Write the "before" statistics to the logfile. See the "Settings.MyD" file
for the definition of the "LogBefore" string. */
AppendLogfile("MyOblivionDefrag.log","LogBefore")

/* Zone 1: Place the MFT and some other special NTFS files. */
FileSelect
SelectNtfsSystemFiles(yes)
FileActions
PlaceNtfsSystemFiles(Ascending,MftSize * 0.01)
FileEnd

/* Zone 2: Directories. */
FileSelect
Directory(yes)
FileActions
SortByName(Ascending)
FileEnd

MakeGap(RoundUp(ZoneBegin,VolumeSize * 0.001))

/* Zone 3: Oblivion. */
FileSelect
DirectoryPath("d:\jeux\Oblivion")
FileActions
SortByName(Ascending)
# Add a gap 1% of the volume size:
AddGap(ZoneEnd + VolumeSize * 0.05)
FileEnd

/* Write the "after" statistics to the logfile. See the "Settings.MyD" file
for the definition of the "LogAfter" string. */
AppendLogfile("MyOblivionDefrag.log.log","LogAfter")

VolumeEnd

/* Write the footer to the logfile. See the "Settings.MyD" file for the
definition of the "LogFooter" string. */
AppendLogfile("MyOblivionDefrag.log.log","LogFooter")


User avatar
Kanaoka
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:24 pm

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:43 am

So 1 for, 1 against, and the others don't really matter in this case. At this point I need a tie breaker. I'm open to being convinced.

Why would you want to import roads from a non-active mod? Give me a use case that depends on importing roads from non-active mods.


Because I don't see why it should be the modder's burden to make 50 different versions of the same mod simply because the road record is changed in each one.

Right now, I have:

The UOP/UOPS - Bugfixed road record for the vanilla game. This one is embedded in the UOP because it doesn't matter if it gets overridden later.

NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp - Vanilla record modified with NRB4's road changes.
NRB4 OCReborn Road Record.esp - Road record intended for use with OCR and NRB4 at the same time.
Open Cities Reborn Road Record.esp - Road record for use with ONLY OCR.
Open Cities Classic Road Record.esp - Modified vanilla record for use ONLY with Open Cities Classic.

These are kept separate because it's just way easier to import the changed road record from the isolated plugins vs being forced to create multiple identical versions of the same mods with these records in it.

Now, at this point, it appears the only real argument is keeping the non-CBash behavior the way it is. These isolated plugins can be merged if one is using CBash. So in the end it doesn't matter, but I'm certainly not going to expend the effort to have dozens of combinations of OCC/OCR/NRB4 floating around because Bash is being gimped in this area for people who aren't using CBash. Bash is supposed to be making this stuff easier on user and modders not on the program's developers.

Apologies if that came off as an angry rant.
User avatar
keri seymour
 
Posts: 3361
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:09 am

Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:39 pm

Considering the effort I've already invested in Bash and CBash, I admit that I'm slightly irked. I apologize in advance if that colors the following post.

It has nothing to do with saving me effort...it's an easy change to make. I have to add exactly one line of code to enable non-active mods for any CBash patcher. Then, if the patcher copies formIDs, I have to add a handful more lines of code to filter them as appropriate.

It has everything to do with me (or any other Bash developer) needing to understand why a change is needed. Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done. Depending on why a change is wanted, it may make more sense to create a new patcher than change an existing one, or it may be possible with existing functionality that is being overlooked.

I posted some of the things I consider when thinking about allowing an importer to use non-active mods so that you could see where I was coming from. I asked for a use case so that I could see where you were coming from. That's all. I would think that this would be appreciated.

Now, you say that you have a series of road patches designed to work with different combinations of mods. In other words, compatibility patches. These patches are NOT mergeable with non-CBash because non-CBash disables support for merging world records for performance reasons.

In this case, the import road tag is doing two things:
1) It is forcing non-CBash to merge the record.
2) It is ensuring that the tagged record beats any non-tagged record.

#1 is not standard behavior for an importer, but it is a necessary work-around.

With CBash on the other hand, this work-around isn't needed. These patches can be directly merged without requiring the import road tag.

In this case, the import road tag is doing one thing:
1) It is ensuring that the tagged record beats any non-tagged record.

This is very much standard behavior for an importer.

The problem as I see it is the inconsistency between what the tag does on non-CBash and CBash. For non-CBash, you just have to use the road importer to also merge the record. For CBash, you have to merge the patch and use the road importer. Both procedures result in the same Bashed Patch.

I don't like non-standard behavior. It makes bugs for the end user more likely. Especially when (like this time) this non-standard behavior isn't documented in the code. When it isn't documented, I have to spend more time thinking than doing. I'm not going to change something until I think I fully understand it. Sometimes this will come across as me being pedantic in my questions. That's the nature of the beast.

As much as I dislike non-standard behavior, I like inconsistencies for the end user even less. So something needs to be done.

Possible solutions:
1) Instruct the user to check the mod for merging if CBash is enabled. I don't like this option. The user is much more likely to mess up if he has to do different things to accomplish the same goal. CBash is supposed to be mostly transparent to the end user.
2) Change non-CBash to allow merging of world records and sub-records. Non-CBash and CBash would use the same procedure (tick merge mod and the road import) and the non-CBash version would use standard behavior. This would be ideal, but I can't use this option. It would break backwards compatibility. Existing users of the road import tag would have to change how they use the tag, and many won't know that they need to. Also, and no less importantly, the non-CBash patch would take even longer to make. It's disabled on non-CBash for a reason.
3) Change CBash to import road records from non-active mods. Non-CBash and CBash would use the same procedure (just tick the road import). I don't like this option, but I like the other two options even less.

So it looks like the CBash road importer will get changed. I'll have spent more time on this post than it will take to make the changes, and I'll spend more time documenting the code than making the changes. I should have it done tomorrow.
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Lynne Hinton
 
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Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:48 pm

Thank you. I know we both got a bit irked in there but I think it's all worked out in the end, yes?
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yermom
 
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Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:42 am

This isn't directed at you specifically, but note that in that reference post, when I say mods, I mean just that, mods. Don't check any of the csv files unless you know that they're what you want.


You should probably specify that in the reference post, it's not very obvious to someone who is unfamiliar with Wrye Bash (that is, exactly the sort of person who would be reading the reference).
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Maya Maya
 
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Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:07 am

Hi all. Just got back from vacation and got caught alllllll the way up on this thread. I've been collecting ideas for the Installers tab (notably from Gabba, Gratis_monsta, Malonn, and gaticus), combining them with some of my own, and am putting together a proposal document and technology demo. I'm not promising anything soon -- I'm just learning Python -- but I just wanted to let people know that their ideas are not being ignored.
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Kit Marsden
 
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Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:13 pm

Yes. Why wouldn't it be?

Harvest Flora changes the model and script on flora. Harvest Chance changes the chance of harvesting. No conflict there.

I don't know. From all the HF+100% mods uploaded on TESNexus, I figured there must be something to it, but I guess not, ha-ha.


Thanks, and nice work on the summary, very helpful.
- Tomlong75210
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Eilidh Brian
 
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Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:47 am

I don't know. From all the HF+100% mods uploaded on TESNexus, I figured there must be something to it, but I guess not, ha-ha.
Thanks, and nice work on the summary, very helpful.
- Tomlong75210


Perhaps the Bash tweak didn't exist when those mods were done. Or they were like me and didn't realize a Bash tweak existed :) Or they're for all the people who are allergic to Bash ;)

I actually customized Harvest Flora myself to add a higher harvest chance (not 100% for everything), so yeah, there shouldn't be a conflict.
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sam westover
 
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Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:20 pm

Thank you. I know we both got a bit irked in there but I think it's all worked out in the end, yes?

Yeah. It wouldn't be the internet if people didn't grouse, not see eye-to-eye, and come across as more belligerent than they meant. All's good. Will get the updated road patcher up shortly.

You should probably specify that in the reference post, it's not very obvious to someone who is unfamiliar with Wrye Bash (that is, exactly the sort of person who would be reading the reference).

Good point. I'll add it.

Hi all. Just got back from vacation and got caught alllllll the way up on this thread. I've been collecting ideas for the Installers tab (notably from Gabba, Gratis_monsta, Malonn, and gaticus), combining them with some of my own, and am putting together a proposal document and technology demo. I'm not promising anything soon -- I'm just learning Python -- but I just wanted to let people know that their ideas are not being ignored.

I'll be curious to see what you've accomplished.

I don't know. From all the HF+100% mods uploaded on TESNexus, I figured there must be something to it, but I guess not, ha-ha.


Thanks, and nice work on the summary, very helpful.
- Tomlong75210


Perhaps the Bash tweak didn't exist when those mods were done. Or they were like me and didn't realize a Bash tweak existed :) Or they're for all the people who are allergic to Bash ;)

I actually customized Harvest Flora myself to add a higher harvest chance (not 100% for everything), so yeah, there shouldn't be a conflict.

Pretty much what andalaybay said.

Also, quite a few of those HF +100% mods are of the auto-harvest variety and require a script to work. If auto-harvest mods take the obvious route and place the script on the flora, they aren't compatible with HF. They can make it partially compatible if they merge their script with HF's (in which case it wouldn't be compatible with future HF scripts). So, the HF 100% auto-harvest mods add the script to a quest or token instead, so that the actual flora is untouched.
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Alexander Lee
 
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Post » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:40 am

I'm not sure Witch version it came out on, but the HF tweak Is fairly recent...
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Krystina Proietti
 
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