[RELZ] Wrye Bash -- Thread #38 : IV - Oblivion

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:34 am

What would it solve to change Wrye Bash's supported directory structure?

It would allow mods that have the ini files in the ini folder to be installed by Wrye Bash without having to manually install the ini folder afterwards. The way it works know, Wrye Bash intentionally wrecks the install of such mods, including all of kuertee's mods and some of mine, with no other reason that Wrye didn't like the ini name of the folder containing ini files.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:12 pm

SVN ##213-219
This error not fixed?
Links:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081915-relz-wrye-bash/page__view__findpost__p__15806963
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081915-relz-wrye-bash/page__view__findpost__p__15807264
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081915-relz-wrye-bash/page__view__findpost__p__15809944

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:50 am

It would allow mods that have the ini files in the ini folder to be installed by Wrye Bash without having to manually install the ini folder afterwards. The way it works know, Wrye Bash intentionally wrecks the install of such mods, including all of kuertee's mods and some of mine, with no other reason that Wrye didn't like the ini name of the folder containing ini files.

His tool - his rule!

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:36 am

His tool - his rule!

True, but that doesn't change the fact that the only effect of this rule is to give people problems when installing such mods using BAIN.

I understand and agree to the principle of trying to avoid installing clutter readme files etc. But with OBSE there are reasons for having .txt or .ini files in other folders that those BAIN approves of. As I see it, we must either live with the fact that BAIN doesn't install those correctly, and will continue to give problems to people not aware of this, or get BAIN to allow installations of files in non-standard folders. I have mods that need non-standard folders, and I try to make my mods BAIN-friendly, but as it is now, there's little I can do, except warn people agains using BAIN to install them, which is far from the optimal solution.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:39 am

SVN ##213-219
This error not fixed?
Links:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081915-relz-wrye-bash/page__view__findpost__p__15806963
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081915-relz-wrye-bash/page__view__findpost__p__15807264
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081915-relz-wrye-bash/page__view__findpost__p__15809944

Please check TESNexus or the top of the thread or something, same version number (v280) = not fixed yet.

@TheNiceOne: It would be simpler if everyone just put the INIs in the Data folder, especially if it is only one. Sort your Data folder by "type," no clutter, organized. Adding exceptions for every possible INI folder would be a pain. Also, I have not had to manually install the INIs from any mod I use yet. The only manual installation I have to do is put your price files in the Data folder (in the Enhanced Economy folder.) Why can't they go in Docs?...no matter....

Okay, well I do not think the code should be super complicated with exceptions, but it would be nice if there were one folder, but there is...Scripts? If authors are conscious of BAIN, when not stick the INIs in there so that everyone is not just bickering. The folder is already there. (I had no clue and I have 20 INIs in my Data folder, directly and in subfolders.) You say that Wrye's rule gives modders trouble, but modders do not seem to be conforming at all either. I do not have not downloaded one, out all thousand plus mods I have downloaded, with an INI in the Scripts folder.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:12 am

@TheNiceOne: It would be simpler if everyone just put the INIs in the Data folder, especially if it is only one. Sort your Data folder by "type," no clutter, organized. Adding exceptions for every possible INI folder would be a pain. Also, I have not had to manually install the INIs from any mod I use yet. The only manual installation I have to do is put your price files in the Data folder (in the Enhanced Economy folder.) Why can't they go in Docs?...no matter....

I think some history is in order. A year (or a bit more) ago, a discussion started about ini files, and many wanted them in a separate folder. I started a thread about it, where people could vote for their preferred location. Options were the data folder, an ini folder, and a couple of other options I don't remember. The ini folder won by a very large margin. After that several mod makers, including myself started to use an ini folder for ini files.

Sometimes after this, someone else than Wrye (maybe PacificMorrowind?) added support for this folder in BAIN, and most people was happy. But then Wrye emerged and decided to remove the support for this folder because he had previously suggested and added a "scripts" folder for ini files. The fact that the majority preferred the ini folder, several mods used the ini folder and not a single mod used the scripts folder was not enough to change his mind.

So now we're in a situation where some mods use the ini folder and BAIN purges that folder during the install. There is also the case of Enhanced Economy's additional folder of course-

Okay, well I do not think the code should be super complicated with exceptions, but it would be nice if there were one folder, but there is...Scripts? If authors are conscious of BAIN, when not stick the INIs in there so that everyone is not just bickering. The folder is already there. (I had no clue and I have 20 INIs in my Data folder, directly and in subfolders.) You say that Wrye's rule gives modders trouble, but modders do not seem to be conforming at all either.

We did have a poll before we started to use the ini folder, so if anything, the ini folder is the conformant place.
The scripts folder is a bad choice, partly because it is much less descriptive than the ini folder, partly because people are used to the ini folder, and partly because several of the mods using the ini folder are not actively supported anymore.

I do not have not downloaded one, out all thousand plus mods I have downloaded, with an INI in the Scripts folder.

And I don't think a single mod is using it.

I understand this is a sensitive topic. Not because it would be any hard to add ini folder support to BAIN, but because Wrye disapproved of it, and I understand that the people who have taken over are reluctant to step on his toes.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:29 am

I voted in your poll. I voted for the Data folder I think. I agree that the "scripts" folder can be misleading for users. However, I also do not have a mod that uses the "INI" folder either. The only consistent folder modders seem to use is the Data folder, and I think INIs are important enough and tweaked enough to stay there. No one will miss them in that folder, not even BAIN.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:48 pm

I've got eight in the DATA folder, three in the INI folder, three in special mod named folders, and no Scripts folder at all.

Some consistency would be nice, but I worry it's too late for that. Which means, to me, that Wrye Bash has to adapt to reality rather than trying to establish a rule.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:27 am

I have ~0 in the data folder, about ~7 in _tejon and Kuertee added a folder with 4 template INIs in it (but the main Horse Commands INI is in the Data folder.) Oh, I forgot about Streamline. Yup, there is that one too. I do not get how Kuertee's INIs were installed though, those in the special folder. I do not remember what the folder is called either. It only has the four template INIs in it too...

» Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:26 pm

So I've got this error, probably my fault, using version 280, and i was hoping someone would point me in the direction of where i messed something up

Spoiler

Traceback (most recent call last):  File "G:\Games\Oblivion\Mopy\basher.py", line 4516, in Execute    raise  File "G:\Games\Oblivion\Mopy\basher.py", line 4478, in Execute    patchFile.buildPatch(log,SubProgress(progress,0.8,0.9))  File "G:\Games\Oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 13872, in buildPatch    patcher.buildPatch(log,SubProgress(subProgress,index))  File "G:\Games\Oblivion\Mopy\bosh.py", line 19182, in buildPatch    race.eyes.sort(key=lambda x: eyeNames.get(x))AttributeError: 'set' object has no attribute 'sort'

thanks.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:36 pm

No, that is the same v280 bug that at least 20 of the more recent post contain. In fact, there is a link to three of them 8 posts above yours at #52. Man, if I see that post again...

Edit: I meant "No," you did not do something wrong. The bug should be fixed in version 281.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:04 am

BAIN: Would it be possible to add CRC or simple size checks for Meshes, Textures and Sounds that are conflicting to see if they are different files or just duplicates used by different mods?

» Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:38 pm

Doesn't it already do that? If I have to packages installed that contain the exact same meshes and textures, both files are green. Maybe I simply do not understand your question. BAIN uses CRC calculations for everything I thought...

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:08 am

Doesn't it already do that? If I have to packages installed that contain the exact same meshes and textures, both files are green. Maybe I simply do not understand your question. BAIN uses CRC calculations for everything I thought...

I'm thinking of individual nifs and dds'es, not the archive files.
BTW, isn't it time for you to get an avatar soon?

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:20 am

I cannot figure out how to get one. None of the sites let you link to anything. What would be the significance of BAIN being able to tell you the difference between individual files like that? That sounds like a different tool...

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:08 pm

What would be the significance of BAIN being able to tell you the difference between individual files like that? That sounds like a different tool...

Well, sometime mods use the same resources and that will show up as conflicts when installing with BAIN. If BAIN could also provide the byte size of the individual file conflicting it would be easy to see at a glance if there is a real conflict, or if the mods just share the excact same resources.

As for avatars, mine is linked from Photobucket.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:00 pm

I thought about that, the avatar linked to my own photo upload thing...maybe a little later. About the file conflict thing, I thought you just said that you were not talking about archives. I have not seen false conflicts in Bash, outside of shaders. If they share the exact same resources, BAIN does not show a conflict, as far as I have seen. Do you have any concrete examples?

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:03 pm

About the file conflict thing, I thought you just said that you were not talking about archives. I have not seen false conflicts in Bash, outside of shaders. If they share the exact same resources, BAIN does not show a conflict, as far as I have seen. Do you have any concrete examples?

http://bildr.no/view/621683 I'd like a way to know if these conflicting files are duplicates or different versions.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:26 pm

That looks perfectly fine to me. I cannot see OOO's package, but RBP's is yellow showing override with some files that are not the same. The package you have selected is green, and the conflicts show that below it there are files that do not match. There is no inconsistency. BAIN does use CRC's to calculate differences. It does the same with BCF's and plugins. That is why BCF's are completely sensitive to updates.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:37 am

That looks perfectly fine to me. I cannot see OOO's package, but RBP's is yellow showing override with some files that are not the same. The package you have selected is green, and the conflicts show that below it there are files that do not match. There is no inconsistency. BAIN does use CRC's to calculate differences. It does the same with BCF's and plugins. That is why BCF's are completely sensitive to updates.

So WB will only report a conflict if there is a byte size difference between the conflicting files?

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:23 am

So WB will only report a conflict if there is a byte size difference between the conflicting files?

Yep. As long as the CRC calculation picks up a difference, WB will report it as conflicting. In the interest of full disclosure, there is a possibility of two different files having the same CRC (and then confusing the hell out of BAIN), but it is fairly unlikely unless it was done deliberately. In other words, it's nothing to worry about. If it ever does become a problem, BAIN could switch to MD5's, but those take longer to compute and more memory to store.

Edit2:
Removed potentially misleading bug report. For the curious, it was the result of upgrading the 7z dll which isn't supported just yet.

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:20 am

PetrusOvanicus, the BAIN packages in your screen shot are fine. What are you worried about? Is there something else that is wrong?

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:26 am

Edit2:
Removed potentially misleading bug report. For the curious, it was the result of upgrading the 7z dll which isn't supported just yet.

Glad to see that, just downlaoding when you posted the initial problem... been looking forward to this release

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:53 pm

THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE!!!!! I cannot use it at all yet, but I will imagine it! ^___^

» Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:15 am

PetrusOvanicus,

Heh. that was a new one.

the BAIN packages in your screen shot are fine. What are you worried about? Is there something else that is wrong?

Just that I'll end up using the wrong set of resource files. For example, are the Dreadweave Armour from FCOM better than the one from CNRP? Or is it the other way around? It's not a big deal really, but I decided to leave as little as possible to chance with the game I'm preparing this time.