[Chavala]

The best option is to download a tool that can change a file date, and change the dates of the files in data\* folders that you want to override the BSA.

Or turn this into a feature request for some form of BSA management within Wrye Bash

[Nomee]

Or turn this into a feature request for some form of BSA management within Wrye Bash

I already did that in the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1105224-relz-wrye-bash-thread-47/page__view__findpost__p__16209248.

I'm not 100% sure that is the best option, some further tests into BSA behavior when more than one BSA contain the same file is needed, but I am atm not sure how to test it.

Maybe the files in the BSA need to be removed/renamed to ensure that there are no conflicts.

[CYCO JO-NATE]

You could use "reset BSA timestamps" in OBMMs Utilities->Archive Invalidation, ONLY use this if you don't have any BSA that replaces anything in the game.

The best option is to download a tool that can change a file date, and change the dates of the files in data\* folders that you want to override the BSA.

...??

I have a file redater linked here - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=programs_and_utilities <-- There should have been two...

H2Odk, did you have a redirection BSA registered in the INI file during your testing?

[Smokey]

...??

I have a file redater linked here - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=programs_and_utilities <-- There should have been two...

H2Odk, did you have a redirection BSA registered in the INI file during your testing?

Yes

[Micah Judaeah]

Yes

Did you perform all of the same tests with it removed?

[Vicky Keeler]

Did you perform all of the same tests with it removed?

No, I was only interested in investigating behavior with BSA-redirection since that is the option that is recommended by most. I do mention this in my thread about my findings.

[Bones47]

No, I was only interested in investigating behavior with BSA-redirection since that is the option that is recommended by most. I do mention this in my thread about my findings.

I think you should do all the testing without the BSA, considering that a redirection BSA can have any number of files in it.


Edit: During your test where you registered another BSA to the INI file, you effectively had two redirection BSAs in the sArchiveList. The situation with the MMM BSA is kind of troublesome. If you think about it, it make sense for Oblivion to overlook replacer files in the BSA if it only serves to redirect Oblivion toward the Data folder. If the redirect fails, then it sticks with the originals. That's one way to think about it, I guess.

[Bryanna Vacchiano]

I think you should do all the testing without the BSA, considering that a redirection BSA can have any number of files in it.


Edit: During your test where you registered another BSA to the INI file, you effectively had two redirection BSAs in the sArchiveList. The situation with the MMM BSA is kind of troublesome. If you think about it, it make sense for Oblivion to overlook replacer files in the BSA if it only serves to redirect Oblivion toward the Data folder. If the redirect fails, then it sticks with the originals. That's one way to think about it, I guess.

I am not sure what you mean by "a redirection BSA"... I initially thought you meant the Archive Invalidation bsa, the bsa used to "trick" oblivion into do BSA-redirection.

If you on the other hand meant a bsa with replacement files in it, I did that in many ways. 1 bsa in the INI, 2 in the INI, 1 in the INI and one loaded via esp.. with various names, dates and placement in the INI and loaded via esp. I also tried it with both textures and meshes.

I am sure I didn't try everything, because then I would still be testing

[David Chambers]

I am not sure what you mean by "a redirection BSA"... I initially thought you meant the Archive Invalidation bsa, the bsa used to "trick" oblivion into do BSA-redirection.

If you on the other hand meant a bsa with replacement files in it, I did that in many ways. 1 bsa in the INI, 2 in the INI, 1 in the INI and one loaded via esp.. with various names, dates and placement in the INI and loaded via esp. I also tried it with both textures and meshes.

I am sure I didn't try everything, because then I would still be testing

An archive invalidaiton BSA is a redirection BSA. Its purpose is to redirect whatever process loads the files.


Edit: To be clear, no, I did not mean a BSA containing replacer files. I do not think that the files in the BSA matter, so any BSA registered in the INI file, then, serves as a redirection BSA, in part.

[Marnesia Steele]

I finally have just about everything converted from OMODs to BAIN packages and am studying install order (as opposed to ESM/ESP load-order). I think I understand the gist of it, though many of my mods are hard to categorize (I'll post a listing for review later on). But at the moment I'm a bit confused by terminology. I mean, I think I know how it works, but that doesn't jive with what I read on the Wrye Bash help pages. I quote...

? Install Order

• When you install a package, then the order of higher packages will be respected. I.e. if the package being installed conflicts with a higher order package that's already active, then it won't overwrite the files from the higher package. Rather, only the files that don't conflict with higher packages will be installed. (However, if you want to overwrite later packages, then you can use the "Install Last" command, which will move the selected packages to the end of the list and then install them.)

What exactly is meant by "higher order packages"? For example, I have separate packages for both the UOP and its most recent hotfix. Let's say they are numbered thusly:

• 03 UnofficialOblivionPatch3.2.0_BAIN.7z
  
• 04 UOP_hotfix_3.2.9_BAIN.7z

Of the two, I consider 03 as the higher order package, since it is higher on the list (and on-screen). But I obviously want the hotfix to overwrite it in any conflict, which according to Wrye instructions as I interpret it will not happen. I'd need to reverse placement for the hotfix to win out.

I went ahead and installed 'em as shown above and am pretty sure the hotfix wins out with my positioning.

My guess is the that Wrye instructions associate "higher package" to mean one with a larger (but lower on the list) number, rather than a package higher on the list with a correspondingly lower numeric value.

Do I have everyone confused yet?

Anyway, I'd appreciate someone clarifying the situation.

Thanks!

-Decrepit & Confused-

[Isabella X]

Higher number = higher order

Think of it this way. The 03 archive is installed before the 04 archive, which means that 04 overwrites 03.

BAIN Installation - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=bain_installation

Installing Mods - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=installing_mods

My BAIN Package List - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=my_bain_package_list

[oliver klosoff]

Higher number = higher order

Think of it this way. The 03 archive is installed before the 04 archive, which means that 04 overwrites 03.

BAIN Installation - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=bain_installation

Installing Mods - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=installing_mods

My BAIN Package List - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=my_bain_package_list

Yeah, that's what it has to be. My problem is I just don't like the terminology. When I read "higher.." I automatically think of "higher on the list" or "physically higher on the page/screen" rather than what Wrye actually means... "lower on the list but of larger numeric value".

-Decrepit-

[Kat Lehmann]

Yeah, that's what it has to be. My problem is I just don't like the terminology. When I read "higher.." I automatically think of "higher on the list" or "physically higher on the page/screen" rather than what Wrye actually means... "lower on the list but of larger numeric value".

-Decrepit-

Yep it did that to me aswell. Just remember the installer closest to the ==Last== marker will have its files in the game.

installer-1.7z
installer-2.7z
==Last==

Files from installer-2.7z will be in the game overwriting installer-1.7z files.

It works the same with sub-packages of an individual complex installer too.

10 Mod Core files (includes esp & some textures)
20 Mod Optional Hi-res textures <<-- Will overwrite Mod core files textures if this sub-package is selected.


What will really mess with your head is the first time you multi-select all installers to install at once - They will be installed in reverse order and you watch thinking "OMG I cant stop it and I have the order upside down"...

It does this so there is one step less.....

Step 1: Installer-2.7z de-compressed and all files installed
Step 2: Installer-1.7z de-compressed and installed but skipping files which conflict with installer-2.7z (these skipped files are recorded as not-installed in case at a later date you un-install installer-2.7z)

If it did it in the order you think it should this would happen.....

Step 1: Installer-1.7z de-compressed and installed
Step 2: Installer-2.7z de-compressed and installed
Step 3: Installer-1.7z de-compressed and re-read to record files overwritten in step 2.

The process of installing multiple installers at once is quicker if done in reverse order.

[barbara belmonte]

What about a new option for the bashed patch?

Arrows weight capped:
0
0.1
0.2
[Custom]

[Monika Fiolek]

Sorry for noobish question, but how do you make it so that the version number of mod shows up in Wrye Bash? We're updating Shining Creatures and it would be useful to see which version the user has when submitting the load order.

EDIT: Nevermind, got it.

[Louise Andrew]

I have already asked this, but to be double sure :
I plan to reinstall oblivion (with BAIN) and I want to add Shivering Isles this time - mostly to play some great mods that require it. I'd like to make a "dual boot" install though, so I'd be able to test my plugins etc - using Wrye Bash which has an

Oblivion.esm > 1.1             > S.I.   ; grayed out in my case

menu item in its Mods tab.
How should I go about it ?
I thought I should do it like :
1. Install Ob
2. Patch Ob to 1.2.416
3a Copy Ob.esm to Ob-copy.esm
3. Rename Ob-copy.esm to ob_1.1.esm
4. Install SI
5. Patch SI to 1.2.416
This last step betrayed me though cause I am getting the :

---------------------------Patch Error---------------------------Old File not found. However, a file of the same name was               found. No update done since file contents do not match.---------------------------ΟΚ  ---------------------------

when the patch tries to patch the readme.txt
:confused:
If I delete the readme I get a file not found error - I need a version of the readme but I know not which - or don't I need the patch (as Tomlong suggested) ?
Thanks

PS : I got the above procedure straight from the WB readme - apart from the patches part which is not covered

[Red Sauce]

1. Install Ob
2. Patch Ob to 1.2.416
3a Copy Ob.esm to Ob-copy.esm
3. Rename Ob-copy.esm to ob_1.1.esm
4. Install SI
5. Patch SI to 1.2.416

The problem is you're using the wrong patch. If you read carefully in the readme, on step (2), you need to update Oblivion to version http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=76, which you can't get from the official site anymore.
Then continue as noted above.

EDIT: also, don't forget to rename ob_1.1.esm to Oblivion_1.1.esm

[carla]

If the ultimate goal of using the SI vs No-SI option is to see if you've imposed an SI requirement without realizing it, it makes more sense to me to patch non-SI Oblivion to 1.2.416, copy that ESM somewhere, then continue with the SI install and make sure it gets patched when you're done.

Very few if any people these days are stuck with version 1.1 of the game.

[Kitana Lucas]

The problem is you're using the wrong patch. If you read carefully in the readme, on step (2), you need to update Oblivion to version http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=76,

Not true! I'm using this feature of Wrye Bash with v1.2.0.416 of both the Vanilla and SI versions of Oblivion.esm and I don't have any problems.

The actual problem in Utumno's case is that you can't install Shivering Isles onto an Oblivion installation that has been patched to v1.2.0.416 because you won't then be able to properly patch the SI version to 1.2.0.416 (due to the fact that some of the files will think that they are already the latest version).

The solution to the problem is that you must uninstall Oblivion after getting a copy of the 1.2.0.416 vanilla ESM then reinstall Oblivion for the purpose of installing Shivering Isles then patching it. Finally, Lojack is correct that the Vanilla ESM must be named Oblivion_1.1.esm.

[Alan Cutler]

Hey thanks for the replies

The solution to the problem is that you must uninstall Oblivion after getting a copy of the 1.2.0.416 vanilla ESM then reinstall Oblivion for the purpose of installing Shivering Isles then patching it. Finally, Lojack is correct that the Vanilla ESM must be named Oblivion_1.1.esm.

So I backup my 1.2.0.416 esm (the patch only patches this ????) uninstall ob (== Oblivion) install SI, patch SI - and then copy the backup of Oblivion.esm back to \data as Oblivion_1.1.esm ?

[Nick Swan]

Not true! I'm using this feature of Wrye Bash with v1.2.0.416 of both the Vanilla and SI versions of Oblivion.esm and I don't have any problems.

The actual problem in Utumno's case is that you can't install Shivering Isles onto an Oblivion installation that has been patched to v1.2.0.416 because you won't then be able to properly patch the SI version to 1.2.0.416 (due to the fact that some of the files will think that they are already the latest version).

The solution to the problem is that you must uninstall Oblivion after getting a copy of the 1.2.0.416 vanilla ESM then reinstall Oblivion for the purpose of installing Shivering Isles then patching it. Finally, Lojack is correct that the Vanilla ESM must be named Oblivion_1.1.esm.

What in the world?! If you have already patched the game to version 1.2.0416 it is patched. Installing SI does not change what version the game is. The only reason SI and Oblivion have separate official patches is because the SI install changes some FormIDs. The SI records, themselves, are not patched. All you have to do is launch your game after installing SI to see. Patch the game whenever you want, before or after SI installed. It does not matter, makes no difference...

[Zoe Ratcliffe]

What in the world?! If you have already patched the game to version 1.2.0416 it is patched. Installing SI does not change what version the game is. The only reason SI and Oblivion have separate official patches is because the SI install changes some FormIDs. The SI records, themselves, are not patched. All you have to do is launch your game after installing SI to see. Patch the game whenever you want, before or after SI installed. It does not matter, makes no difference...

Yeah, right. After installing Oblivion, your version should be 1.0. Install (optionally, if you want) the Knights of the Nine expansion: this will update your version to 1.1.something... SI updates automatically Oblivion to 1.2.0416, the latest patch available.
So, after Oblivon is installed, install SI, your version is already 1.2.0416. But therefore, you need to install the patch that solves the problem of bad form ID, that causes objects to disappears in game after a certain amount of time. Check Bhethesda site for mor detailed instructions.

[Ashley Tamen]

Yeah, right. After installing Oblivion, your version should be 1.0. Install (optionally, if you want) the Knights of the Nine expansion: this will update your version to 1.1.something... SI updates automatically Oblivion to 1.2.0416, the latest patch available.
So, after Oblivon is installed, install SI, your version is already 1.2.0416. But therefore, you need to install the patch that solves the problem of bad form ID, that causes objects to disappears in game after a certain amount of time. Check Bhethesda site for mor detailed instructions.

You are describing the installation of the GOTY edition of the game. The second disc of GOTY includes the latest official patch. Is not the point of the latest official patch to fix the bad Form IDs problem? If someone has the link, I would like to see it. I have only used the retail version of the game I bought way back when...

[Laurenn Doylee]

You are describing the installation of the GOTY edition of the game. The second disc of GOTY includes the latest official patch. Is not the point of the latest official patch to fix the bad Form IDs problem? If someone has the link, I would like to see it. I have only used the retail version of the game I bought way back when...

No, I can assure you, it's not (only) the GOTY edition, all I said stays in the Bethesda site... Actually I don't use the GOTY edition, but I guess that, if the GOTY was released before the standard edition, it was already "patched". There's a simple way to verify its own Oblivion version.
Load the game. In the main screen (Play new game, Load game, atc...), there is a small "Oblivion" icon in the bottom left side of the screen. Hover your mouse over it. And you get...

[Bones47]

No, I can assure you, it's not (only) the GOTY edition, all I said stays in the Bethesda site... Actually I don't use the GOTY edition, but I guess that, if the GOTY was released before the standard edition, it was already "patched". There's a simple way to verify its own Oblivion version.
Load the game. In the main screen (Play new game, Load game, atc...), there is a small "Oblivion" icon in the bottom left side of the screen. Hover your mouse over it. And you get...

I don't know what this means... On a regular install (I do not know what the dual boot conversation is about) installing the official patch prior to or after SI's install makes no difference.