[JLG]

Well I can't speak for Tomlong - Besides she is good at that herself.

But my ever changing package list - I've posted occasionally to illustrate how install order is automated and of course showing an order to the installation. Where Tomlong is a better example is that her list is non-combined packages often in the original packaging.Roberts Body being a prime example of this.

As you may have guessed I often don't agree with original packaging and usually seek to improve upon them ... some might say an unhealthy obsession or some such non-sense.

Since I don't follow original packaging people might look at my list and say wth is that? because it says things like Stealth Compilation or Combat Compilation. I could install 100s of variations of mods and load orders at this point as my bash installers folder is about 50 gigs large - all cleaned, repackaged, ready to install.

[Stefanny Cardona]

Ah, but I thought Tomlong's list was mainly for suggesting placements, not an example of a player's normal list.

That said, it will work even if you activate them all, but it's pointless and I'd imagine she doesn't have them all active at once. Perhaps she just has a crazy amount of hard drive space and no need to ever delete anything.

My list is normal to me, but I am very particular about organization. I leave the packages separate as long as they come from different pages, and I have other criteria as well. That is really my actual mod list though, haha. It does not even include any music expansion mods. I still have another hundred or so mods packed in OMODs. I used to have a few hundred there, but I finally cleaned out the old Exnem mods I no longer use (although Luchaire's new body is making me reflect on that action quite a bit...)

As it stands, I have 60% of those packages active. Most of the inactive packages are alternatives to others, and there are a few mods I simply have yet to test. I do have everything except for my Data folder (and the My Games folder, of course) on a separate 250GB HDD, 75GB of which are all partitioned to Oblivion (the rest is empty.) I will expand that list just for the purpose of requests and troubleshooting this summer. I guess it will be leaving the realm of "normal" in the sense that you two hinted at... Right now, that is just me though.

My package list reflects installation order, in its entirety. I do not see a reason why it should not. Psymon's packaging method hides many of the specifics, but I think that many users will find that method preferable once they understand it. My list will remain as an example to other users, for package organization and installation order (and just my strict organization, for me.)

Also, although my packages are usually reflective of the mod's name (to the incorrect spelling) only with spaces substituted where necessary, the insides have often been modified. I do not want any "junk" installed. Even if there is one out of place folder or picture, I will BAIN-Ready the archive. I have to do the extreme organization thing too. Inconsistency just bugs the mess out of me. My naming schemes are nontrivial as well, but the subpackages are out of sight.

My Installers folder is under 20GB by the way, and I have less than 5GB stored in OMODs. My mod list does not change much anymore. My Mods: 45% visual & aesthetic enhancements (including cosmetic mods) 20% New Items 15% Game tweaks, Animations, Utilities 15% New Buildings and Quests 5% Overhauls and creatures and NPCs additions


Edit: I have Robertv4 for the included Ren's Mystic Elves textures. I also had compatibility issues with Robv5 and Robert's Female body at some point, but I have not seen evidence of that conflict again. You can see that the page IDs on the packages are different. I do not alter names much at all, and I do not have multiple versions of the same mod unless they actually differ, as Robv4 and v5 do. Some users even continue to use v3. The body shapes are different.

[James Rhead]

Got a question about special subrecords (figured I'd ask here first) : Are the XXXX and OFST the only ones known ? Can they appear in user-made plugins or are they confined to Oblivion.esm ? Finally, what data does the former hold and in which record is it found ? I wasn't able to find any mention of them in the UESP wiki.

[Penny Courture]

Where do those subrecords even show up?

[Beat freak]

Where do those subrecords even show up?

Well, OFST appears in the TES4 header. Dunno about XXXX.

EDIT: Ah! Found it. From the UESP wiki (was right under my nose too):

If the size of the subrecord data is too large to fit in a ushort, then this value is set to zero and the actual size is stored as the data [uint] of an immediately preceding subrecord of type 'XXXX'. This happens once in Oblivion.esm.

Has this been noticed in plugins created by the CS ?

PS : Another question. Are LAND records the only compressed ones or are other types compressed too ?

[Del Arte]

I seem to have messed up my bash patch with improper merging, could use a bit of help, can I post the info here, and what info is needed?

[Richard Dixon]

Well, OFST appears in the TES4 header. Dunno about XXXX.

OFST occurs in a couple places. Under the TES4 record, and under some of the world records. They appear to have different formats, but this isn't sure since the OFST sub-record is completely undecoded. Some of the world OFST sub-records are quite large.

Has this been noticed in plugins created by the CS ?

XXXX sub-records, yes. Fairly common.

OFST sub-records, no, not that I'm aware of. They may be leftover records from an earlier build of the CS, or they may be some sort of optimization record (offsets?) for loading Oblivion.esm.

PS : Another question. Are LAND records the only compressed ones or are other types compressed too ?

Notably, most of the NPC_ records are compressed. PGRD records are also normally compressed, though some aren't.

[Kelsey Hall]

Honestly I can′t seem to understand how real modders mod their game in practice. Take for example how you pros REALY install their mods. Wyre bash seems to be the way to go and even then you seem to have to install some mods that use OBSE with OBMM. How does that even work out if two programs that dictate the load order both supply a different list? You can hardly install mods with both programms right?

And then there's an other issue involving the practice of mod installing. Take for example the guide to install FCOM. It says to "Download and install OOO 1.33 in EXE or OMOD-ready format". If you install OOO this way it aint an archive and you can't load it into wrye bash since it doesnt support omods, and how can you even use wrye bash to configure FCOM later on then? There seems to be a very confusing discrepancy in what the programs do and in what the modders do. Hell a some mods don't even have a archive format download on some sites in favour of omod ready.

Also a more wrye bash specific problem: when you install OOO with OBMM it asks you if you want harvest flora, living economy etc etc. But when I dumped the archive of OOO in wrye bash it just activated without asking anything. How do I know what's installed now? Do I have to place the files manualy?


It would be reeeealy appreciated if someone can answer these questions, because I can't find some readme or site that can help me out here.

[Kara Payne]

I can't believe I actually double posted...

[jeremey wisor]

All your doing with these utilites is placeing the files in your Data directory, it dosent matter how they get there....

[Rachie Stout]

I'm having landscape seam issues with Bravil Barrowfields. I want to move its load order around in Bash, but... the save option is grayed out, and I cannot paste in new mod dates to alter the load order. Is there any reason why I'm not allowed to?

[Silvia Gil]

Honestly I can′t seem to understand how real modders mod their game in practice. Take for example how you pros REALY install their mods. Wyre bash seems to be the way to go and even then you seem to have to install some mods that use OBSE with OBMM. How does that even work out if two programs that dictate the load order both supply a different list? You can hardly install mods with both programms right?

Load order is all done with a single file, which both OBMM and Wrye Bash can edit. So changes to the load order made in WB will be reflected in OBMM, and vice-versa. You can install mods with both programs with no problems, and most people who use BAIN do just that because OBMM has some advantages (it installs Shader editing mods and has advanced scripting) while BAIN has other advantages (awareness of resources and conflicts in resources that OBMM does not have).

And then there's an other issue involving the practice of mod installing. Take for example the guide to install FCOM. It says to "Download and install OOO 1.33 in EXE or OMOD-ready format". If you install OOO this way it aint an archive and you can't load it into wrye bash since it doesnt support omods, and how can you even use wrye bash to configure FCOM later on then? There seems to be a very confusing discrepancy in what the programs do and in what the modders do. Hell a some mods don't even have a archive format download on some sites in favour of omod ready.

Installing OOO with the EXE installer is a convenience for some people. Wrye Bash will still have some awareness of the installed resources, but not as complete a control as if it was installed with a BAIN archive. Configuring FCOM has nothing to do with how it is installed. OMOD ready archives are distributed that way because OBMM provides a convenient way to convert those archives into OMOD archives, while maintaining the ability to install it manually. There is ZERO discrepancy if you read all the readmes fully.

Also a more wrye bash specific problem: when you install OOO with OBMM it asks you if you want harvest flora, living economy etc etc. But when I dumped the archive of OOO in wrye bash it just activated without asking anything. How do I know what's installed now? Do I have to place the files manualy? And in that case how the hell do I get those mods to work in wrye bash?

If you install OOO with OBMM you get a scripted install. That's the advantage of OBMM (though the installer is also scripted, technically). OOO is not currently distributed in a BAIN friendly format, so installing it with BAIN just by "dumping" it into BAIN is likely to cause problems, or at least not give you everything you want.

[james tait]

I'm having landscape seam issues with Bravil Barrowfields. I want to move its load order around in Bash, but... the save option is grayed out, and I cannot paste in new mod dates to alter the load order. Is there any reason why I'm not allowed to?

There are three ways to change the load order of a file. Drag and drop with v284, Use ctrl + up arrow or down arrow, or right click the file, choose the file sub-menu and then the "redate" option.

[Loane]

OOO is not currently distributed in a BAIN friendly format, so installing it with BAIN just by "dumping" it into BAIN is likely to cause problems, or at least not give you everything you want.

It will install all resources and the main esp/esm, readme etc., but skip the OOO-ADD-ONS folder. So it will basically do a full, normal install, but won't install "extras" as Living Economy, Harvest Flora and optional esp's.

[Jordan Fletcher]

XXXX sub-records, yes. Fairly common.

Hmm, looks like I'm going to have to look for those as well. But QUST and SCPT records (my interest lies therein) are rather unlikely to have subrecords of such huge sizes, yes ?

[kirsty williams]

Would it be possible to have BAIN indicate the install state in the Package List output generated by right-clicking?
038 - Landmarks, w Wells 1.10.zip (3C386A7E) <--- '-' Not installed
038 + Landmarks, w Wells 1.10.zip (3C386A7E) <--- '+' Installed

[Jani Eayon]

Would it be possible to have BAIN indicate the install state in the Package List output generated by right-clicking?
038 - Landmarks, w Wells 1.10.zip (3C386A7E) <--- '-' Not installed
038 + Landmarks, w Wells 1.10.zip (3C386A7E) <--- '+' Installed

That would be really nice. Good idea. The colors are good, but we are posting package lists like LOs now (not really, but I think the point is made. )

[CxvIII]

I'm getting an error when I select various mods in the mods-file list:

C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion\Mopy\basher.py:1608: UnicodeWarning: Unicode unequal comparison failed to convert both arguments to Unicode - interpreting them as being unequal (self.authorStr != self.author.GetValue()) or

Not 100% sure but I think I've solved this error for me. Every mod that launched this error is authored by tejón.
I replaced tejón with tejon in the author description, no more errors. So the accent ó is not liked, at least not in my configuration.

[laila hassan]

Hmm, looks like I'm going to have to look for those as well. But QUST and SCPT records (my interest lies therein) are rather unlikely to have subrecords of such huge sizes, yes ?

I wouldn't count on it. QUST records stand a higher chance than SCPT records of a XXXX sub-record due to the CTDA sub-records, and both QUST and SCPT records have the SCTX sub-record which holds the plain text scripting. Since OBSE removed the 32k limit on plain text, it is quite possible to hit the overall 65k limit that triggers the XXXX sub-record. Especially if the script happens to have a lot of commenting.

It isn't too hard to account for the XXXX sub-record, especially if you're only reading and not writing out the record. CBash does it like:

Spoiler

    unsigned int subType = 0;    unsigned int subSize = 0;    unsigned int curPos = 0;    SCPTVARS *newVARS = NULL;    ReqRecordField *newSCR_ = NULL;    while(curPos < recSize){        _readBuffer(&subType,buffer,4,curPos);        switch(subType)            {            case eXXXX:                curPos += 2;                _readBuffer(&subSize,buffer,4,curPos);                _readBuffer(&subType,buffer,4,curPos);                curPos += 2;                break;            default:                subSize = 0;                _readBuffer(&subSize,buffer,2,curPos);                break;            }        switch(subType)            {            case eEDID:                EDID.Read(buffer, subSize, curPos);                break;            case eSCHR:                SCHR.Read(buffer, subSize, curPos);                break;            case eSCDA:                SCDA.Read(buffer, subSize, curPos);                break;            case eSCTX:                SCTX.Read(buffer, subSize, curPos);                break;            case eSLSD:                newVARS = new SCPTVARS;                newVARS->SLSD.Read(buffer, subSize, curPos);                VARS.push_back(newVARS);                break;            case eSCVR:                if(newVARS == NULL)                    {                    newVARS = new SCPTVARS;                    VARS.push_back(newVARS);                    }                newVARS->SCVR.Read(buffer, subSize, curPos);                break;            case eSCRV:                newSCR_ = new ReqRecordField;                newSCR_->Read(buffer, subSize, curPos);                newSCR_->value.isSCRO = false;                SCR_.push_back(newSCR_);                break;            case eSCRO:                newSCR_ = new ReqRecordField;                newSCR_->Read(buffer, subSize, curPos);                newSCR_->value.isSCRO = true;                SCR_.push_back(newSCR_);                break;            default:                //printf("FileName = %s\n", FileName);                printf("  SCPT: Unknown subType = %04x\n", subType);                printf("  Size = %i\n", subSize);                printf("  CurPos = %04x\n\n", recStart + curPos - 6);                curPos = recSize;                break;            }        };

Depending on what you're doing (assuming it's for your CS project), it may be simpler to take CBash and strip it down to what you need than to code something new.

[Avril Churchill]

That would be really nice. Good idea. The colors are good, but we are posting package lists like LOs now (not really, but I think the point is made. )

Of course, you know the Package List output I'm referring to doesn't support colored boxes (text only). I suppose you could use ANSI color, but I don't think its necessary.

[Quick Draw III]

Of course, you know the Package List output I'm referring to doesn't support colored boxes (text only). I suppose you could use ANSI color, but I don't think its necessary.

Yeah, which is why I made the comment about posting LOs... We have the enhanced, full color version in the Mods tab, but the "List Mods" output is text. Thanks to the "+" and dots, we can still tell which plugins are merged, imported or whatever. I guess the point was not made then...

[Emmanuel Morales]

Does the importer for inventory not work on creatures? I've got several instances of TIE modifying creature inventories with nothing being brought into the bashed patch when other stuff after it modified the same creature and hasn't modified its inventory.

[Laura Ellaby]

Not 100% sure but I think I've solved this error for me. Every mod that launched this error is authored by tejón.
I replaced tejón with tejon in the author description, no more errors. So the accent ó is not liked, at least not in my configuration.

Oh I know what that error is... you are using the Unicode rather than ANSI version of wxPython... fairly harmless errors for the most part; install the ANSI version of wxPython if you don't want to have them or just live with them (or I'll probably at some point I might investigate making Bash work with the Unicode wxPython too)

Does the importer for inventory not work on creatures? I've got several instances of TIE modifying creature inventories with nothing being brought into the bashed patch when other stuff after it modified the same creature and hasn't modified its inventory.

it should work (always has for my tests... but I have a couple improvements I've found that I can do in Inventory importer recently... haven't had a chance to do them yet (exams) but I'll should get to in a few weeks I think).
Pacific Morrowind

[Sami Blackburn]

Yeah, it seems the inventory importer is being flaky. TIE loading before KOTN, and even though KOTN makes no changes to inventory, the additions TIE is trying to put in are being ignored entirely. Further down into the creature stuff I noticed other mods seem to be getting along just fine. KOTN is not tagged with anything so this shouldn't be happening.

[Hilm Music]

Yeah, it seems the inventory importer is being flaky. TIE loading before KOTN, and even though KOTN makes no changes to inventory, the additions TIE is trying to put in are being ignored entirely. Further down into the creature stuff I noticed other mods seem to be getting along just fine. KOTN is not tagged with anything so this shouldn't be happening.

Tag KOTN with factions and see if that help any has that is only change that KOTN is making to creatures is adding NDpredator to them and changing the stats a little bit..Tag TIE with actors.stats to get tie stats back. and actors. spells..