I'm sorry, I just had no idea where to pop this question since it involves the three major utilities...

FOE3edit's master update, from what the readme tells me...



This just means the ESM bit flag is set... even on .esp files...even after master update is done. Unfortunately the other utilities go a bit wacko upon seeing this .esm flag on .esps.

FOMM pops a "WARNING: This plugin has the file extension .esp, but its file header marks it as an esm!" message on the button .esp along with bolding every mod... because it uses the esm/esp bit to change bold settings.

Wyre Flash incorrectly displays the plugin colors that can be used for coloring... since it also uses that bit to change the .esm/.esp identity. The text color, text styles, and line styles are deactivated for an .esm file. These functions are useful for debugging/merging. When an .esm flag is set... it becomes weird.

Luckily, Wyre Flash has a ".espify" tool that can be used to change the flag... my question is... the changes made by FO3Edit are maintained correct? I believe so, but I question why FO3Edit didn't revert the flag back to .esp in the .esp files in the first place. This removes FOMM warning's and allows Wyre Flash's coloring to come back.

Secondly, does FOMM have a max size for the creation FoMODs? I can't seem to find any documentation... I'm talking about file sizes of 3 GB+.

Thirdly... some mods have weirdly loaded masters. For example... the Destruction mod's DLC plugins have currently have this form...

Fallout 3.esm
4 Fallout DLC.esm
Destruction.esm
Zeta.esm
...

It should actually be this.

Fallout 3.esm
5 Fallout DLC.esm
Destruction.esm
...

I'm not talking about the main load order, I'm talking about the load order of the masters (wyre flash displays them on the right panel). The suggested load order in destruction's readme is the second group above. I'm wondering if a mod benefits from having loaded masters like the first group... or if it can cause bugs. After running boss (which also uses destruction's readme load order), Wyre Flash displays mods in orange that have their masters loaded in incorrect orders... and that is assuming that you have .espify the files and got rid of the .ESM flag. If you did not run a ".espify" after a masterrestore... you probably would have never noticed this issue (this is an example of a consequence of the subject of question one). FO3Edit has a cool "sort masters" feature that sorts it according to your load order... (running the sort masters feature after BOSS is ideal). This fixes the issue... regardless of whether or not you "see" the problem with Wyre Flash's coloring.

So the question is... what the the benefits/consequences of master load orders that do not agree to mod load orders? Could a modder use this to do something on purpose?

If you manage to answer all three of these questions +5 to OCD for you! Thank you!

No if you flip the flag back with wrye flash then you should be undoing the MasterUpdate thing.

I don't know or care if FOMM has a max size as I'm the big proponent of using the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ - I imagine FOMM does not.

Third question - are you asking what is the benefit of MasterUpdate? I think that is what you mean. I http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1208223-merged-patch-or-bashed-patch/page__view__findpost__p__18060929 from another thread:

You want stability?
Learn to clean your mods and learn to find mod conflicts.

BAIN is great, and I wholeheartedly agree with you that BAIN is "better..." but there are new features that are in FOMM that are not in OBMM or any version of BAIN that make it very attractive. Specifically are the mod verification tools. It allows modders to create compilations WITHOUT packaging them and being able to confirm whether or not the end user has the correct number of archives. If a user does not have a specific archive, a download link can be given that directs the user to the right one. The end user ends up doing very little... no unpacking, no unraring, no manual verification to check if they have all the files and updates... this is all controlled by whoever made the compilation. Whoever made the compilation has a large amount of control. Anyway, I'm working on the metadata of this compilation (which controls the urls and file names) and I'm wondering if there is a max size and the meta-data has to be split up if FoMOD can't handle it... if no one answers... i'll just try to package all my FO3 BSAs and see what happens

There is no need to lecture me on the use of conflict cleaning... I obviously use the tools provided to me given the nature of these questions

No... I'm not asking about the "benefits" of master update... I'm talking about the global load order versus the master load order...
http://i.picasion.com/pic42/28dd7b0d0ae7b20b0f97b9f94dba366d.gif
The animation above is what I mean. This describes a popular mod... Destruction's DLC plugin. Are there consequences/benefits to having a mismatched master/global load order? Did the modder accidentally make a guff or is this on purpose? Reading the Tome of FO3EDIT and TES4EDIT, I get a similar.. vague answer...



Strangely... on working on my compilation... MANY MODs have weird master load orders that either do not make sense and/or don't agree with BOSS. While I'm not experiencing any big errors after sorting masters... I'm curious if there is a rhyme/reason for mismatched load orders.

To clarify, if I'm "undoing the masteupdate" thing... I know I'm not changing this function of the update masters...


But I'm unsure about this....


Obviously, I'm changing the ESM flag... but what the hell are ONAM subrecords? Miax's tome does not cover this acronym and uses it extensively. If these are built then they also don't change when I "espify" the mods. Unless the "benefit" of the masterupdate is turning it into a master itself... I'm unsure. I come from Oblivion... so please forgive me if ONAM subrecords are something that most people should know about

But yes, I do agree with you on your linked thread, looking at differences in the merged patch and the bashed patch on FO3Edit, I thoroughly recommend the bashed patch instead... and there isn't really even a learning curve to it @_@

I can pop in here with this one: No, I don't believe there is a max size. I've created fomods of packages 1.5gb in size flawlessly and relatively quickly considering the amount of data that is.

Thanks ghouls! I tested it after you confirmed and I was able to successfully make a 7 GB FOMOD... and sucessfully install it

Now... testing @_@

Wow ok - you are a quick study.

Fair enough - I was not trying to lecture - just spread knowledge if you didn't know.

As for trusting the packagers of mods - I find that a risky thing to do and have found that many many mods are not necessarily clean and tidy (the data files) just because they are in an OMOD or FOMOD

As for ONAM records I recall Valda talking about them - I'd ask in http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1102449-relz-garybash-thread-2/ where he is likely to see your question.

I've been told by Valda and Elminster that masters out of order (which you never see in Oblivion) is not that big a deal and that it does not matter. Resulting from saving a mod with masters in a different order. I've seen FWE plugins over its 5 series of updates have shifting masters.

I'm not an advocate of MasterUpdate - so not likely to dive into wanting to know how to make it work better-er.