Yes. All hope is not lost. In the meantime glad to hear the informal version has been of some help to some people.

I'm adding in a to-do list cribbed from a thread about reinstalling MW, Tribunal, BM and mods afresh based on http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=382512 containing advice from manooly and other mod users and makers, along with some heavy edits from bjam plus a few small edits of my own. When WryeMash is needed, it appears in BOLD:


1 - Unistall the existing game/MODs

2- Reinstall Morrowind, Tribunal and Bloodmoon

3 - Install Better Bodies / Better Heads

4 - Install face replacers (changingfacesnpcreplacerupdate.7z, and add-on)

5- Install all of texture replacers MODs (Ultimate Textures-Complete, flask replacers, silverware replacer, weapons,armor replacers, clothing/robe replacers, illuminated windows, book jackets, etc.)

6 - Install clothing replacers (better clothes, Ultimate_Textures_-_Clothing.7z)

7 - Install the larger MODs (Morrowind Comes Alive, Sound enhancers)

8 - Install Official plugins

9 - Install new quests - (White Wolf, AndromacheInstaller.zip, etc)

10 - Install extras (barabusfireplaces2.zip, bobs_armory.rar, carnithusarmamentariumcomplete.zip, horseranch31full.rar, marksmanmodversion1_45.rar, etc.)

11 - Install playable faces

12 - Check for conflict between mods with TESPCD

13 - a - Lauch Wrye Mash and synchronize the mod with the master files

b - or update header with Tes Tool

14 - use TESTool, TESAME, or the Enchanted Editor to clean mods of GMSTs and dirty references; a link to the list of mods that perhaps should not be cleaned with TesTool appears at the beginning of this thread (read to end of thread and/or take with grain of salt)

15 - if this has not yet been done, check mods to be played via TesTool, Wrye Mash , TESTool, [MWDatafiles screen, or TESCS?]

16 - arrange load order using "reorderPlugins.zip", reOrder Mods [ck name??? I have a mental block here!], TESTool, or Wrye Mash

17 - a - Run TESTool to merge levelled lists and objects (not dialogue, as it, unfortunately, usually breaks more things than it repairs), or

b - Run TESTool to merge objects and then merge your Leveled lists with Wrye Mash

18 - Lauch Wrye Mash and (if not already done in step 16 or 17) Lock Times -> It will be very useful if you decide to add / remove some mods later in your game;

19 - Run Morrowind FPS Optimizer.v1.96.zip in background

20 - Start new game.

This could probably use some more tweaking, but perhaps it will be more helpful than the outline in the second post for some users.

I have one question that I am unclear on despite documentation and this thread (ok, so I'm a blockhead, duh ). Once you've used Wrye Mash to clean up & fix stuff, must Morrowind be started ("launched", "run" whatever) only from the button in Wrye Mash or can the regular Morrowind launcher be used?

Hello,

I've got some work that I need to finish too.

You can launch Morrowind with any launcher you want. However, if you use Morrowind Launcher to start Morrowind ('Play' button), you must avoid to click on 'Data Files' (just under 'Play') to change your mods list.

Bjam

Bump - shame to let this fall back this far, really...

I hope this get finished as it has been much needed.

Thanks, Faylynn. It will get done (it's just in line behind several other MW and real-life projects) in some hopefully more-or-less useful form (almost accidentally typed "useless" :rolleyes:) . . . meanwhile perhaps it should get a little nudge in case it's useful to anyone. :shrug:

Greatest topic of the day. Yeah forums.

Back up then, so's it does not get more lost meanwhile . . .


I liked the notion "more-or-less useless form" :rofl:

Well, it will be particularly more-or-less useless, given Wrye's update to 0.65 . . . I've just started using that and am still trying to figure out the extent of the changes from 0.60. :unsure:

But the general idea should be the same . . . er, to explain how to set load order, clean mods, and how this fits into the mod install and mod maintenance process. In 50,000 words or fewer. :nod: :goodjob:

Bumping for sheer usefulness. Live with it.

A bump for a great topic
and a :poke: for Larissa Mem

But Yacoby, your load order tutorial is so clear!

I was thinking about this today while cleaning mods . . . I don't think I ever got an answer. I understood that it wasn't wise to resave over a dirty save. Is this true while using Mash? Wrye was insistent that one only needed to keep blue the saves one was going to play. But Nerra for example has 10 save slots and circulates through them. In that case would one want all the saves to be clean when one started off any given session of playing?

(Just asking so I can make a clear rule. I don't think a simple tut would get into forked saves . . . especially since people seem to attach another meaning to the word "forked.")

Yes, just good hygiene.

First, distinguish between 'a dirty save' and 'a previously used save (slot)' - saving over a dirty save sounds to me like asking for trouble whatever you are using. Making a fresh save in a fresh slot has simply been found to lead to better results.
Will Wrye mash do it all, obviating the need to make fresh saves in fresh slots? Maybe, some folk think so perhaps. To me it seems better to combine the potential benefits of two good approaches known to work than merely relying on one. Insurance. Prudence. Apple pie.


Thinking of it maybe as all guidance or 'best practises' works a little better than rules, which folk tend to think of as absolute and 'true' and want to argue about whereas most of this stuff is not 'true', just a better way or easier way or known or proven or safer way of using the tools.


N.B. And you are absolutely correct about Yacoby's Load Order Tutorial; one of the very best mod user help tools going ---> http://yacoby.silgrad.com/MW/Tuts/LoadOrder/LoadOrderTut.htm!

Personally, I would be very surprised if saving over a dirty save caused any problems. The only way it would cause a problem would be if the save process somehow updated the existing save rather than just overwriting it -- which seems extremely unlikely.

Yep and I would prefer to err on the side of prudence on this one, a surprise best simply avoided.

Hello,



Thank everyone who contributed to this thread. I'm learning to to use Wrye and have some of the basics down, which is a far cry from (with nothing selected) pushing "just fix it" in Testool a few years ago. I"m trying to clean my mods in testool (but doing merged lists in wrye) and I don't see how to select mods to "clean". I'm using some mods that shouldn't be cleaned this way (including emma's companion mods). How do I do this? Since I'm using wrye is there some other utility for the esp checking that I'm looking for?



thanks

No, you don't need to do anything in Wrye Mash (which, by the way, was http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=249084). All the functions you are looking for are available in TESTools itself.

1. When you open TESTool, there is a list of 7 functions. Choose Clean ESP/ESM files (save results in "Clean" folder). This will clean the mods and put cleaned versions of them into a folder in Data Files marked "Clean," leaving the original mods in your Data Files.

2. Next, click on "Options." Choose "Restricted Cell cleaning" and "Restricted Dialog Cleaning." Read the readme to understand what "Force save for clean plugins"; "Retain file time, when cleaning" and "Don't change plugin names" mean. If you are putting them in a clean folder, whether you check these or not is not particularly important, since Wrye Mash allows you to change names and dates. Press "Done" (er, after you're done.)

3. Then press execute. You will see a list of all your plugin names. HOLDING DOWN THE CONTROL KEY, CLICK THE MODS YOU WANT TO CLEAN WITH YOUR LEFT MOUSE KEY. When you are finished choosing all the mods you want to clean, press Enter or click on "Open."

4. TESTools will clean all the mods and will generate a report saying what changes it made. Review the changes and toss out any changed mods you don't want to keep. For cleaned mods you want to retain, remove the originals in Data Files and replace with the version from the Clean folder.

5. Reopen Mash to tweak your load order and ensure all the mods you want to work with are checked. As I recall, if you have "Lock Times" turned on in Mash, Mash will usually put a cleaned mod back where/when it was before in the load order. Rename as necessary/desired.

Oh, this probibly is silly but I thought testool would just preform whatever option I selected for all of my mods. Do you have programing knowledge or just alot of modding + observation? Wish I'd put my time into learning this stuff earlier.

Too valuable to allow to languish where ever it's fallen to.

I "T" totally agree. Thanks DD for directing my post over here. My worried that nothing has been done on this for so long.

I would like to mention that it seems that some were getting a little "warm" about this subject.

It seems that there are two side to this, well maybe three. One is the originator of Wrye Mash, two are those trying to create an understanding of the program itself for three, those of us less computer/programy literate types. It seems that everyone is trying to do their best in reaching this goal by forming a Pyramid coming from the top down, with the bottom layers which represent the majority of those forum members who like me, know very little about the difference between a mod vs a plugin. Ha! Ha! (My attempt at humor here)

Someone correct this if it seems off the mark.

I would like to relay something from my past, in the hope that it might help "everyone" to understand each other and the real issue of why there is so much unclarity on this marvelouse program.

I'm going to speak openly. Perhaps, if I had done this when my dad was alive my whole life would have turned out differently. First, my dad was a Master Mason/Builder. At the time I didn't know there was a difference between that and a carpenter. My point is that he was very intelligent, especially with math. Not just any math; but, the type of math that goes into designing, building, and creating structures. Everypart of it.

My story (I'm actually coming to it and my point), is that when I was younger he was trying to help me with my math. (grade school) What was very clear to him, I could not get. The stuff on the page just muddled together until all I could see were a jumble of letters and numbers. I really wanted to see them and couldn't and he really wanted to explain them to me and couldn't. Neither one of us were getting anywhere, and so we both gave up.

I think that this is what's happening here. (not the giving up part) But, to some, this program is so clear that it's hard to understand why others can't see it too. Obviously, too many see a big jumble or there wouldn't be so many continuing posts on the subject. I have been able to figure out some of this program so it isn't too far off the mark. Just needs a little help now and then. I see the potential and can almost grasp what it's trying to tell me; but, then I lose it.

Perhaps if there were more pictures explaining the steps? Would this help do you think? For instance I get bogged down on the intermediary parts. Like, it says to do this; but, it doesn't say what happens when you do. For an iliterate this is scary.

I will quote from the program as an example:
"Mods List

? Sorting

? Sort Mod list items by (left) clicking on a column header, or by using the sort submenu of the column popup menu."
(Fairly simple instructions; but, the popup submenu isn't-how does clicking on any of these sort the mod list? which one do I click & What happens when I do..? will I be able to undo?)

? Reverse a sort by redoing it. E.g., left click on the File column header twice in a row.
(Yeah! But, I'm still trying to sort my mod list-and I'm only on one mod?)

? "Load Order" is the exception ? it will always appear in correct order.
(not if I screw it up-and I haven't been able to sort my mod list yet)

? Force ESMS to the top of the list by selecting "Sort by Type" from the context menu.
(Sorry I couldn't find a "sort by type" are we still in the submenu?)

? Force selected mods to the top of the list by selecting "Sort by Selection" from the context menu.
(Where's the context menu where'd it come from-is it different than column popup menu and where's the "sort by selection" to click on?)

Now granted this was a little redundent; however, I was using this as an example on how easy it is to be confused with this program. For someone that is familar with such things it may be very clear.

Personally, I could understand a left click-hold-and-drag easier as a method of mod sorting; because, it's more visual, and it forms a picture in my head. I am not saying that it's the best method, just easier to understand.

I don't know if this has helped or made enemies for me; but, after my youth experience I decided to have a say anyway. Sometimes keeping silent is not the best solution. Maybe someone can add to this, and then again, maybe I'm playing volleyball when everyone else is at the ball park?

I really wish someone would put this up on a webpage somewhere before it's lost.

Oh, I don't see it getting lost, DarkDiva. :nope:

Just back here myself to recheck how to do something.
Hmmm . . . that's probably good sign that one needs to play more. :hehe:

I just started using Mash so bear with me. I have gone through the tutorial to clean my save. All my mods are green but my save is pink. I went through processed outlined here (Sync to load and then repair all) but my save is still pink. When I repeat the process it says there is nothing to repair but my save does not become blue.

Am I missing something here?

EDIT: Never mind they are blue now.

For saved games, (P)ink = Perfect;
For masters list (on the right) of a Pink selected savegame, (B)lue = Beautiful
:hehe:

Its good to know about pink/purple. I was beginning to think none of my cleaning was working.

Here a another question:

I clean my save with wyre mash and my save is purple (pink) and masters are blue (perfect). Then when I go and load the game and play it (without adding or subtracting any mods) for while I come back and look in wyre mash. My save has become green and I have green masters in my middle of my blue ones.

am I skipping a step here?