Wtf is with Energy Weapons? : Fallout: New Vegas

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:12 pm

Really? How so? DPS is only marginally better, and that's considering all three lasers hit. I could kill an enemy with a Brush Gun (with cowboy perk) before I even get close enough for the Tri-Beam.

Tri-beam laser rifle:                              Brush gun:Base damage: 22*3 = 66 damage                      Base damage: 75 damage+ Laser Commander:  25.3*3 = 75.9 damage           + Cowboy: 93.75 damageRate of fire: 2.73                                 Rate of fire: 1.85Basic DPS: 207                                     Basic DPS: 173Crit chance w/ 10 luck = 10%                       Crit chance w/ 10 luck = 10%+ Finesse: 15%                                     + Finesse: 15%+ Laser Commander: 25%+ Set Lasers to Fun(2):  29%Crit multiplier: x1.5                              Crit multiplier: x1.0Total chance of critical hit: 43.5%                Total chance of critical hit: 15%Crit damage: 22 to 66 (we'll use 44)               Crit damage: 75Crit chance * crit damage * RoF: 52                Crit chance * crit damage * RoF: 21Average DPS with crits: 259                        Average DPS with crits: 194

"Better Criticals", 1st Recon beret, Light Touch, all increase the gap further. (Don't forget that crits ignore armor, too)

Consider the fact that the tri-beam laser reloads 8 shots as as one action, while the brush gun requires you to load each round individually. If reloading is involved, tri-beam will quickly pull ahead.

For grins and giggles, use Max Charge ammo in your tri-beam laser rifle: damage +50%, target DT-10. .45-70 Semi-wadcutters? +20% damage and DT-6.

Brush gun can hit them further away, but as far as raw in-your-face damage.... Tri-beam. They serve different purposes.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:39 am

Okay!!.. You're right, I never noticed the Recharger Rifle Damage... explains why Primm was impossible... *cough*. However, the energy weapon damage still svcked with Laser Pistols and whatnot. BUT. I downloaded the Energy Guns Denerfed mod, so hopefully that does make them less usless with the DT bypass on ammo and such.

This being said. I still hate Energy Weapons (for the most part) due to some of them, for me, being impossible to look at in first person mode (Takes up like a 4th of my screen), but Energy Rifles and the like are seeeeexy. So i'v decided to stockpile on ammo and slowly, but surely, level my Energy Weapons up and maybe after 10ish levels I can go ahead and enjoy them a bit more. (Seems to be ALOT more ammo for them laying around in NV compared to FO3 early on. But it STILL runs out really fast lol.)

anyways, thanks for the feedback guys. Hoping this next playthrough will go smoother for me

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:50 pm

Use the Gauss Rifle anyway. Definitely the most powerful sniper weapon in the game.

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:44 pm

Use the Gauss Rifle anyway. Definitely the most powerful sniper weapon in the game.

Holorifle?

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:59 pm

Holorifle?

YCS still does better with decent agility/reload speed.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:34 am

YCS still does better with decent agility/reload speed.

Nah, YCS is still too slow, with a decent agility then Holorifle comes out on top.
Only negative thing with Holorifle is that the projectile travels slower so one must time it pretty well.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:47 am

Tri-beam laser rifle:                              Brush gun:Base damage: 22*3 = 66 damage                      Base damage: 75 damage+ Laser Commander:  25.3*3 = 75.9 damage           + Cowboy: 93.75 damageRate of fire: 2.73                                 Rate of fire: 1.85Basic DPS: 207                                     Basic DPS: 173Crit chance w/ 10 luck = 10%                       Crit chance w/ 10 luck = 10%+ Finesse: 15%                                     + Finesse: 15%+ Laser Commander: 25%+ Set Lasers to Fun(2):  29%Crit multiplier: x1.5                              Crit multiplier: x1.0Total chance of critical hit: 43.5%                Total chance of critical hit: 15%Crit damage: 22 to 66 (we'll use 44)               Crit damage: 75Crit chance * crit damage * RoF: 52                Crit chance * crit damage * RoF: 21Average DPS with crits: 259                        Average DPS with crits: 194

"Better Criticals", 1st Recon beret, Light Touch, all increase the gap further. (Don't forget that crits ignore armor, too)

Consider the fact that the tri-beam laser reloads 8 shots as as one action, while the brush gun requires you to load each round individually. If reloading is involved, tri-beam will quickly pull ahead.

For grins and giggles, use Max Charge ammo in your tri-beam laser rifle: damage +50%, target DT-10. .45-70 Semi-wadcutters? +20% damage and DT-6.

Brush gun can hit them further away, but as far as raw in-your-face damage.... Tri-beam. They serve different purposes.

I see, thanks for going out of your way to provide actual stats. The range of the Brush Gun is the deciding factor for me, though (I also didn't take the Laser Commander perk because pre-patch laser weapons were horrible and I didn't make a character post-patch).

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:38 am

Holorifle. Get Dead Money.

This.

Holorifle is my new favorite weapon. The YCS is cool and so is the Tesla Prototype. But the holorifle kills, things, DEAD.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:46 am

Okay!!.. You're right, I never noticed the Recharger Rifle Damage... explains why Primm was impossible... *cough*. However, the energy weapon damage still svcked with Laser Pistols and whatnot. BUT. I downloaded the Energy Guns Denerfed mod, so hopefully that does make them less usless with the DT bypass on ammo and such.

This being said. I still hate Energy Weapons (for the most part) due to some of them, for me, being impossible to look at in first person mode (Takes up like a 4th of my screen), but Energy Rifles and the like are seeeeexy. So i'v decided to stockpile on ammo and slowly, but surely, level my Energy Weapons up and maybe after 10ish levels I can go ahead and enjoy them a bit more. (Seems to be ALOT more ammo for them laying around in NV compared to FO3 early on. But it STILL runs out really fast lol.)

anyways, thanks for the feedback guys. Hoping this next playthrough will go smoother for me

Yea a lot of the early energy weapons blow. They get better. The Laser RCW is pretty cool early on, and I kinda like the Plasma Pistol, but the Plasma Rifle, is just too slow. The Laser Tri-Beam is weak.

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:27 pm

Laser RCW is the most kickass SMG in game. Minigun suffers like Gatling Laser as well. As for Tesla Cannon, I would agree it can have charge use cut down in half.

Brush Gun is the most powerful weapon in Guns?

Even the broader line "bad" unique La Longue Carabine have some edge which the normal variant doesn't. There is only few uniques that doesn't out right better than normal version with full upgrade.

I have yet to put down the Laser RCW after I pick it up the first time.

Not true at all, Police pistol, Automatic Rifle, Bear Trap Fist, Cosmic Knife Spear are all very good weapons.

Because there is still incendiary grenade; or more like an oversight as they transfer the perks form FO3.

Not true, 9mm pistol would struggle against anything but Powder Gangers; only the top tier 5.56mm can match a basic Laser Rifle (post patch);Gun have no AoE weapons and only AMR have some sort of DoT et cetera.

The difference being you can find 5.56 somewhat easier than the Laser Rifle. Still, the Laser Rifle is a charm to keep around. Max Charge makes up for a lot of shortcomings in higher levels, and even then it's still decent.

I found the La Longue Carabine to be actually worse than the Cowboy Repeater.

I keep putting down the Laser RCW, for some reason it doesn't sing to me when I kill enemies, so I put it down in favor of something that feels better to carry around.

Brush Gun isn't the most powerful (standard) in the guns category. It potentially is just the most damaging. I recall the Brush Gun having a glitch in it's Critical damage that does more than it is allotted or stated.

The difference being the AoE associated with EN Weapons and not grenades, is not good. I'm excluding Meltdown perk from this list, because then it would turn just about everything into an explosion.

I still find the BAR, Police Pistol, and Knife Spear (didn't care for it) to be only enough to mosey on through Dead Money. Afterword I threw most of the gear away with the exception of the Holorifle, some knives, a BAR, Assassin Suit, and Gold Bars. However, for the sake of the topic let's not discuss this part further.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:03 am

Tri-beam laser rifle:                              Brush gun:Base damage: 22*3 = 66 damage                      Base damage: 75 damage+ Laser Commander:  25.3*3 = 75.9 damage           + Cowboy: 93.75 damageRate of fire: 2.73                                 Rate of fire: 1.85Basic DPS: 207                                     Basic DPS: 173Crit chance w/ 10 luck = 10%                       Crit chance w/ 10 luck = 10%+ Finesse: 15%                                     + Finesse: 15%+ Laser Commander: 25%+ Set Lasers to Fun(2):  29%Crit multiplier: x1.5                              Crit multiplier: x1.0Total chance of critical hit: 43.5%                Total chance of critical hit: 15%Crit damage: 22 to 66 (we'll use 44)               Crit damage: 75Crit chance * crit damage * RoF: 52                Crit chance * crit damage * RoF: 21Average DPS with crits: 259                        Average DPS with crits: 194

"Better Criticals", 1st Recon beret, Light Touch, all increase the gap further. (Don't forget that crits ignore armor, too)

Consider the fact that the tri-beam laser reloads 8 shots as as one action, while the brush gun requires you to load each round individually. If reloading is involved, tri-beam will quickly pull ahead.

For grins and giggles, use Max Charge ammo in your tri-beam laser rifle: damage +50%, target DT-10. .45-70 Semi-wadcutters? +20% damage and DT-6.

Brush gun can hit them further away, but as far as raw in-your-face damage.... Tri-beam. They serve different purposes.

With Built to Destroy I have a 48% chance to critically hit with the Tri-Beam.

So roughly 5/10 shots are critical hits.

I have Commando, Sniper, Concentrated Fire and Center of Mass and I get get really good range with it. About as far as my Brush Gun character with the 'Fast Shot' trait. With Concentrated Fire the last percentage you build up to is what counts. So if you go from 50%-75% all of your shots will have a 75% chance to hit the target. Concentrated Fire works best if you have a lot of AP. I have 125.

If you add the damage from Max Charge Microfusion cells, Bloody Mess, Lord Death (3), and Better Criticals your maximum single shot damage (with criticals from all 3 lasers) is 220.8.

The Brush Gun's maximum (with all related perks and 45-70 Gov SWC Hand Load) is 232.26 but you only have a critical chance of 18%. So 2/10 shots are critical hits but when they do hit they are devestating every time.

So yea, the Tri-Beam is superior by a small margin.

Numbers provided by http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Tri-beam_laser_rifle_%28Fallout:_New_Vegas%29

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:31 pm

I insta-kill Deathclaws with my Laser Rifle and Plasma Rifle so I can't complain

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:50 am

I personally love energy weapons. Sure, early on they kind of svck and ammo and good weapons are hard to come by but once you get to say repconn it's great. Rifles and ammo galore. Once you up your skill it also helps. and of course perks do aswell.

Only problem with my energy weapons character is that the Van Graffs door bugged out and the only way I could get in was to kill the guard wich ended terribly.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:40 am

The difference being you can find 5.56 somewhat easier than the Laser Rifle. Still, the Laser Rifle is a charm to keep around. Max Charge makes up for a lot of shortcomings in higher levels, and even then it's still decent.

One of EW's trait is being rarer than Guns, I don't find this a problem, especially the 5.56

I found the La Longue Carabine to be actually worse than the Cowboy Repeater.

I think so too, but if we view them more objectively LLC does have a few advantage over a normal CBR.

I keep putting down the Laser RCW, for some reason it doesn't sing to me when I kill enemies, so I put it down in favor of something that feels better to carry around.

Everybody have their preference, but at least Laser RCW is very good in terms of raw stats.

Brush Gun isn't the most powerful (standard) in the guns category. It potentially is just the most damaging. I recall the Brush Gun having a glitch in it's Critical damage that does more than it is allotted or stated.

I don't think there is any glitch on lever-actions aside from reloading animation. Brush Gun is the most powerful Gun in the balance between overcoming DT, DPS, accuracy and ammo selection. In fact it is so powerful its HP round leds until DT 12 vs the JFP and DT 16 vs regular.

The difference being the AoE associated with EN Weapons and not grenades, is not good. I'm excluding Meltdown perk from this list, because then it would turn just about everything into an explosion.

Minor mistake is how I take it.

I still find the BAR, Police Pistol, and Knife Spear (didn't care for it) to be only enough to mosey on through Dead Money. Afterword I threw most of the gear away with the exception of the Holorifle, some knives, a BAR, Assassin Suit, and Gold Bars. However, for the sake of the topic let's not discuss this part further.

Well, then there is still Beartrap Fist :foodndrink:

Not trying to dwell on it, but I do have some counterpoints:
BAR definitely is on the short end of stick thanks to game mechanics, but it is still ridiculous in terms of DPS.
Police Pistol is excellent because of speed loader, while still dwarf by .44 and .45-70, definitely good "on draw" weapon to deal with minor encounter while running around.
Knife Spear is more about variety and cosmetic.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:37 am

I insta-kill Deathclaws with my Laser Rifle and Plasma Rifle so I can't complain

This would definitely not work for higher difficulties, at least not with the Laser Rifle.

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:03 pm

I'm not sure about the exact order that the modifiers are taken into consideration, but....

Laser rifle: Base damage 22
Focus optics: +3 damage = 25
Laser Commander: +15% = 28.75
Lord Death(3): +4% = 29.9
Better Criticals: crit 22 * 1.5 = 33
Sneak attack: (29.93+33) * 2 = 125.8
Head shot: *2 = 251.6
Max Charge: *1.5 = 377.4

...is one way to look at it. Obviously the deathclaw gets a DT reduction somewhere in there, but it's safe to say that if you can't outright kill a deathclaw in one shot, you can at least take a big chunk out of one if you do it right. I'll have to try this some time.

(Moral of the story: sneak attacks are hilariously overpowered)

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:14 am

I'm not sure about the exact order that the modifiers are taken into consideration, but....

Laser rifle: Base damage 22
Focus optics: +3 damage = 25
Laser Commander: +15% = 28.75
Lord Death(3): +4% = 29.9
Better Criticals: crit 22 * 1.5 = 33
Sneak attack: (29.93+33) * 2 = 125.8
Head shot: *2 = 251.6
Max Charge: *1.5 = 377.4

...is one way to look at it. Obviously the deathclaw gets a DT reduction somewhere in there, but it's safe to say that if you can't outright kill a deathclaw in one shot, you can at least take a big chunk out of one if you do it right. I'll have to try this some time.

(Moral of the story: sneak attacks are hilariously overpowered)

It hurts more when you dont know it's coming.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:51 am

Energy weapons I'd recommend:

Tri-Beam Laser Rifle (If you have the wild wasteland perk, go southeast of Brooks Tumbleweed Ranch. There will be a few, er, special NPCs there (don't want to spoil it for anyone) with a few of these and another extremely powerful energy weapon. It can also be found on a few BoS members in Hidden Valley.)
Multiplas Rifle (These are rare, and I think they're pretty powerful. I found my first in the Silver Rush on the counter.)
Plasma Defender (Also found at the Silver Rush.)

Get rid of that recharger rifle ASAP. I used it once around level 5-7 and haven't touched it since.

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:31 pm

I don't think those calculations are correct. Max Charge is applied to base damage, for one thing. With all the damage multipliers, it'll do roughly 45 dmg. Plus a sneak attack critical, that comes to 156. With a headshot, I guess the damage is doubled, like you say, but I'm not sure. So, 312 max damage, which is still massive, but there's too much effort required.

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:14 pm

Energy weapons I'd recommend:

Tri-Beam Laser Rifle (If you have the wild wasteland perk, go southeast of Brooks Tumbleweed Ranch. There will be a few, er, special NPCs there (don't want to spoil it for anyone) with a few of these and another extremely powerful energy weapon. It can also be found on a few BoS members in Hidden Valley.)
Multiplas Rifle (These are rare, and I think they're pretty powerful. I found my first in the Silver Rush on the counter.)
Plasma Defender (Also found at the Silver Rush.)

Get rid of that recharger rifle ASAP. I used it once around level 5-7 and haven't touched it since.

You can also find a Tri-Beam Laser and Multiplas Rifle in the Followers Safehouse.

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:58 pm

I don't think those calculations are correct. Max Charge is applied to base damage, for one thing. With all the damage multipliers, it'll do roughly 45 dmg. Plus a sneak attack critical, that comes to 156. With a headshot, I guess the damage is doubled, like you say, but I'm not sure. So, 312 max damage, which is still massive, but there's too much effort required.

Ammo modifiers are applied to damage that makes it through DT. So if you had none of those things, the laser rifle using max charge would would do basic 22 damage; deathclaw has DT 15, minus 10 from MC ammo, effective DT 5; damage 22 - 5 = 17; *1.5 from MC = 25.5.

This is highly reliant on what order the different modifiers stack in. If anybody has a maxed-out EW build, find out what the result is with some field testing.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:42 am

Ammo modifiers are applied to damage that makes it through DT. So if you had none of those things, the laser rifle using max charge would would do basic 22 damage; deathclaw has DT 15, minus 10 from MC ammo, effective DT 5; damage 22 - 5 = 17; *1.5 from MC = 25.5.

This is highly reliant on what order the different modifiers stack in. If anybody has a maxed-out EW build, find out what the result is with some field testing.

I'll mod one up for you. How do you want the build, just like you listed up above?

-Gunny out.

» Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:25 pm

I'll mod one up for you. How do you want the build, just like you listed up above?

-Gunny out.

If you're otherwise unoccupied, your mission is to kill a deathclaw with one shot with a laser rifle.

My suggestion is to add every conceivable bonus possible to your character. And if it turns out to actually be possible, secondary objective is to work backward by dumping the smallest/most obscure bonuses until they stop dying in one shot.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:04 am

If you're otherwise unoccupied, your mission is to kill a deathclaw with one shot with a laser rifle.

My suggestion is to add every conceivable bonus possible to your character. And if it turns out to actually be possible, secondary objective is to work backward by dumping the smallest/most obscure bonuses until they stop dying in one shot.

I just shot a (actually, many, so that my results were SCIENTIFICALLY! vaild) deathchicken with the set up you had listed above: laser rifle, focus optics, laser commander, lord dearh (3), better crits, max charge, with 100 energy weaps, sneak headshot (in vats) on a 500 HP DC at the Junction. He had 119 HP left afterwards. Straight up vanilla game (current patch), no mods, no tweaks.

I'll see if adding bloody mess will help, and then maybe take some chems.

BRB - Gunny out.

» Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:40 am

Don't forget that Psycho and Slasher can stack!