I know. It's all that us vs. them foolery of the PC games being the only "true" and good games while console games are always mass market drivel that cannot ever be anything else, while PC gamers are the 'true" hardcoe gamers while any console gamer is a twelve year old shooter obsessive adrenaline junkie who'se "RUINING MY GAMES" as I always see it put.



Personally I'm astonished we've only had this many threads that try so hard to say consoles dumb down the 'real" hardcoe games without having to actually say it. I play RPGs and prefer my games to be smart and have an edge to them. I also exclusively play on consoles. According to some, those two facts should be mutually exclusive.

Seriously, if I had a dime for all the things saying that it was "sad" that so many developers were "selling out" by developing on consoles and therefore "limiting" and "dumbing down" games that "could have been so good if it was PC exclusive" I'd have the money to finish college. If I counted all those separately I could finish college and pay off my loans as well.

Honestly though it's better than some other places I've gone where developers are held to be sellouts for not actively trying to screw console gamers for being such "CoD 'tards" as they say. It's really vaguely insulting to me as a console gamer and very insulting to the multitudes of polite and well-spirited PC gamers I know.

Yeah, I realize that. But things change over time. A lot of people who play TES now prefer the console experience. Todd himself has said that he prefers the 360 version... so maybe he chooses to develop it so that it's compatible on the 360 because he likes it on the 360... not because he's sitting there grinning and counting his money.

By the time Morrowind came out they had just as many Xbox sales as PC sales, so unless you're talking about back when Daggerfall came out, and consoles were marketed basically to little kids exclusively... I don't see your point.

They're developing it this way because they have experience doing it this way, AND More than half of Bethesda's gamers are console gamers these days. Honestly, to do it any other way would be a slap in the face to a lot of people. Todd himself has even said he prefers the 360 version. It's not like they just don't care about the PC community, like you're saying, but they care equally about console gamers. Why should they only care about PC players? If they were really like, "Money is everything" they'd have some crappy wii version of the game coming out as well... which won't happen.

People should stop comparing PC specs to console specs simply because a console has less overhead (Operating systems) then a PC and developers can program to the hardware because it doesn't change. Sure you can build a PC for not too much more then a console that would beat it graphically, but good luck trying to mimic the XBox 360's specs and try to play most games available for 360 on it (PS3 would be tougher because you would have to get your hands on a CELL).

And for the record since people can't seem to agree on the numbers:
360 RAM = GDDR3 .7GHz 512MB-shared 10MB-GPU
PS3 RAM = XDR 3.2GHz 256MB-CPU GDDR3 .7GHz 256MB-GPU (GPU can also access CPU RAM)

When I sit down and think about it, when Todd said Skyrim will be about as big as Oblivion because it felt like a good size, that really maybe it's because that's as big as the they can really get it on a single dvd.

What's everyone's problem with Skyrim's size?

Oblivion was big and empty, they haven't used up the space like they should, that's why Fallout was smaller but more compressed and varied. Now maybe we will have the same variety like in Fallout and Morrowind but with the size of Oblivion.
Oblivion was pretty big, I don't see the problem...

Mind sharing your retail copy of Skyrim with the rest of us? Because youre posting as if youve played it.



Thats not really true. Gameplay can indeed be hurt by consoles. Many games have had features cut or reworked throughout the series simply because the gamepad doesnt have a button for it. Consoles especially have trouble with a lot of physics which again can influence gameplay direction. Consoles also undoubtedly increase the number of loading screens by a massive amount.

It has nothing do with the hardware. The reason Skyrim won't be bigger is because the team isn't large enough for that, and environments would ultimately become empty and unengaging if too big. Play SWG and you will see that huge environments are not okay at all. It is how the developer uses the space they have that makes the experience great.

Are consoles holding Skyrim back technical-wise? Yes.

Would I like to see BGS make a true PC game? Yes.

Is the majority of TES fans on PC? No.

No point in even adding The Witcher 2 into the mix as CD Projekt Red has always been a PC developer. I will vouch for the game being amazing graphically though, can't stop playing it.

Got anything to back that up? If not, then it's only jibberish.

I don't need anything to back it up, BGS has stated it and it's clear common sense. No offense.

Most gamers are on consoles, as PS3 and Xbox 360 are the platforms of choice for most consumers (they are cheaper than PC). PC has always been a clear minority since Morrowind.

Let's see do I want the game to have a MUCH smaller budget because it would be for the PC only just for pretty pretty graphics or do I want the series to have a nice big budget by them making the game for a wider audience rather than catering to a minority of PC enthusiasts?

The answer is an obvious "I want the game to have a higher budget." If you buy PC hardware preemptively (which isn't an economically smart thing to do unless you are a PC enthusiast for the sake of it) that is your choice to spend that money early.

I think it would be awesome if Bethesda shows off Skyrim with Nintendo's new system with some more advanced graphical features to be in a Café version and options for the PC version, but my excitement for this game won't be one sliver less if that doesn't happen.

It's only an illusion.

1 x Xbox 360 game cost 78 euro.
So if you buy 8 x Xbox 360 games over 1 year, that's 624 euro.
And if you don't own a Xbox 360 (Xbox 360 Slim 250GB) will cost you 261 euro.

And if it's true what you are saying.. that gamers are on consoles they likely to buy more then 8 games for Xbox 360 over 1 year. That will cost you 885 euro.

And for 885 euro you can get this gamer PC:
SteelSeries Siberia Full-size Headphone
Antec Dark Fleet DF-30 Midi Tower Sort
Silver Power SP-SS620M 620W PSU
Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3, Socket-AM3
AMD Athlon II X4 640
Kingston ValueR. DDR3 1333MHz 4GB, CL9 versus Xbox 360's 512 MB of GDDR3 RAM clocked at 700 MHz | And this doesn't effect the game development at all? Right.
ZOTAC GeForce GTS 450 512MB PhysX CUDA
Western Digital Caviar? Green? 1TB
Sony Optiarc DVD±RW Burner, AD-7260S
Microsoft? OEM Wired Desktop 400 MP
Razer NAGA MMOG Laser Gaming Mouse,
SteelSeries QcK Deathwing Edition
SteelSeries Siberia v2 Full-size Headset
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit

And PC games cost like 26 to 39 euro less then Xbox 360 games.
So take off 39 euro x 10 times you buy a game for PC insted you save 390 euro!

And then you forgot the upgrades when the "new thing" gets released every six months :banghead: . With consoles your good until it breaks but then you have a warranty, i myself use a PC so im not being biased just realistic.

It's not realistic to upgrade when the "new thing" gets released every six months.

This. If everything would try to use the most power from the pc it can, you'll have to buy a new PC every year...

With the specs he gave, yeah i would personaly see myself needing an upgrade within a year. Then who is going to build/upgrade it?? "its really easy but still most people are intimidated looking under the hood of a PC" But who spends money on 8 games a year, i mean the average console gamer buys "maybe" four per year or Gamefly/rentals especially in these times. To all saying im being ignorant. Would you not upgrade from the specs he posted, as that is what i based my post off of.

They don't rent out games in my country, it's against the law. You go to jail.

They want to make a profit.
They are not just making it for people that like to play Elder Scrolls games on PC.
There is a bigger market for Console gamers.
There is a BIGGER market for CONSOLE gamers.

Let's see, when have I upgraded my PCs? My first one that was "mine" I built back in 2002. Then I needed a laptop, so I bought one in 2007, which was old when I got it (wish they had mentioned it was being phased out for the next model). Then it started having trouble so I got a new desktop late 2010. Yeah, that's not exactly "every year."

You sort of have to ,if you want to use the current technology to it's full potential. I'm not talking about today, I'm talking about next year.

1) As to the first questions of "Do you think\imagine Skyrim today could be technical better on PC if they didn't have to make it for 5-6 year old consoles?" here's what I think:

No, not at all. The reason for this is because they already make games like Skyrim for the PC's graphical capabilities and just scale them back for the console. That's why you can change the graphical settings on a PC but not on a console. Most PC games have low, medium, high, and ultra graphics. Almost always the console is running on low graphics and that's the most it can handle. All consoles are the same (essentially) so there's no need to offer an option to change the graphical ability of the game. Higher end PCs can use the best graphics (ultra) which consoles could never do. This would only be a concern if consoles could play "ultra" graphics and the rest of the graphical options were for PCs less capable than consoles (of which there aren't many that are considered gaming PCs).

2) As for the second question of "Do you wish that 'more-money' wasn't everything, but being true to the PC gaming community was their goal at heart? (Like those behind Witcher 2)" here are my thoughts:

With all due respect, I think you're oversimplifying how capitalism works and specifically how the mindset of Bethesda's executives are. Let's say for argument sake selling Skyrim on the Xbox 360 and PS3 allows equal sales on each platform as does the PC, and we'll ignore the few people who would buy it anyway but on the PC if the console wasn't an option (like myself). This allows Bethesda to project revenue at about 3x what it would be if it sold on the PC alone (1 unit of sale on the PC, one on the 360, and one more on the PS3 for a total of 3 units of sale, vs one unit on the PC alone (1*3=3). With 3x the revenue, Bethesda can do a lot more with Skyrim than they could with PC revenue alone - if you can make more money off the sales, you can afford to put more money into the product to make it better. Games don't vary their prices like most other products, they're always about $60 on the consoles and $50 on the PC (we're also ignoring the extra $10 per sale for console sales vs. PC sales in the above anolysis). Realistically, if Skyrim was PC only, it wouldn't be able to be as good because there wouldn't be enough projected revenue to make it what it is. Honestly, the only way for it to "be true to the PC gaming community" (I assume you mean put out the best game possible for PC gamers) they need to sell it on the console too.

This is just what I think, of course, but I think it should make sense and should be relatively accurate.

Thank you for understanding my point. I agree 100% as its what this topic is about, running PCs at its max performance. Sorry for not making myself crystal clear.

Another one who doesn't get the point - They should make a special edition for PC and not port Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 version over to PC and just do some adjustments to interface and give higher texture, that's lazy.

Theres mods for that in Oblivion, if i remember correctly. Yes i know Oblivion isnt Skyrim im just saying it will most likely be treated in the same manner. Its like walking on razors with you guys one false step then poof bliviongate: .

There's mods for that for FO3, too, but because of they underlying design of the UI, there was very little the mods could to to improve it.

But didnt Bethesda say something in the lines, that modding for Skyrim would be much easier and we can do stuff we havent been able to before?