Xodarap, mind if I help you out and re-provide your answer for the non-subtle among us?





Readme:




In other words, because you are using the Full Preconfig Standalone, you are also using the Pacing Extra Levels module, because it is part of the Preconfig Standalone. The gaining of extra levels indicates the module is working properly, since that's what it does.... give you extra levels. You are also using the "XFO_Perk_Special_DnD_Style" module, because it is included in the Standalone as well, and that is why you're getting an extra SPECIAL point to attribute every so often.

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My question on the subject of the Extra Levels module as included in the Standalone, though, is twofold; one, is it still "safe" to use now that the level cap has been increased for players with Broken Steel (I think it is, but it's always good to check), and two, if it wasn't, or I for whatever reason didn't want it, how could I turn that aspect of the Full Preconfig standalone off? There is no separate module to counteract it (a "No " plugin like MMM OB has for various specific monsters that people don't want for whatever reason).

It seems to me that if I want to change certain choices about the Full Preconfig Standalone, my best shot is to simply take the modules that I want and combine them myself into a personal Preconfig Standalone; is there any special procedure required to do this correctl, or can I just mash my chosen modules together in FO3Plugin Utility or FO3 Edit in one step?

I would also like to know if the sneak rebalance (medium or mild) is in fact borked, borked only in the Standalone (so that if I made my own standalone with the separate module, it would work as intended), or not borked at all (and the reports of it not working correctly are due to other mods the user may have loaded that are unexpectedly interfering with the sneak module). Obviously I want to use it, but I am confused by these reports that it doesn't do anything at all, with regards to the Ninja Perk path, or works "too strongly", making it impossible to sneak effectively under most circumstances.

Glad to see you back, looking forward to the eventual update, and thanks for any help .

LOL, I'm sorry. It's my bad. I actually also thought that it was implemented intentionally to avoid the game being to slow..IN any case, forgive my ignorance. The game is fine so far. I'll report back if there is another problem soon...Glad to have you back and will be waiting for any updates

I was the one who was questioning it, now it seems I've created more people to suddenly realize it as well, but anyway it is supposed to happen under the pulgin of -Pacing Extra levels.

Ah, thank you. I usually refuse to quote the readme in the forums because I put so much time into the readme that I get pissy about having to repeat it Also, some good questions here...



This all points to one big misunderstanding regarding how XFO is intended to work. It's supposed to be one of two ways: Either (a) you want everything the way I envisioned it as one solid module, the preconfig standalone (read: stand alone); or (b ) you instead create your own experience by blending together the modules that you do want to use. Somewhere along the way, I said that it would work, but would be unsupported, to overwrite aspects of the preconfig with contrary mods. So if you wanted high bullet rarity, for example, you could load the high rarity after the standalone and overwrite it. I simply meant that this is possible, not that it should be done.

But I think your further question points out this misunderstanding even better: why would you want to make your own standalone configuration mod? The idea is to just check whatever mods you want. Don't want the sneak? Don't check it. Don't want Extra Levels? Don't check it. Want everything else? Check everything else (of course, one each of subdivided mods like weapskills). In this case, don't check the preconfig, because you don't want my preconfig. The game doesn't care that the info is spread across 30 mods instead of one, it's all the same (unless you get over 255 mods, because a two-place mod index only goes up to "FF"=255). Putting together a mashed mod only causes problems, as my preconfig has shown over and over again. AFAIK, there is no easy way to do it. It's been a huge thorn in my side every time, and because I have to put it all together from scratch, it inevitably gets errors and bugs. I think I managed to do it right in 0.84, but the point is that it's actually easier to just check the many individual mods, because of the way that mod indexing works (two records with the same FormID won't overwrite as long as they're indexed to the mod, because different mods get a different indexing header to each formid). This also means that you should never try to mash together your own preconfig mod. Even if you really know what you're doing, and can avoid the huge host of form/record and scripting conflicts, there's no reason to do it.

As for the Extra Levels (and other pacing) mod's compatibility with Broken Steel... I have no idea, to be totally honest. I don't see how/why they wouldn't work, but I did hear a rumor. I've not received a confirmation either way.


The problem with the Ninja perk path is unrelated to the sneak rebalance. I [censored] up and apparently forgot to add magnitudes to the Chameleon effect in the Ninja perks. It'll be fixed next edition.

As for the sneak rebalance, whether it works "too strongly" is inevitably subjective, but it does work as intended, and I'm sure of that. The main thing is that it makes LOS (line-of-sight) pretty much guarantee that you're seen and caught. This just means you have to sneak up from behind someone or behind an object so they can't see you -- as soon as you move in front of them, they'll see you. There is a small chance that they won't see you if you're still (at very high sneak, and maybe a camo suit). I also changed the effectiveness of "alerts" -- for example, if you shoot a gun in a building, everyone in that building will know you're there, and come looking for you. You can still "re"-hide, but it may be tough. Also, heavy outfits now have a much more detrimental effect on your sneaking ability. On the other hand, if you're sneaking up behind someone in a dark room with light clothing, the new sneak formula will make it easier for you to hide. Everything just has stronger effects, that's all. I think it's much better.

It's not a misunderstanding-- why would I want to make my own standalone configuration mod? Because I'd rather have one ESP (converted with FO3MasterUpdate) than 19, which is the number of ESPs that I've pulled out and put in my "which ESPs do I want to use from XFO?" folder.

It's really that simple. I do understand that it's meant to be either the standalone or self-configuration of individual modules, but it becomes a big deal when the choice is between 1 and picking and choosing among 65 individual modules. Even when you take into account that a fair number of these are mutually exclusive and so forth, it still winds up as a healthy bite out of my allowed number of mods, and that's assuming that I'm comfortable and happy to run a large number of mods, which many aren't. If you consider users who try to keep their mod lists down to say, under 30, choosing among the individual modules is much less attractive, especially if they then involve FOOK, MMM and/or FOIP, which are themselves multiple modules that I am forced to manage with respect to themselves, and each other.

So indeed, I'm looking to take the burden off wherever I can. Perhaps I'm wanting to have my cake and eat it too (it's possible), desiring both the ability to configure the mod's effects as well as ease of management, but at the same time, ease of management has become much more of an issue than it was when this mod was first released, so it's not like I'm completely wacko (I hope ).

Here is what I have for mods:

Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
Fallout3.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esp
dD-Larger Blood.esp
XFO_full_Preconfig_STANDALONE.esp

In that load order I also have the latest official patch as well.

My issue is that every so often I will kill an enemy or complete a quest and I gain the regular experience for that situation and then a second or two later I gain whatever experience was need to gain the next level for instance I was level 7 and I have about a 10th of the experience need to get to level 8, I killed a ghoul gained like 5xp and then a second later I gained like 2096xp or whatever was need to bring me to level 8. This has happened before on lower levels as well. I have tried to use the console to reward negative experience and it works up until it hits a certain amount and then bang I receive whatever was need to bring me up to the next level. I am not sure if i have the load order wrong or because I have the unofficial patch and the latest official patch if that might be causing this to occur. Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.

Xoda, while we're on the subject of the sneak system... one major problem I'm having with your sneak changes is the massive RANGE at which those LOS bonuses apply. I'm getting killed repeatedly by snipers from Talon literally before the character gets 'drawn' on my screen. Is there any way in the next version to limit the range at which that LOS bonus applies, so that I can actually sneak AROUND encounters in the Wastes, instead of somehow being a beacon for every psychopath within a two mile range?

I am also getting wiped out from afar...

Here is an encounter that keeps killing me that I posted at the Nexus:

"I'm getting owned at every encounter with Raiders in the open. They tend to spot me from far away and then shoot accurately from a distance, forcing me behind cover while melee runs up. I can normally take out a couple melee guys but then get wiped out in a cross-fire as the guys with the long rifles (or just SMGs) shoot at me from different sides.

Can anyone give me any advice on how I can get past the awkward start of XFO? I'm getting owned constantly."

Also two more things:
1) My stim packs with ~30 Medicine only heal 48 HPs...is this normal or do I have a mod conflict?

2) It seems like there is a random chance for VATS shots to be completely ignored by an NPC resulting in no damage. Anyone else see this?

Toryn: Yes, I am exactly experiencing the same issue, except for the Stimpacks. I have about 35-40 Medicine skill, and it heals about 70-80HP for me (dont remember which exactly, I'm at work).

About the raider or enemy spotted me in the open from far away, yes I'm getting that one too. About all of them (raiders, mutants, slavers, etc) being too accurate, that one is happening too even though i cant be very accurate either. It's kind of cheating for the computer, really.

I got 2-3 instances where I shoot/nade an enemy in VATS and it wont damage the guy. There are also cases where there is this raider or mutant that doesnt wear more armor than the rest of his/her companions, but they receive a lot less damage. I looted and it will be the same crappy raider armors...Not really sure whether this is the intended design or a bug as well. Any comments?

I also see the problem where one raider will have take loads of shots to go down. This happened to me a couple times in Springfield Elementary...I would put down one or two raiders in a couple headshots but find that the next guy in line takes a whole clip from an assault rifle and is still going. I see the health go down, just not very much.

VATS with VATS_50 seems kinda buggy. I can shoot someone and they don't take any damage (ala terminator movies). I can also queue up a load of shots but then my VATS run gets interrupted and I drop out of VATS without having done anything.

The hyper accuracy of the NPCs really svcks. It's like I'm fighting Delta squad dressed up as ravers.

The food/water addon could use some refinements -some foods seems to be unaffected and moira's food sanitizer doesent seem to have much effect on anything.

I think you're missing my point... There's no reason to minimize your total number of mods. Unless, like I said, you really are approaching your 255 limit. But even for Oblivion, which has been out a hell of a lot longer, I only have 190; and that's with everything I can even think to add. Remember, the 255 doesn't mean you can only have 255 in your list; it means you can only have 255 running at a time.

Even if your idea is to minimize the clutter and somehow the tedium of dealing with so many, the tedium of compiling your own standalone would be far, far worse. It really isn't that bad, since in 0.84, I sorted them out for you -- they're all clumped together as they should be in FOMM (I think...). Besides the inherent difficulty in managing the many FormIDs (including making sure you sort out 00 overrides and 01s, and nixing dupes), recompiling all of the quests and scripts (which will un-link from one another due to the FormID mess), and keeping track of all of the records and subrecords you're moving, the standalone also kills your compatibility with other mods, if you make it yourself. You would also have to create your own uninstall scripts. Trust me, not worth saving a little clutter...

Of all the "accuracy not dmg" variation mods, which would be the most balanced? mild, medium, or high?

And the gimp on melee you talk about... do you mean it changes into a morrowind-style dieroll thing?

Xodarap,

Just a quick question I guess... I really have a problem sneaking with my sneak around 70 with the modified sneak recon armor (+15 sneak, +10 stealth cloak) and trying to sneak my way past Talon companies. There are 3 of them facing completely the other way and I was about 10-15 feet behind them but every single time they always detect me and started shooting..Any reason why this is?

Other thing is that I tried fighting raider on the southern part of the wasteland at level 9 with scoped hunting rifle and the same armor. They killed me while I was being stealthy and cloaked (only 10%) with one shot to the head with the N99 pistol..Is this intended? Seems like it is unfair now more than 'balanced'. I set the difficulty of the game to Normal and didnt seem to make any difference...

Since you said you are working on the sneak system, is there a way I can enable the stand alone but disable the sneak tweak that you put in there? If I have to disable the stand alone and put each individual esps to get it to work like before without the mod, that would be great also. Could you help me with that, please? Thanks in advance.

MisterJedi,
I'm not Xodarap but I had the same issues you are describing.

Through careful reading of the readme you should be able to discern every esp used for the standalone. replace the standalone with those esps and you now fave a defacto standalone. Now you will be able to turn on/off anypart of the mod that doesn't work quite how you thought. Also I believe that there are some bugs found in the standalone that can be fixed by loading the esps individually. I find the sneak esps work great indoors, more realistic, but become very frustrating out in the wasteland. You can also choose the Damage/Accuracy esp you think works best for your playstyle. I think that the standalone was setup as the way Xodarap likes to play and that XFO becomes truly great when you choose your esps yourself.

A couple things I've noticed.

Using "Accuracy/not dmg" doesn't seem to affect grenades. So you end up with sort of ridiculous stuff where you're 10x more accurate with a grenade at a very low skill than you are with a gun at a somewhat high skill. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, since all I have is anecdotal evidence to work on.

Also character growth still seems way too fast, almost as though it was designed for Fallout 1, with 18 skills at 200% max each. Here I can get a tagged skill up to 50% at level two! I think many elements of the formula should be cut down and initial stats based on SPECIAL should also be lowered.

My idea is have a tag bonus of 10, then make the skill point formula
[3 + (Intelligence)] * 0.7

I tried to do all this myself but im no good and it broke

I dont use either the Accuracy or Damage Weapskills part of the mod as much as I would like to as by all reports and by my own experience the Weapskills seem really broken.

I have found myself that the Weapskills mod breaks the Wasteland Survival Guide quest for example.

Though I am not sure if it could even be fixed...

How does it break the quest?

When you go to the Tepid Sewers to deal with the mole rats the Weapskills esps interfere with the script that causes the Mole Rats to die and their heads pop off when you smack em with the Repellent Stick.
They die but their heads done pop off cos the script doesnt run properly or at all.

And because the script doesnt run because of the interference caused by the Weapskills mods (and it doesnt matter which one you run accuracy, damage, or accuracy and damage) the quest doesnt "see" that you have killed X amount of Mole Rats and thus doesnt complete. Unless of course you go back and successfully lie to Moira about completing the quest but then its not really properly finishing the quest is it?

Hooray, I think I got this working for myself.

I've been using XFO since I can't remember when, probably not long after I started FO3, and aside from the beginning versions, I've never had any problem completing the Wasteland Survival Guide quest with a Survival Guru perk ending. I used the XFO_Weapskill_damage_not_accuracy_med esp, and since I added FOOK to my mods, the FOOK version. Every hit with the Repellant Stick causes a molerat's head to pop off. Perhaps it's not XFO, maybe it's another mod?

I dont mean to be cheeky here but I am not an idiot you know.

I triple checked.

I disabled ALL my mods except XFO and it happened, i went thru each XFO plugin disabling and re-enabling to find the culprit; when i disabled the weapskills esp (No matter which one) the quest scripts run properly the mole rat heads pop off and i can finish the quest.
With the XFO weapskills activated it breaks.

At first I thought it was MMM because you know MMM messes about with the creatures in the game; but after testing for it myself and asking for help in the forums I have determined that the problem has to be with XFO unfortunately. I am not the only one encountering this problem.

If it works for you then you must be lucky, or perhaps maybe just incorrect.

I thought maybe it was a conflict but as I said unless its conflicting with itself, then it cant be.
It confused the heck out of me to be honest because it took numerous tries and combinations of esps to pin point what one seemed to be causing the problem - the weapskills esps.

EDIT:
I just want to point out that I too have used XFO pretty much since it started and it worked just fine on my old rig - i encountered no bugs at all ever. That I noticed anyway.

Thats why I didnt suspect XFO right away when I first came across this problem on my new rig; because it worked before it should work now right? It took me hours to work my way down ALL my mods to find out which ones were seemingly breaking the quest. XFO weapskills.

But I didnt post to complain about it; but to add onto what someone else said they found wrong with the weapskills esps...

Any talk of a Broken Steel ready version of this excellent plugin? Or does it already work with all DLC? Thanks!

From the 0.83b changelog:


Unfortunately, I can't be perfectly specific about *everything* in the readme or it would be three times as long, at least, and most people are already overwhelmed by its size! The hidden fact: the "fix" is in the scripts of the "Stat Changes" esp, considering that it's hopefully the most commonly used esp (also included in the standalone, of course).

FOR THE STANDALONE USERS:
I always thought that this was clear, in the readme and by obvious sense: the standalone is ONE possible "mix" of the XFO esps -- it's the mix I recommend and use. However, it's only that. It's NOT the only way to do things. XFO is a collection of many individualized esps. They are made to mix and match: if you don't like something, don't check it; check all the ones you want. You can't "remove" things from the standalone, and you can only safely overwrite some of the mods included in it. It's not supported or recommended, at least unless you understand how mods work (from the inside).

If you don't like something about XFO, don't check it. Only use the standalone if you want the "complete experience" as *I* deem it. For example, the poster above hates the weapskill esps, and I personally consider them to be the most important part of the whole mod. But that's why I made it modular. In the future, there will not be a standalone, for many reasons. Don't worry, I have a better idea.

Where am I and where's the new XFO?
The new XFO is a complete rethinking of the mod, and will be radically different. As such, though, it's moving into ground I've not yet covered, and I'm not a computer programmer. So it's been running into difficulties. None of them terminal, I'm sure, but time-consuming. I've received offers for help, and I'm not ignoring them. I will probably need them. But I'm only like a quarter of the way through the "skeleton" of the new mod, so things are going slowly. RL has its bumps and wrenches, too...