...I do not know what the heck these guys at gamesas think who they are.

As long time employee in the RPG World, it has been a very interesting way until now.

Today, when I am reading those Skyrim reviews from 2011 and the overwhelming resonance again, I feel so comfortable, I would like to load up Skyrim and start playing right away.

But then, something strange happens. I totally loose interest.

After 3 years what is left from the über RPG?

Well, technically, I would mind 3 things most.

The super cheap collision mechanics, not allowing sophisticated combat. Basically you kill a rat the same way as a super golem.

Hit the button, x times. I won't elaborate on Dragon combat here...but it could have been really good.

The lame ambient lighting. Wow, it is a role playing game, and the lighting svcks. Ok, this is just very important, anyway...

The ever funny and exciting loading screens in transitions. I love them, really. Half of my day I am thinking about loading screens now.

I feel exactly the same way in common situations, when I am waiting for a phone call, or at the train station, I really would like to have those loading screens there as well.

They might have a loading screen party at gamesas someday. Cool.

Ok, we all know half of all Elder Scrolls players are colorblind, and not very demanding. But what about gameplay?

After thinking a long time, I guess gamesas has limited capacities, yes, the coffee machine couldnt handle those additional twenty mission & level designers, which have been missing desperately.

In fact they could have made Skyrim missions really exciting and rich in variety, which they are not.

They follow basically the same scheme:

Talk to someone - kickoff, Go somewhere, kill everyone, come back and --phew, thank you, you did a great job.

Amazing. But why do they feel all the same.

For example, the wolfskull cave mission, potema and so on. They reused the same assets to build a cave fortress. What a mess!!

Neither is it challenging, nor tricky, nor ... what else could I mention here? I am in lack of the words, of inspiration. Skyrim is literally a blackhole.

Where are the ideas? Where are quests which are complex, diverse, with their own ambience to remember.

Quests wich demand the explicit use of your brain, some brain at least.

Quests which are mystic, challenging, mind dazzling?

Is there a quest to unlock such in Skyrim?

It seems my copy is locked to 12 - 16 yrs old veterans.

Another big sacrifice has been made to magic. What has it become.

A fireball spitting freezing machine. Skyrim is just combat magic.

Everything is literally about combat. Well, of course, everyone who loved Oblivion was eager to have it this way. A medival combat s(t)imulator.

In other words, magic is much too simple. You find a scroll, read a tome, buy a spell, and whoops there you go. Spells that won't fizzle, or need a long time to master, whatever.

It is just like...well it feels like all those wishes from past Elder Scrolls games have been fulfilled without recognizing this would backfire someday. It is only half way.

Is there any approach toward progression among Elder Srolls mongers? And I am not talking about perks and such...

Conclusion, there are some reasons why Skyrim can become really boring, it really depends on your experience with RPG's.

Causal or new gamers probably won't meet them at all.

Now, where is my Skyrim diffuse spell...

Heh.

I'm suprised you didn't write anything about quest markers. What's your opinion on them?

if game studios would only make games for the hardcoe rpg fans or other niche games they would all go down under

sad but it is the reality

i also wish for a return to the days a group of people would sit around a table , some sixpacks near by and enjoy a good old fashion paper and dice rpg but those days are long gone

What are you talking about?

What would make TES a hardcoe RPG series? Better combat, better quest and level design, optional quest markers, more spells, harder puzzles than the ones we saw in Skyrim? That doesn't sound too hardcoe, does it?

"Oh, you want your games to demand some thought? What are you, a hardcoe RPG fan? Game studios can't make games for you, they have to make games to sell for normal people, who don't enjoy reading or thinking. You want to follow directions instead of quest markers? Bah, go play your tabletop RPGs. Stop trying to ruin our games with all your hardcoe reading and.. stuff."

Yes, I was not referring to a 'hardcoe' rpg. What would that be?

No, I was talking about those flaws making this RPG somehow boring by time.

The sedative quests are only one part, the simple magic another.

Well, all this is going to lead into questioning the game design & aims which were inherent, after Morrowind and Oblivion.

So, are there any ideas at gamesas? Besides making huge piles of money, which really do make a lot of fun. Over and over.

In contrary some game elements do not. Skyrim is about repetitiveness. It is an open world rpg, an attempt, and therefore it is usual to have repetitive elements.

However, do they really mind, as long as most of their players already forgot everything after solving the next quest?

Of course Skyrim has a lot of content, but it is only challenging for people with a severe dementia. Sorry bout that.

That is what game design is about. And Skyrim is poor in this regard.

TES is supposed to be about exploration, and that's why I don't get why the game was designed to be played with quest markers on. Or your compass showing locations you haven't found yet as you approach them. Or putting most of the loot in dungeons in predictable places within chests, instead of hand-placing them in hidden areas, maybe some hard to reach places that require some acrobatics. And loot that is custom tailored to your level, so no big suprises there.

Does it make any sense? No. At least give me some reasons to actually look around in a dungeon. Even those shorter dungeons feel longer when you're checking every corner and jumping across platforms looking for valuable items. Is this too much to ask, in a game where you spend most of your time in dungeons, where most of the quests involve dungeons?

Skyrim is a game that drops you into a huge and new open world, but assumes you're too afraid to let go of the hand that's constantly guiding you. It assumes that you can't figure out simple stuff, that you'll get confused without quest markers. It assumes you can't even find quests on your own, and is more than happy to bring them to you. Even daedric ones. In earlier games, finding those daedric statues was half the fun.

So yeah, I think the series is being ruined by forced use of quest markers, compass, no hand-placed loot and level scaling that tries too hard to be balanced, resulting in predictable loot. There's no harm in giving the player suprisingly better loot once in a while, as a reward for thoroughly exploring a cave, maybe even with enemies that aren't scaled to your level.

If TES6 does not have spellmaking, I am not buying it. So ending my 15 year love affair with the series, because it changed into something that is not TES anymore.

I gave Skyrim a chance and the magic system just was not any good.

Id still buy it but Ill write beth many many angry letters. Ok responding to the op I wish there was a mechanic were my character has to use the bathroom in a certain time or He'll go we we on himself or worse and npcs wouldn't want to go near him/her and we have to watch the animation. GOD WHY CAN'T BETHESDA JUST CATER TO ME I'M THE MOST IMPORTENT PERSON IN THE WORLD!! AVERYONE ELSE IS DUMB WAH WAH WAHH WAAAHHH.

"Oh, look! Someone posted valid criticism on Skyrim's combat and magic, quest and level design and mindless puzzles. Quickly, let's respond to it with overly exaggerating nonsense, trying to be offensive but ending up making myself look stupid. After all, they're all self-centered asses who demand insane stuff like interesting quests and enjoyable combat and magic."

By now it is what it is.

If you don't enjoy the standard Bethseda put out for us, get a PC and edit the game with mods. That's what everyone has done with TES games in the past and have done with this one. I agree Bethesda didn't finish off this game as well as their previous TES games, but that's what you get when Oblivion really grew the fanbase. So Skyrim was catered at least some what (I'm sure a lot) to mainstream gaming and mainstream RPGs. Honestly from a straight gameplay perspective, I agree with the OP. I have also become less pessimistic over the years and can settle with some things that aren't going my way.

I play on PS3, just so it's not confusing about my comment on mods. I enjoy the game just fine. Use some freaking imagination and stop being a negative nancy.... You could also stop playing and commenting on the game if you don't like it. When's the crusade to punish Bethesda for their treachery with Skyrim going to end?

NO MY POINTS ARE COMPLETLY VALID I WANT EVRYTHING POSSIBLY IMAGINABLE IN SKYRIM THAT WAS EVER IMAGINED BY HUMANITY EVER!! I DON'T CARE!! I WANT IT NOOW NOT LATER NOOOW NOOOOOW I'M GOING TO HOLD MY BREATH UNTILL I GET WHAT I WANT...................
.....................(THUD)..... No but seriuosly beth bring back spell crafting replace it with something else if you have to like shouting for instance...well since the next game won't be about skyrim and the nords.

So you made urself comfortable on top of the cozy Skyrim couch, and it shouldnt change? a brave warrior you have become.

Yes, we all love the chicken walk. This is why everyone was so freaked out by Dark Souls, which is a masterpiece. It doesnt try to lure you into half baken stuff it can't handle well.

Therefore it isnt really open world, but what it does, it does really well, and intelligently.

And yes, even the loot becomes trivial, like everything. Once stuff doesnt use off anymore, and and and and. It is not my job to offer solutions here. Skyrim made my brain stop from working.

However, I have one proposal to make, pls post the photo of the next guy responsible for game design in a Elder Scrolls game. It makes me mad to have noone to associate with this incredible work.

Someone could probably use it for a mod....

I don't even know what you mean by that. No, it shouldn't because very few people even care anymore. You do, which is fine but stop trying to get "justice".

Here's a clue: Don't buy TES:VI

Well, adding in voiced directions for quests and an option to turn off quest markers would be a great start. Not something you can fix with mods in a satisfying way.

The thing is, if there's no one voicing their criticism on the game, about removing stuff we enjoyed in earlier games for example, why would they add them in the next one? "Nah, attributes? Who wants attributes back?"

You could say it's unrealistic to hope that writing all this in forums will make a difference, but what else can I do? I don't want to be content with mediocrity, and I don't want to give up on pretty much the only series I enjoyed.

If it makes you feel better, go ahead. It's not like it means anything one way or another.

Venting does make me feel a bit better. Thanks for your approval.

I agree with all of this but want to add a comment in loot. I tend to prefer random loot because with hand placed loot, the player knows where all the cool stuff is after the first playthrough, so it cuts down on exploration in subsequent playthroughs.

But I like the idea of having less balanced leveled lists for loot, so you could have a chance of finding high level loot at low levels. I also like the idea of hiding a few loot spawning points in hard to find/reach places and then making these spots more likely to spawn higher level loot.

Another issue I have with Skyrim loot is that it is mostly boring. It's all Minor, Major, Eminent, Extreme or Peerless. That is so mindnumbingly boring and gamey to have everything follow a standardized naming nomenclature. What happened to all the uniquely named items?

well, we have a voice to utter, that makes sense. Otherwise we would be speechless, and Dolby Digital not existent.

A very fatal approach, and I will try to jump of a cliff in Skyrim and see what happens....

Agree to a try & trash game design? Perfectly for those console junkies, mesmerizing the whole rpg market onto their needs?

Skyrim fits perfectly, fast food, fast gaming, whatever. If everything becomes so trivial and bland, it is best to stick with fond memories.

A market is subject to endless research, but is game design or rpg's as well? Does a market control everything at the end?

Why should I care how causal gamers are supposed to play games which need experience and offer at least some learning curve?

Is school & university like this, just make it comprehensible, so everyone is able to use it without much thinking?

No, I do not agree with such common politics in the video games market.

I'm not the first to say this, maybe not in this thread as I didn't read every post, however, the problem with Skyrim can be boiled down to this. It's been dumbed down for the casual gamer, plain and simple. They don't want to know about, spell fizzle or weapon/armor maintenance. They don't want complex quests which are more sophisticated than here go kill those things to fetch this thing for this fella here and get mad lootz!

Problem is, some of us expect more, more challenge, more complexity, more depth. It's why Skyrim fizzles out after a while and suddenly you're seeking mods to make it all more interesting. As far as the low end graphics goes, sorry but that's another concession to the casual console gamer. I can live with lesser graphics so long as the game doesn't lack these other vital elements, but to throw crappy graphics on top of that, that's a problem.

Decisions have no consequences, there is nothing you can do in this game to break the game. If you side with this faction or that, that's it, you're locked in. Never is there an opportunity for betrayal or intrigue, it's just a matter of, well now you do quests in this line rather than this line, many the same quests, just different NPC's to grant the quests and their rewards.

I'd like to see things like, join the Imperials, have a change of heart and then become a spy for the Stormcloaks, or vice versa. Or, because you bought your house from a Stormcloak aligned Jarl, and now the Imperials have taken the city, you lose your house and all it's contents and they come hunting for you. Picking a faction should have more direct and immediate consequences, and it just doesn't.

And why do quests wait for you forever, and I'm not even talking out of game time I mean in game time, I can fast travel between cities for weeks, then return to it again as if no time has lapsed. There is no sense of urgency.

Again, all of these things are there to placate the causal gamer who for better or worse, has no problem spending their parents money on a game, and that's the problem, things are done not for the benefit of the game, but to ensure the lowest common denominator will play it. It's a money decision, not a 'best for the game' decision.

It's why I wait years before buying these types of games, yes there is entertainment value in Skyrim, absolutely, but not 60 dollar buy it the day it comes out value. I bought this game at about 15 bucks several months ago. Yes I had to wait, but it wasn't worth picking up before it became a value title anyway.

Yep. Me, too. And, since I've only been playing it for about four months, and modded at that, I'm not bored with it.

We're not required to jump in and buy the game, just because we liked a Bethesda game that they made two or three games ago. I waited, made sure that mods were available to fix the things I knew I didn't like, and then bought the whole package with all the DLC for a third of what people paid for plain Skyrim at release.

And there are still things I don't like...can't win...

For me, it is not any one thing, but rather how the whole game feels. While I enjoy my time in Skyrim, it is not like the fun I had in Morrowind. I'm not writing them off, yet, but will not support them if the keep down the "streamlining/more action, less RPG road" they have confidently set down on.

I have seen people ask "What would make a hardcoe RPG?" I do not know about "hardcoe", but here a few suggestions I can think off of the top of my head:

1) If I'm with the Stormcloaks, wearing Stormcloak armor, make Imperial Patrols attack me on sight, and vice versa. Something more tangible than "just changing Jarls" for showing the Civil War. Make opposing towns opposing to us.

2) Same with the Thalmor, if I am doing the main quest.

3) Make us work at speechcraft and make it a feasible skill again. Paying MSRP for itams is NOT speechcraft.

4) Make magic viable again, not a "must tweak" skill set.

5) Bring back reputation and factions. Have separate NPCs (by faction) have different conversations/information for us. Why does Amren, who does NOT know us from any other person, ask us to retrieve his valued family heirloom (sword)? Why does he trust us?

6) Set the scene. Bring back darkness. and make Khajiit's Night Eye and light sources viable again.

7) The world map and journal need work. Have them TES era, not 2000 whatever technology.

And most importantly, design the game forgetting that it can be modded. Not all players have access to mods.

Are those items considered "hardcoe?"

Someone greater than I once said, (badly paraphrasing) "Good products and services will sell themselves." Minecraft had no massive marketing scheme. Word of mouth is more impressive then ever thanks to the internet. I did not buy Skyrim because of the slick videos. I bought it being a fan of TES (reluctantly due to Oblivion) and other players' comments about it.

Marketing sells games. Great games makes fans:)

Semi-hand placed loot is an easily implimented possibility. If you have say 50 really cool unique items, in any new game have 20 of them picked at random, distribute them randomly between 200 handpicked locations (not in chests). To get all 20 you would have to do a lot of looking and no guarantee in any new game that you could find the one you wanted most. It would give you a motive to explore ALL the dungeons each game.

I wouldn't call recycling the same old classic RPG formula and combat then put it in a punishing package a "masterpiece". Attack, roll, repeat is seen in the Witcher, Dark Souls, Fable, Diablo, etc. etc. Skyrims combat may seem simple on the surface but it's much more fluid and flexible then most other RPG's.

TES aren't made to punish the player, they're designed to let you do what you will at your own pace, even ignoring the focus of the game (main quest) and still enjoying it for hundreds of hours...I know people here who didn't touch the main quest for a year or more and still had so much to do which is much more then most games can offer. TES games are far from perfect but what they do, they do well.