One plausible theory I have seen floated around is that they didn't want to make a spectacle of the fact that they captured the insurrectionists' leader, and so they went to a relatively small town that had less scrutiny upon it to execute him.

I wasn't aware that the game said this. It has always been my impression that the people on the cart are being executed for different reasons.

On the other hand, with the Thalmor's ultimate goal of in mind, it would seem short sighted to let petty grievances stand in the way (and when stacked against the threat of unmaking the world, any grievance, no matter how great it may seem by itself, becomes petty by comparison).

It's implied from the thief's dialog, when he repeatedly protests that he's not with the stormcloaks, but no one listens, and from the fact that we are all executed together when the only charge being read was treason.


But assuming we were being executed for different reasons, it doesn't speak well of the Empire that we are executed without trial or even a statement of charges being read for a seemingly petty offense of crossing a border. That almost seems worse than mistaking us for a Stormcloak.

I guess we see the situation differently then. To me, it's not implied at all.

But I do agree with you that it doesn't speak well of the Empire. I was never fond of the Empire anyway. The cart scene does nothing to change my opinion.

Does anyone in-game actually know about the Thalmor's goal though? I'm pretty sure the Thalmor's motives are only explained in supplementary material.

Again, that is practical, and I am not sure somebody like Ulfric will think it through. That is judging from what his character is like in Skyrim. So I leave room that perhaps someone even as stubborn as Ulfric can put aside grievances (and the Empire, since I am by no means a huge fan of them at the time of Skyrim either), but as of right now I don't see it happening.

Also, how many people in Tamriel know what the Thalmor are actually trying to do? It seems like information we take for granted, but in-universe probably only a very select few know about it or the Towers' true purpose. Hell, perhaps many of the Thalmor or pro-Thalmor Altmer might not even know what this war is truly about.

I've read that that is what happened, though I don't recall where. I'm sure it was one of the two wikis though.

I know the game is almost 5 years old, but spoilers please.

Then the Empire can get wiped from mankind if they want then? That would be ridiculous.

you realize no one in-universe knows the Thalmor want to unmake the world? we, as people playing a game do, but in-universe only the dominions higher ups are aware..



as a result, the empire (nor the Stormcloaks) know thats what the Thalmor are trying to do.. so, the Empire views the SCs and dominion as the exact same thing, a hostile foreign military power

News to me....please enlighten me!

This.


Maybe it's better for Skyrim to walk down the path with the Imperials but I fully understand their wish for independence, too. It's a tricky one.


I probably have symphathies for Ulfric and the Stormcloaks because I'm Swiss. We have a direct democracy here and the people would never want to join the European Union. We are proud of ourselves. Proud of being mostly independent. We respect foreigners who come here, working hard and trying to hold up our values. But we're also traditional thinking, trying to preserve ourselves.


I guess people from bigger countries can't understand this. We know it's important to be part of the rest of the world but we still wanna be mostly among us.


That's not racism and it's not a bad thing either. It's just the way we wanna live. Funny thing is almost no other country does have more foreigners than we do (~ 25%) but we still do feel like this and we are lucky that most foreigners in our country do like to work hard (life's expensive here so they don't have another choice).


Guess that's way I can understand Ulfric in a sense.

its not quite the same thing.. if you look at the games dialogue lines, Ulfric openly allows bandits to operate as long as they don't attack "Nord Caravans".. that kind of use of the word has nothing to do with culture, using it in that type of sentence is a clear reference to race..


if it was truly a culture thing, then he would be protecting all the provinces Caravans with the only exception being the Legions

I live in a big country (America) and I understand completely. Mass immigration always causes social friction, and it has nothing to do with people being racist.

I'm pretty sure some Imperial higher ups, at the very least, can decipher it. Talos' theologians should maybe be suspicious, at the very least?

He has a civil war going on, it's the same reason why he doesn't care about the Gray Quarter. The fate of his homeland hangs in the balance. It's not nice and it's certainly not politically correct. As for your wording "openly allows bandits to operate" I think that's a bit disingenuous.

I would tend to agree with this. The world didn't know the full extent of Hitler's atrocities until after WWII ended but still they had a pretty good inkling that the guy was really really bad, which is why both Churchill and Roosevelt were willing to "hold hands with the devil" to defeat him (direct quote from FDR, and Churchill said something very similar). The powers that be in Skyrim and the Empire may not know the full extent of the Thalmor's plan, but they must know they have something really really bad in mind.

Sorry, this has been mentioned so many times before in these debates about the civil war, I thought it was common knowledge. Didn't mean to spoil anything for you. Apologies for doing so. I just added spoiler tags.

Not necessarily, it just means Ulfric is willing to turn a blind eye to bandits preying on those he considers undesirable.

possibly the Order of Talos/Blades if they were luckly, but they have already been wiped out as far as we know.. I suppose there may be other former members in the various provinces, but I think Esbern is a little to focused on Dragons atm the figure it out..

"the fate of his homeland".. you really think his homeland is better off by allowing bandits to pillage their citizens as long as their not "Nords"? meanwhile, the legion is trying to prevent banditry on its entirety regardless of who the victim is (as seen in a few of their CW quests and dialogues)?


if he truly cares for the province as a whole, regardless of each citizens race, he wouldn't tell bandits "ohh sure, just make sure not to attack Nords and I don't mind".. if it was truly a culture thing, a culture is made up of a nation in its entirety, every citizen regardless of race helps define a lands culture, so he would be saying "just don't attack Skyrims citizens", but no, he makes a point to say "Nords", which points to him seeing the lives and livelyhood of Nords as more valuable than others..


if thats not racism, its at the very least racial superiority

they most likely see them as just another imperialistic order wanting to conquer and dominate.. sort of like the 3 Cyrodiilic Empires, or the Akaviri during their invasion, the previous 2 "Aldmeri Dominions" or every other war to gain land that gave Tamriel the nickname "The Arena".. from an in world perspective, there really isn't much reason for Tamriels Citizens to think anything more than that.. did they suddenly think Akavir was trying to unmake the world? what about Reman or Tibers continental conquests? what about that time the Maormer invaded?


no, the other nations most likely see the 3rd Aldmeri Dominion as the same thing as the previous two, an Elvish Empire.. and why would they think that Empire would want to end the world they wish to conquer? thats something only the top brass within the dominion are aware of, most have no clue what their bosses are planning



even then, the only people who might know of the metaphysical importance of Talos (and would be the only ones who may be able to decipher the Dominions goals) would have been the "Religious" division of the Blades, the Order of Talos.. sadly, the dominion spent quite a bit of effort taking them all out, with the only real survivors we know of being an old man and lady hiding in an Akaviri ruin on the face of a mountain, and an old drunk in a backwater inn no one ever visits.. and even if they did figure it out, they aren't exactly in a position to ask for an audience with Ulfrics court or the Elder Council

The real issue with spoilers is that new people are coming to the game all the time. Fallout 4 has probably brought a wave of new players to Skyrim just as Skyrim brought a new wave of players to Oblivion. It's easy to forget sometimes that not everybody has been around as long as we have.

No, I knew something about it already, was just looking out for newer players.

We're seeing Britain try to fight the same battle. We're seeing in Canada where I live an increasing erosion of any sort of national identity, especially since last year. It's gone much beyond even those examples in the game. We have to remember that Skyrim did not get conquered by the Empire, it joined because of Talos, who they believed to be a Nord, inspired them to join his empire. Their involvement with the Empire was originally inspired by their own pride in their native son. Now why should they be the backbone for an Empire that has become oppressive?

I'll need to see the source on the bandit thing, I don't recall it. But again.. racial superiority is kind of off the table as a taboo on Nirn.