Ok, so I approximatly counted how many seconds it takes to reload a crossbow in Morrowind... It took about 1.5 secs.


So, for those who say that even a turtle is faster than the crossbow reload time... They should replay morrowind.

And there's another thing, unlike bows, where your can use them in the middle of the action, crossbows are more usefull when sneaking, because of it's damage and slightly slower reload time than bows.



Now, if we take in real life, bows aren't reloaded in 1 sec... It more like 10 secs... And I'm not counting the aiming time.


Crossbows, because in the middle ages the reload time wasn't fast enought depending on the archer's strenght, they upgraded the crossbows with different mechanisms, like a crank to pull the string or a lever to drag the string easier.
The crossbow being highly effective against heavy armored warriors can also be more precise than the bow, because the gun-like aiming needed less ajustment toward the aiming angle.


So, if the crossbows are "to slow", why not add a crank or a lever to the weapon?

http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/crossbow.htm

Now, tell me the guy isn't cranking his croosbow. Just dare... But, you will have to go the link before...

a crank that big isnt going to spped things up too much
putting against the bow agianst turning the crank & setting the bolt
i personally prefer the bow anyway so im glad theres no crossbow

I really don't think a crank is necessary. Honestly, I like that the crossbow makes up for added its strength with a slower loading speed. It feels more balanced that way.

Do we know if we're getting crossbows yet? I haven't heard.

In morrowind, the crossbows looked like an mini-crossbow...

So that may have made it faster to reload...

you link went to a website with a crossbow and a spear/halberd picture
and they did upgrade it with a crank but I believe that was for war, they would always have one person firing and the other person cranking it, then every once and a while they switched, the problem is it take about a minute or so to reload, and that would have to be the player stopped and reloading becuase you need to use your foot to get leverage.
and really it doesn't fit, Skyrim is supposed to be this barbaric place with no technologies, crossbows are very late, I believe it was the high middle ages that they actually became popular.

Yes for crossbows! I mean, if certain players don't like them they don't need to use them... For me personally, it's great because it just adds more variance to the great weapon mix in Skyrim = more play-styles = more fun. As for the reload time and what not, I agree with lowering the reload time to give the trade off with the bow (and make the ranger choose which he would like to use). This makes pursuing a archer character MUCH more interesting than the same old same old bow...

Here's the wiki page to Morrowind's crossbows:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Crossbow#Crossbows

I'm not sure what you are asking. To me it just seemed like you wanted to display your (well known) medieval warfare knowledge.

I just want crossbows for the sake of crossbows, don't care about reload and all that crap, I just don't see logic in a fantasy world with no crossbows.

Todd could just say they are too lazy to implement them and i won't hold it against him, but i don't want lame explanations like (we want to focus on bows)

Honestly, I think the only crossbows in the game should be dwarven. They should be exceptionally rare, and I mean ACTUALLY rare. Not leveled rare in the sense that everybody on Nirn has one by the time you are level 18.

They should actually make the player go "WOW, nice!" when s/he finds one.

On the topic, they should be slower to draw than bows. They were, end of story.
However, they were also more powerful than bows (with the possible exception of longbows) and they were certainly more accurate. How could that be represented in game? I dunno. Maybe just give them a high "critical hit" ratio that allows them to kill in one hit more often than other bows (or however the new mechanic works).

Point is, it's possible. Not only that, but it's a good idea. Go crossbows!

Morrowind crossbow =/= real crossbow. Real crossbows don't do more damage if you hold them a while like bows and crossbows did in Morrowind.




The bank called, your reality check bounced:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KpFev5x57s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G86x-k-oZ4g&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lZ4co_PbXQ&feature=related




The mechanisms weren't about speed- they were about being able to pull the string at all against the massive draw weight. They traded making reloads even slower for more power.



And slow it down even more...



Yeah, let's see what the link says:

The Crossbow versus the Longbow
The Crossbow was supplanted by the longbow. The crossbow range was 350 – 400 yards but could only be shot at a rate of 2 bolts per minute. The crossbow was easy to use, requiring minimal training and required little strength to operate. But it shot too few bolts! The longbow launched arrows faster than any previous bows. A skilled longbowman could release between 10 - 12 arrows per minute - but required considerable training.


Yep, the link says crossbows were far slower than longbows, and that it did not take anywhere near ten seconds to reload a longbow. 10 arrows per minute, 60 seconds per minute, that works out to 6 seconds to reload, aim, and fire. And as the videos I linked show, throw out aim and one can reload and fire even faster than that.

I did this to prove that crossnows aren't slow like telephonic-internet connections.

I'd call one shot every 30 seconds pretty damn slow, but maybe that's just me. :shrug:

http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/crossbow.htm

"The crossbow range was 350 – 400 yards but could only be shot at a rate of 2 bolts per minute."

He says his accuracy isn't bad but notice how he never actually shows the target. For all we know, he missed all of them, or the target was just off camera. Plus the guy obviously practices alot.




But they are.... If thats what you were out to prove, I don't think you made a strong argument, especially with that link that Alois quoted that specifically said how slow crossbows were. If I remeber correctly, I believed even the skilled Milanese crossbow mercenaries could only shot maybe 3-4 bolts per minutes :shrug:

I'm not trying to out E-fact anyone, I'm just stating my opinion that crossbows were generally slow weapons to use. The tradeoff being less skilled required to hit a target.

Foe the crossbows to be slower, I don't care, but it should be a weapon for chatacters who have low marksman, for higher hit probs than the bows,... While still have a low hit prob.



But crossbows can be faster to reload than in real life... I did some archery once, and aiming may take more time, because in games, it's not like in real life... Aiming is way easier.



But if a lever could be implemented to crossbows in Skyrim, that could solve a speed problem.

You don't stick with your arguments very well do you?

Indeed for the low marksmen thing though. In NWN my mage had a crossbow :hehe:

The slow reload time isnt a reason to ditch the crossbows. Its a reason to keep crossbows.

Crossbows are only worth including if they offer a significantly different alternative to bows. At the moment they dont, but if you gave them a slow reload time, made them more powerful, usable at lower levels of marksmanship and impossible to zoom - maybe we are talking.

Yea, that would make the crossbow an level-up weapon.
And that's good.

Now see, I think bows should be the ones with no zoom and crossbows with zoom. I'm sure the "no guns in TES!!!!!" people will sniff this post out, but crossbows being the more accurate one, they should get the zoom perk.

Levers make crossbows slower, not faster! :wallbash:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/crossbow.htm/printable

Look about two-thirds of the way down that page, and you'll see the fastest reloading type of crossbow: the type with a stirrup you stand in to hold the crossbow down while pulling the string back with both hands, or a rope cocking device. The rope device adds leverage for a crossbow with an extremely high draw wieght, and having to attach the device makes that type of reloading slower than the "stirrup + pull string by hand" method. And levers and cranks are slower yet.

"Now, if we take in real life, bows aren't reloaded in 1 sec... It more like 10 secs... And I'm not counting the aiming time."


Uhhh, no.

An archer (A good one) could probably pump out at least 3 arrows in 10 seconds. With accuracy.

The crank was so that they could pull back a heavier draw string, If a string has a draw weight of 100lbs say it takes 100lbs of force to pull it back, therefore they added cranks and the footret to help an archer pull the string back with ease.

Hell, as long as there are differences - I wouldnt care. Maybe crossbows should be zoomable (though I always thought that bows had the much longer ranges?), but impossible to fire at a higher than 45% angle. *shrug*

I would love having options, and the bow being the only ranged weapon in most fantasy games always upset me. However, while I would really, really like to see crossbows in Skyrim, I have sadly given up on the idea... mostly. There just isn't enough mainstream interest in them.

Or, just the zooming device could be expensive...
Or we could unlock the ablity to zoom with the crossbow after we reach a certain marksman level... (Sounds the same, but when I see "perk", I see "fallout perk")