[Stephanie Kemp]

Okie doke. Hear me out first.

Usually, in a Fast Travel thread, we get "Do you like Oblivion [Yes] [No]", and arguments ensue. I'd like to do something different here. I'd like to merely DISCUSS fast travel, with no raging, flaming, or what-not.

We need to find some sort of middle ground. Any "DONT USE IT!!" comments will be ignored. If you wanna say that, go to the various other "I hate Morrowind/Oblivion" fast travel threads. Personally, I'm a fan of Morrowind's method. I want to feel challenged and have tough gameplay. Here are some of the various issues I feel with Oblivion's system, that need a look at:

• It has the general "Hand Holding" feel about it
  
• It cuts down immersion
  
• When it's there, it's just hard to resist
  
• It removes that lost in the wilderness feel I got from past games. And it's not due to the landscape. I could get lost in Daggerfall's flat landscape
  
• The game world just isn't big enough for it, it worked in Daggerfall due to it's scale, and I doubt it's going to change
  
• It removes the strategy of getting from one place to another

I believe there may be more.

Unless I'm mistaken, the only gripe with Morrowind's system is that it's harder to get around, and people want to get to the action quicker. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd like to suggest we share ideas. Let's not argue about it. Usually, some kind of suggestion in a fast travel thread will be drowned out by the endless ranting and flaming. I feel a thread dedicated to suggestions is what we need. Here some of what I've come up with over my time here, in order of my preference (some are my own, some I've found from others):

• Fast Travel, ala Oblivion, only on horseback
  
• Teleportation spell. Will teleport me anywhere, ala Oblivion, when cast. High end Mysticism spell, also in scroll form. Plentiful supplies in most town. Could also be done with some kind of rune stone. Fits in with the Nordic theme.
  
• Fast Travel only on roads and in towns
  
• Fast Travel disabled with any kind of hardcoe mode. This would only work if it's similar to Fallout, however. If hardcoe mode has various options, and isn't just one mode (Which I hope), it wouldn't work effectivly.

I also believe that locations should only be fast travel-able when you have already discovered them. I should have to find my own way to each city before I can travel to it. We also need a carriage system, of course, but I believe that's confirmed anyway.

Anyhoo, feel free to comment and give constructive feedback. This isn't a thread demanding that the other half of the fanbase play your own playstyle. We're trying to please everyone, here.

[Charles Mckinna]

Keep Oblivion or FO3 style fast travel, add in several Morrowind style options.

Put in an option to disable fast travel when you start a new character, or wait for a mod that disables fast travel.

Problem solved.

[joannARRGH]

I am against being lost for any reason, period. That's all I can say as everything else is banned by you.

I am pro-gameplay. This is more important than anything else, even immersion. And I have nothing to discuss with those who want to play a simulator and force others into their play style.

[Bird]

Make it Morrowind style. but with fast travel options like carriages from RDR.

[MISS KEEP UR]

Problem solved.

Or, and I may just be grasping at straws here, we could actually discuss what this thread is about? Some kind of alternative to try make everyone happy? :shrug:

I think we've established that this system wont make everyone happy. If you want to know why, read the various other Fast Travel threads. I'm not getting into it here.

[Racheal Robertson]

Keep Oblivion or FO3 style fast travel, add in several Morrowind style options.

Put in an option to disable fast travel when you start a new character, or wait for a mod that disables fast travel.

Problem solved.

Mods aren't really an argument either. Not everyone is playing on the PC you know, and since the game hasn't even come out yet, perhaps discussing what will be in the vanilla game is more relevant....

I agree with the OP on most points. The only thing that could improve the system from Morrowind would have been horses. I never used the fast travel system in Oblivion though, except for when you had to escort Martin and Jauffre to Cloud ruler, companion AI was just too annoying for that. But other than that, I didn't have much problem ignoring it. I would have liked an alternative, however...

[Soku Nyorah]

Keep Oblivion or FO3 style fast travel, add in several Morrowind style options.

Put in an option to disable fast travel when you start a new character, or wait for a mod that disables fast travel.

Problem solved.

Amen.

[Victor Oropeza]

DONT USE IT!!
No, really it's just simple as that.

• When it's there, it's just hard to resist

No, it's really isn't...

• It removes that lost in the wilderness feel I got from past games. And it's not due to the landscape. I could get lost in Daggerfall's flat landscape

Which is funny because you can fast travel from anywhere in Daggerfall...

And again, wanna get lost?
DON'T USE IT!!
also I think the fact that you have a map has more to do with the getting lost thing...

• It removes the strategy of getting from one place to another

You do know you have to explore the area first before you can fast travel to it...

Unless I'm mistaken, the only gripe with Morrowind's system is that it's harder to get around, and people want to get to the action quicker. Correct me if I'm wrong.

My only gripe with the Morrowind system is that not every town has a Silt Rider (PELAGIAD!!!), and you move really slowly otherwise...

We already have carriages and the other fast travel, so everybody's happy, I don't know what's still the problem.


but seriously... don't like it?
DONT USE IT!!

[Fiori Pra]

Keep Oblivion or FO3 style fast travel, add in several Morrowind style options.

Put in an option to disable fast travel when you start a new character, or wait for a mod that disables fast travel.
Problem solved.

Fixed.

[Jessica Thomson]

DONT USE IT!!
No, really it's just simple as that.

No, no it isn't for reasons I explained in http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1170154-the-we-want-added-alternatives-to-oblivions-fast-travel-thread/.

See the bottom of http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1170154-the-we-want-added-alternatives-to-oblivions-fast-travel-thread/page__st__120__p__17260054#entry17260054 for my perfect fast travel system.

[kevin ball]

The Oblivion's fast travel is convenient, but if combined with map compass GPS markers, converts a deep role-playing opportunity to live in a world and experience its depth into a fast action game, that plays like this: Click on the map, jump here and kill the lot and jump there and give the item, and get the reward, click on the map and jump there and follow the compass carrot, til you reach the target and speak with the man, and click on the map and jump there and so on...

If you were denied those two fast action tools, you would have to get deep into the game and look around you for a way to reach the next target, and keep looking until you find a tall cliff that is your mark, given by the quest giver.

Turn left and follow the road to reach the tavern, and ask the barman if there is a traveling service around that you could use to reach the next town and so on...

Much more immersive and natural, and in my own experience, entertaining and rewarding when you could finally do the job.

So I vote for complete Morrowind system, inbred in the quest design, with optional FO style fast travel for the ones who need that. I would disable that by a mod.

[Ross Thomas]

Or, and I may just be grasping at straws here, we could actually discuss what this thread is about? Some kind of alternative to try make everyone happy? :shrug:

I think we've established that this system wont make everyone happy. If you want to know why, read the various other Fast Travel threads. I'm not getting into it here.

There's no one solution to make everyone happy. The best way would be to have both Oblivion style fast travel (believe it or not some people actually like this and don't want it gimped because it ruins your experience), and then add in a bunch of other alternative methods like Morrowind had. Then you could have a switch to turn off Oblivion-style fast travel, and everyone's happy.

Mods aren't really an argument either. Not everyone is playing on the PC you know, and since the game hasn't even come out yet, perhaps discussing what will be in the vanilla game is more relevant....

I agree with the OP on most points. The only thing that could improve the system from Morrowind would have been horses. I never used the fast travel system in Oblivion though, except for when you had to escort Martin and Jauffre to Cloud ruler, companion AI was just too annoying for that. But other than that, I didn't have much problem ignoring it. I would have liked an alternative, however...

I was saying the devs should put in a way to turn fast travel off, but since that doesn't sound likely mods would be the answer for PC users.

[Jah Allen]

Any "DONT USE IT!!" comments will be ignored.

Use it... sparingly? :toughninja:

[SamanthaLove]

No, no it isn't for reasons I explained in http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1170154-the-we-want-added-alternatives-to-oblivions-fast-travel-thread/.

See the bottom of http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1170154-the-we-want-added-alternatives-to-oblivions-fast-travel-thread/page__st__120__p__17260054#entry17260054 for my perfect fast travel system.

Those points don't make any sense.

There are quests that requires you to travel far away? Hope you picked a lot of sandviches with you for the travel. You can always just pick other quests you can finish on other towns you meet on the road.
And it's not like Morrowind haven't sent you constantly to far away towns, especially if it doesn't even has a silt rider or dock in it...
And the landscape is not randomly generated, don't know where did you hear that...
And how would an alternative fast travel like a free teleport be any different? You still miss out the whole traveling part, you still don't explore, it still removes the strategy, sense of dare, whatnot...

The game never EVER forces you to fast travel... so you can always ignore it.

[Guy Pearce]

DONT USE IT!!
No, really it's just simple as that.

Oblivion made not fast travelling EXTREMELY impractical. Every quest had you bunnyhopping all over Cyrodiil. You talk to someone in Bravil, and they tell you to go ask about where to find something in the Imperial city, who tells you they know someone to get it for you in Anvil, who says they'll give it to you if you send a message to their brother in Cheydinhal. It was near impossible to not use the system, and it made the world seem very small if you did use it, or very empty, long and dull if you didn't, because you had to go so far to do everything.

[i grind hard]

Have we had anything confirmed about a hardcoe/Role playing mode like they did FNV? This is the only real way accommodate for the different play style.

[Melly Angelic]

The game never EVER forces you to fast travel... so you can always ignore it.

That doesn't change the fact that a large number of people are dissatisfied with the system as it is in Oblivion. You know what BGS should do with their product when a large number of people is dissatisfied? Switch it up.

[DeeD]

So... What's I've gathered from these negative comments:

"Do it my way."

:rolleyes:

Come on, people, we're trying to find a middle ground. Instead of flaming comments and telling me how my opinion is invalid, perhaps try to look at some of the suggested alternatives and tell us what you think of them? Come up with something that isn't a mindless selfish comment that hasn't been said a million times? Seriously, I do not want you in my thread if you're just gonna revert to the way things are done in the other threads. Might aswell lock this otherwise.

LOOK at what I've said. Realise that people other than you have an opinion. Try something that suits all of our needs. A tad bit of brainpower goes a long way.

[Krista Belle Davis]

That doesn't change the fact that a large number of people are dissatisfied with the system as it is in Oblivion. You know what BGS should do with their product when a large number of people is dissatisfied? Switch it up.

Em... They actually did. There is an alternative fast travel system - carriages to get to the places where you haven't been before. Confirmed by Todd in IGN interview AFAIR.

/thread

[Matthew Warren]

So... What's I've gathered from these negative comments:

"Do it my way."

:rolleyes:

Come on, people, we're trying to find a middle ground. Instead of flaming comments and telling me how my opinion is invalid, perhaps try to look at some of the suggested alternatives and tell us what you think of them? Come up with something that isn't a mindless selfish comment that hasn't been said a million times? Seriously, I do not want you in my thread if you're just gonna revert to the way things are done in the other threads. Might aswell lock this otherwise.

LOOK at what I've said. Realise that people other than you have an opinion. Try something that suits all of our needs. A tad bit of brainpower goes a long way.

I think decreasing the need to travel to the other side of the gameworld so very often would help a lot in not making the choice be a "complete in 5 minutes with fast travel or 2 hours without" sort of deal. Keep most quests contained to nearby cities and towns, rather than having to travel from Riften to Solitude and back a few times.

[Kat Lehmann]

I think decreasing the need to travel to the other side of the gameworld so very often would help a lot in not making the choice be a "complete in 5 minutes with fast travel or 2 hours without" sort of deal. Keep most quests contained to nearby cities and towns, rather than having to travel from Riften to Solitude and back a few times.

Personally, I don't have a problem with quests that send you all over the map. Makes real world sense, that's just a fact that some people want you to get stuff from the other side of the country. No reason why the Lich you have to kill should be 200 yards from the city gates, it should be up in the mountains or in the forest. If it's inconveniently far, wait until you are the area for other reasons, then do it.
Some instances could be done better though, no reason whatsoever why some of the Fighter's guild quests shouldn't be posted in every local guildhall, with only 'personal matters' given by one specific individual.
Feel free to disagree, but having all quests requiring conveniently short journeys also smacks of hand holding to me, just seems like something that wouldn't happen except for purely game flow related reasons.


As to this carriage system pleasing everyone, I have a suspicion we will have OB's fast travel, with the exception the towns are not immediately accessible, but they will be once you have payed, which essentially leaves us with OB's system exactly, but at a small initial cost. If so, this isn't the answer to anyone's concerns.

[c.o.s.m.o]

Those points don't make any sense.

There are quests that requires you to travel far away? Hope you picked a lot of sandviches with you for the travel. You can always just pick other quests you can finish on other towns you meet on the road.
And it's not like Morrowind haven't sent you constantly to far away towns, especially if it doesn't even has a silt rider or dock in it...
And the landscape is not randomly generated, don't know where did you hear that...
And how would an alternative fast travel like a free teleport be any different? You still miss out the whole traveling part, you still don't explore, it still removes the strategy, sense of dare, whatnot...

The game never EVER forces you to fast travel... so you can always ignore it.

I don't know what are your sources, but the landscape was randomly generated in Oblivion, it's a known fact.

And please, everyone, refrain from using the "DON'T USE IT" comment, it annoys other people, it starts flame wars and most of all, the OP didn't want this argument to be used in THIS THREAD, so save it.

I agree with Dragonbone on that fact that we had to travel to the ends of the world, it made the world feel small and empty and we had to use fast travel to do it, there's no way around it. Maybe it would've been tolerable if the landscape was interesting enough.

I also agree with the solution Dragonbone suggested on having quests send you to near places. Would be a wonderful solution, with the new carriage system at hand, if the quests weren't so demanding distance-wise, we wouldn't have to use fast travel, or we could only once in a while.

Another suggestion is to limit fast travel, as it's problem was that it allowed you to roam -too freely- around the world. If you could only use it in a certain situation, or once in every few hours, then it would've been better. Let's say, you can use it once a day. That way you can still feel lost, have that "Oh damn, I gotta survive till the morning so I can fast-travel" feeling and still fast travel as you'd like.

Just a suggestion though.

[Kathryn Medows]

Personally, I don't have a problem with quests that send you all over the map. Makes real world sense, that's just a fact that some people want you to get stuff from the other side of the country. No reason why the Lich you have to kill should be 200 yards from the city gates, it should be up in the mountains or in the forest. If it's inconveniently far, wait until you are the area for other reasons, then do it.
Some instances could be done better though, no reason whatsoever why some of the Fighter's guild quests shouldn't be posted in every local guildhall, with only 'personal matters' given by one specific individual.
Feel free to disagree, but having all quests requiring conveniently short journeys also smacks of hand holding to me, just seems like something that wouldn't happen except for purely game flow related reasons.

It doesn't really make much sense most of the time, I mean this is supposed to be a BIG place, so how come you have to go to the other side of the country for basic things all the time? Not saying it should never happen, but it should be reduced. Things like only being able to get theives guild missions in the Imperial City while the only person you can sell to lives in Bruma. Why wouldn't a fence for starter thieves who have all their missions from the IC live in the IC as well? Just those sort of things. There didn't seem to be much logic to the locations of quest points, sometimes, they just wanted you to go as far as possible. I haven't played much of Morrowind but I certainly didn't notice it as much there.

[lauren cleaves]

Personally, I don't have a problem with quests that send you all over the map. Makes real world sense, that's just a fact that some people want you to get stuff from the other side of the country. No reason why the Lich you have to kill should be 200 yards from the city gates, it should be up in the mountains or in the forest. If it's inconveniently far, wait until you are the area for other reasons, then do it.
Some instances could be done better though, no reason whatsoever why some of the Fighter's guild quests shouldn't be posted in every local guildhall, with only 'personal matters' given by one specific individual.
Feel free to disagree, but having all quests requiring conveniently short journeys also smacks of hand holding to me, just seems like something that wouldn't happen except for purely game flow related reasons.


As to this carriage system pleasing everyone, I have a suspicion we will have OB's fast travel, with the exception the towns are not immediately accessible, but they will be once you have payed, which essentially leaves us with OB's system exactly, but at a small initial cost. If so, this isn't the answer to anyone's concerns.

Well, it is problematic when we have to go to a certain place, then back, then go back to that other far away certain place, then back again, and so on. It's too much to do without using fast travel, and you know it. Plus, there's no real reason for us to travel by foot in Oblivion, it had the most boring and repetitive landscape, with a wolf/minotaur attacking you every 2 feet, annoying -like hell-.

I personally think the carriage system is not the ultimate solution, but it's better than nothing, if we can't fast travel right away to the ends of the world, then I'm pleased, at least we would have to discover the ends of the world first no matter what happens "Eventually".

[Mark Churchman]

OP: Unfortunately, all I can contribute is that I disagree with most of your list of issues. And since we're not supposed to be arguing that FT was fine in this thread, that's about all I can contribute. :shrug:




(well, actually.... like I said in previous threads, I wouldn't mind a small chance for FT sessions to be interrupted by wandering events.)