Yes using Morrowind's story again would be the best.
Genius!

Option 3: They retcon dragonborn stuff and let any race be a dragonborn because of course you're gonna be the re-born saviour of the universe. Bethesda considers TES to be a "classical" fantasy universe and story now, and they'll never let the important mystical character be anything other than the player character.

'Dragonborn' is a label, not a role. There isn't any consistency in lore on who is dragonborn and who isn't. Assuming that it is anything more than a label is just so. And you know what they say about assuming, right? When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.

Precisely. The term Dragonborn is not locked into the Septim Empire. It is also not locked into a single bloodline. Alessia BECAME Dragonborn when the covenant with Akatosh was forged with her.

From the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Amulet_of_Kings on the Amulet of Kings:


The Reman Dynasty BECAME Dragonborn when Reman I defeated the Akaviri invasion of Tamriel and forged a new Empire. His descendants later wore the title without being bound to the Alessian Dynasty by blood (otherwise, it would have been a continuation of the Alessian Dynasty). The Reman Dynasty died when Prince Juilek was assassinated by the Morag Tong. If Talos (or Hjalti Early-Beard, if you prefer) were bound by blood to the Reman’s, then it would have just been a continuation of the Reman Dynasty, not the start of the Septim Dynasty.

The bottom line: Dovahkiin is whoever Akatosh (or Shezzar) chooses for the re-forging of the Covenant.

And with my newest posts in my thread, link in sig, Dovahkiin being like Tiber Septim meaning born from Atmora. Where I know think the dragons are coming from. Or where they've been.

Yes the Nords believe Tiber Septim was from Atmora. See my thread for more.

I'll just say it again, dragon-born might just be the same deal as with the Nerevarine. Born in or arriving from Cyrodiil, under the Empire's crest. In fact, this very thing is the logo for Skyrim. That makes it highly likely we'll play that role. I really tend to believe Beth has learned their lessons from people being outraged about just watching the boss fight...

I think it would be pretty funny, all be it unlikely, if the dragon born is the bastard son (or descendant depending on the time of the game's events) of Martin Septim. They could say that Martin snuck off when no one was looking and impregnated a woman he met before he became an avatar of Akatosh and that woman's race is that of the player character.

I'd much rather be the hero/villian of the story than being the hero's adoring fan. If Skyrim forces the player into a supporting role again then TES series is dead to me.

You state this as though it's an either/or situation.

The other option, of course, is that it's a third, completely separate use of the title. This is further supported by the fact the Dovahkiin got his title from the dragons, while Talos got his from the Greybeards.

On an unrelated note, it's interesting how Morrowind seems to have people almost indoctrinated into a certain way of thinking about this kind of thing. It seems like people think that, for the Dovahkiin to be a prophesied hero, that he *must* be the reincarnation of somebody. He doesn't. He can just be a prophesied hero.

This is pretty much what I expect as well. It's been some time since I played Morrowind to completion, but I believe dialogue within the game even left it up to the player to decide whether or not they felt they were the Nerevarine.

And yeah, that "observational" boss battle was among the most anti-climactic experiences in video game history. I didn't rage as hard as some people, but it was a big reason that Morrowind still trumps Oblivion in my book.

I rather choose the second option.

I think that since (so far) the "hero" is having such emphasis on him, its likely we will indeed be the dragonborn. oblivion's hero was sort of nameless and faceless, without even a title (except for the afterthought of "champion" to refer to them in lore)

You misunderstood my post. I was stating that the use of "Dragonborn" was probably done incorrectly in the case of the Nerevarine.

I personally think that Dovahkiin is not a reincarnation but instead, on the rock, it is a prophesy. The dragons do not know who the Dragonborn is! They just know there will be a Dragonborn who will be the only threat to their invasion.




It is not said for certain, but I beleive that he bacame Dragonborn when he withstood the Thu'um of the greybeards long enough to hear their prophesy. Later, people could not look upon him without seeing a Dragon.

In fact! Alessia was also a Dragonborn! Although wasn't she given the amulet of kings on her deathbed? Her descendants could wear it though so i am not sure...



No... Not like before... Not like Morrowind.



Garfield got it from someone else, but In one of his comics he leaps towards a giant hamburger yelling "NEVER ASSUME!!!" He did not want to assume he was dreaming. He wanted that burger. Thats what they say about assuming.



I do not beleive that he is an incarnate of Tiber or anything like that. If anything, he is an incarnate of Akatosh. I am not sure though. I just want to wait and see.


To my knowledge, one must become Dragonborn.

I am not sure that I would want to rule a people who think you have to get freaky with a giant lizard to become an emperor......

There is one factor that could spell the player not being the Dragonborn. When BGS writes the new lore and each individual player becomes the Dragonborn, what then will be the official name of the new emperor when that lore is finally written (upon release of Skyrim). For that reason BGS could make a fixed NPC once again become the hero in TES lore. Just to find an easy way around writing future lore without it being overly tricky to accomplish.

Heck, I thought Martin wasn't even a direct descendant of Tiber Septim? Dragonborn means different things in different contexts (for example, it has been used to refer to Talos as mortal and deity, or the Nerevarine, or to Martin Septim), so we have no way to really know what it means specifically.

For all we know, it could just refer to anyone marked strongly by destiny in the Elder Scrolls, as they seem to tied to the Dragon God somehow in their ability to see the past and future. Although the first PGE suggested it was a prophecy concerning a specific mythical figure, sort of an elven Antichrist*.

*Which would make him a hero to men, I suppose.

Is it possible that it just means someone is going to mantle Talos?

I'm just hoping the Dragonborn isn't a wood elf named 'Tickles' that follows you around complaining and telling jokes. I'm going to trust Todd when he says he doesn't like things that are cheesy 'cause we could be sailing on a sea of fondue here.

I would not say it's accurate to say that the Dragonborn MUST be an Imperial or Nord, since we don't know how that title is used in Skyrim. I would not rule out the possibility of the player not being the Dragonborn, although I would have thought Bethesda might want to make sure the player gets to be the hero this time around since many people did not like how that role went to Martin in Oblivion, but still, you can never be sure about these things, so I'll just refrain from assuming until we get more information.



This is assuming that the Dragonborn will become a new emperor at all. The trailer only said he was the only one "they" fear, nothing was said about the Dragonborn needing to take up the position of Emperor.

I know. I restated that the Nerevarine didn't have to Dunmer to draw a parallel with the Dragonborn, who though one might assume would be a Nord/Imperial, doesn't necessarily have to be, just like the Nerevarine didn't have to be a Dunmer in order to be the reincarnation of a Dunmer hero (Chimer technically, but you get the idea).


Not Tinkles, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Tingle.png

An Argonian named Scratch-and-Sniff will be our fearless leader!

Besides which, if the Dragonborn is carrying out the Empire-founding myth of Talos again, he would take a Cyrodiilic name anyway. Gender-neutral-name Septim I, or some such nonsense.

Haha! What would his friends call him? Sniff?

Of course not! They'd call him old scratch.

For all we know the man depicted in the trailer i simply a previous incarnation of the Dragonborn title, the PC may be the next person to earn the title. Dont take a teaser trailer so litterally.

But not all of the line of Septim were Nords or Imperials. I am pretty certain at least some in that line had Elven mates. Even if they didn,'t with the exception, I would think, of Argonians, the Septim bloodline could be very widely spread indeed. One would have to trace every single descendant back to Tiber Septim himself, and follow every dalliance, every love child ever born to them etc. Indeed, Martin of Oblivion was such a scion, an unknown liviing in a monastary of the hill country. There is every chance that there are Septim descendants scattered amongst the various races, especially The Nords, Elves and Redguard.