I agree. I've played on Master since the start and it's generally a nice difficulty. I ran into problems in the 20's where it actually did get too easy, but I play a Sneak/Archer so it's easy to snipe and avoid direct combat when I need to. Most of the time anyway, Dragons and bosses are different. To make it even harder I levelled a lot of non-combat skills and now it's really nice and challenging even while sniping. I imagine Master is pretty hard for melee characters.

Here's how I see it: the game is rather unbalanced at Master difficulty.

And rightly so. It was designed and balanced and tested on the default Adept difficulty.

I like Master though, especially as a mage. I feel like mages just perform much better on Master because of their ability to keep things at a distance much better than archers ever could. Can't imagine trying to play a melee character though. One orc with a two-hander can one-shot me.

But it's fine I can just backpedal though this door- why am I not moving OH GOD THE FROST ATRONACH IS BLOCKING THE DOOR!

:P

:blink:

Wow, that's some seriously endgame poison there! Not sure that's a good piece of advice for someone who's just at Whiterun / around level 14.

My master melee char had 230 HP at level 14 without taking into account gear boosts. It's not easy but not that hard. I'd say it is as hard as my Adept destruction magic mage was (before I got him to 0% mana costs)

Take Lydia or any other companion. Their immortality helps a lot. When overrun by too many mobs, run away as far as possible until they lose aggro then turn back to pick them out one by one.

Use the traps in the dungeon, it helps a lot. There's no point going toe to toe against a Draugr Overlord at level 14 when there's one of those moving spiked wall traps nearby.

Difficulty is all about expectations.

Some people expect boss fights to take 25 tries on average to win. Others expect maybe 2 deaths on average. If the game on Adept gives 6 deaths on average, it will be very easy for the former person, and challenging/hard for the latter person.

For me, I just don't like playing any game at an artificial difficulty, i.e. making the character purposefully weaker in raw stats than others. Makes no sense to me. I play at Adept only, and just try to keep myself from exploiting. Roleplaying helps a lot in that, for example I never wear a helmet.

A game like Mount&Blade I play at the highest difficulty, which means full damage. Despite that being harder than Skyrim at Adept, I find it more a lot more fun. It's because it's a different type of difficulty than Expert/Master level provides in Skyrim. I don't want artificial difficulty.

I'd say there's a fair gap between 'easy' and 'not hard [enough]'

You are not alone... I tried Master difficulty and got my ass handed to me. I can't see how others find the game soooo incredibly easy. I think some do, but the mobs of people saying it is cake seems like crap; I think most are just saying that to agree with the people that do find it easy. I have to go all the way down to effin novice ever since the resistance bug surfaced...

Aye, I usually find that those who say 'Not Hard Enough' have some constructive criticisms and good ideas which I wouldn't object to i.e: being able to set physical limitations in-game instead of self-imposing them (kinda like a TES version of Fo:NVs hardcoe mode), whereas 'too easy' come here to go "OMG LOOK HOW U83R 7331 I AM LOLORZ"

Not always, but typically from what I've seen. I'd welcome a hardcoe mode actually, that was probably my favourite aspect of Fo:NV and was enabled from the very start.

I just stay in town and chop wood. Seems pretty safe.

Remember to use the environment as well. A lot of times you'll come across a patch of oil that you can light with an oil lamp (which is a trap) but can be used to your advantage. In fact, most of the traps can be traps for the enemies if you're clever.

Poisons are great, of course. Also (especially early) there are some good spells that are helpful, such as the illusion school's calm/frenzy etc, or destruction's rune spells. Also, at level 14, you can get a certain "rose-y" artifact which would help you in a tight spot.

You can be extremely cheap with vegetable soup. Constant shield bash while follower does the damage. I had to do that when I fought Volsung at lv 8 on master

Even now at lv 36 on my current character I cant go solo with a Chief Bandit without using a few potions.

Master is just slow paced, sorry but you need hp pots everywhere you go, and lots of them, become ethereal is a good friend always

On the subject of shouts for Master difficulty, I can't emphasize enough the value of Ice Form.

OT, shouldn't this thread be in the spoilers section? I never know how explicit to be when referencing game elements in General.

The difficulty has always been about how you level. If you just look at stats at lvl 52 its completly different from what you need to survive during the leveling process. For instance

A full crafted ebony set with 100 in smithng, but only having smithing perked to ebony
-no perks or points in alchemy or enchanting, i.e no smithng gear or potions
-no found items
- 4 perk points in heavy armor

will get you to 78% damage reduction (right under the 80% cap)

If your looking at getting to the max level your going to get all your skills up to so 100 smithing is whats going to happen anyway.
By knowing the math all thats really happening is your saving 5 perk points (4 in juggernaut (hvy Armor, 1 in not going into daedric(smithing)) and honestly if you know of certain quests you can do this with dwarven armor and get really close to the cap and save another 2 points in smithing, although you won't be crafting a really good weapon and rely on the weapons in game.

From an RP vs Min/Max standpoint all thats happening here is your saving perk points which you can use for my rp'ish stuff (maybe speechcraft or a little more magic)

When you start looking at damage it kinda falls along the same lines because the stuff your capable of crafting will get so far ahead of the mobs in game damage absorbtion and max health that all your doing is landing 4 nukes instead of 1, which as we all know is pointless.

So what I am basically saying is that the MIN side of MIN/MAX'ing the part no one really talks about plays a huge part in this game and that when you look at difficulty what your looking at is maybe you do need those extra perk points in juggernaut to survive as a sword and board heavy armor warrior for the benefit you get in the early game, even though at the end game those points will be wasted.

The difficulty is their to represent your knowledge of the game and HOW you progress your character through leveling up. The only problem is that they let you switch difficulty at will and thats what I think happens alot, people play at a difficulty level and just lower it when they run into a scaling/wrong leveling decision, 2 Hander oops encounter. They really need to add a hardcoe mode where the difficulty you choose stays for the enire playthrough.

I'm sorry if my post offended you, but you put way too much into stamina. Start pouring lots more into health, and you'll find yourself more durable. It stands to reason, doesn't it?

Also, as you gain more levels, you'll find that the game starts to become a lot easier.

Pretty much this, you can beat things, you just can't run through things. At level 14 you definitely need lvl 3 unrelenting force to give yourself breathing room.

I used to think Master was too easy, then I took a frost dragon to the face.

I think there are difficulty "bumps" here and there. I've only played on Master, but the game seems to trick me and lull me into a sense of immortality and then I hit a spike somewhere every now and then.

There are quite a few different builds that all work on Master (I have taken about 5 different characters to 30 on Master). In general you need to be really mobile during fights and avoid taking hits at lower levels, this is mitigated a lot at higher levels when you get better armor/defensive abilities.

In general some trees are much better on master level than others: Conjuration, Block and Sneak come immediately to mind (along with the crafting abilities obviously).

My favorite character so far is my "mobile army character" who has no offensive abilities and relies on summons, allies, illusion and sneak to defeat his enemies. And this build is actually incredibly easy to play on master (if a bit boring).

thanks for all your posts guys, most of them are helpful and inspiring. I am going to push forward, and from what was gathered so far, its a slow but rewarding process. I will just take my sweet time doing it, no need to conquer the world in a day (or year ). Having an almost immortal companion helps but is not a home free ticket. Foresight is a must for melee, and master diff surely challenges you to make use of many mechanics that are just shrugged off in lower difficulties. Looking forward to anyone`s 50 cent, there is much to learn and be remembered by others, and this may as well help others struggling with their game.

One thing that you can fully capitalize on (though I imagine some people will claim it 'cheap' or 'exploiting' /sigh) is using traps against npcs. You can very much change the battlefield by using those swinging axes or slamming spike gates on the bad guys. Just be careful you don't step on them yourself in the process.

That's not cheap or exploiting, that's tactics. Cheap is for example kiting a mob for 40 minutes.

See your example doesn't help me. In both situations you're using mob AI against it. Is the length of time it takes to kill the indicator of cheapness? Or the method?

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. If luring a mob into a trap is "cheap" because you're using the mobs AI against it then by the same token is hitting a mob with a sword "cheap" because you started swinging early as it runs at you? Or is shooting slightly in front of a mob with your bow "cheap" because the mobs AI runs it in to the arrow? In the strictest sense, how is it possible to kill anything without using its AI against it in some way? In any game, not just Skyrim.

I get what you're saying about kiting mobs around being cheap, but the others I just can't see sorry.

i find the game boring if its not on Master.
Im not using my brain enough.

No what I'm saying is what is the great difference between kiting a mob and killing it to kiting a mob into a trap and killing it?

Personally I don't see either as cheap, myself.