Seems inconceivable that they wouldn't. Sure, the people of the wasteland don't because they haven't a clue how these walking, talking, Not!Humans from the god-like boogeyman work.

But The Institute designed and created them from scratch.

I'd assumed that but if such a method exists then, the Railroad wouldn't be able to hide Synths with new memories in human communities........assuming the method of detection is man portable of course. Even so if the method exists, then the Coursers and other Synths probably know about it and if you had some Coursers rebel the detection method might prove useless since they are the ones policing the Synth population and how quickly could the Institute members be replaced with Synths.......months, weeks, days, hours.

My understanding was that the whole point of the Gen 3 project is to make them so human like that they CANNOT be distinguished. However, there are some 'inconsistencies' in all of this, but there are in all the classic works that deal with the themes, so we can take it with a grain.

In truth, it makes no sense that a Gen 3 would have a Synth Component in them, nor that they would have a "recall code;" a remote recall code would require some sort of transceiver somewhere in their anatomy and if they are designed to be indistinguishable from humans, then how could they have even a microscopic transceiver implanted in them? Your average Wasteland doctor might not be able to detect a sand grain sized transceiver embedded in the pituitary or brian stem, but an MRI or even a CAT scan would pretty quickly reveal it. Even a sonogram or some similar remote detection technology like ECG might pick up the presence of the transceiver indirectly.

If they cannot be remotely recalled using radio or other wireless transmission medium, and it only works when it is spoken in their hearing range (I haven't got that far to know all the details in game) then we still have something that is quite easily detectable. It might take a team of 15 of the most astute scientists a year of interrogation and testing to even figure out how the "recall codes" work but once they did, they would almost certainly have a very useful if not ideal means to detect Synths.

Honestly it seems like The SRB doesn't have much of a problem tracking them down. The issue of reclamation usually comes into play in finding the community to which the Synth was sent and then determining whether or not they are capable of performing an extraction. Not in hunting through said community/group to find which one is human and which isn't. Danse, for instance, can't be retrieved because the area is too secured (by the BOS obviously) as noted on the SRB terminal.

There's no hesitation, for instance, in the Courser who mows down the Gunners in Greene-tech. He doesn't stop to question whether or not the ones he's killing might be the Synth he's after. He appears to know which ones are his targets, and which ones are not. Despite the fact that Jenny could have easily taken up a gun, be wearing Gunner armor, and fighting back. Likewise, X6-88 knows exactly which one of the raiders is Gabriel, despite there being no indication he would know otherwise. Really any-one of the raider in Libertalia could have been him. He wasn't wearing a sign that said "YO! I'm The Synth!"

I mean, its never really explained, but there has to be some method of determination I would think. If the Coursers have it, then The Institute developed it.

Which would make the efforts of the Railroad totally futile and means they have simply caused more anti-Synth feelings with their efforts, although if such a method exist why do they need help finding Harkness in Fallout 3 (who I assume is a ex-Courser), since it seems they lacked the ability then.

Not entirely. I mean, the Railroad is pretty futile overall and not doing a terrible good job alleviating anti-Synth feelings, but if they disguise the Synth to ensure physical identification is difficult, then SRB informers like the traveling merchants would have a harder time of spotting where they were sent to. The key is hiding them by ensuring The Institute doesn't know to which communities/places they were sent. Once The Institute learns, say, one of them is in Sanctuary Hills or something: the jig is up. Coursers are on their way.

Once the Synths are offline from The Institute network, they can't be tracked remotely. So any means of determining where they were sent has to be done with more traditional means. Spies, informants etc. But once they have positive identification as to where the Synth is (Jenny with the Gunners) they send in the Coursers and they shoot first and ask questions later. Identify targets and ensuring they aren't gunning down the Synth they were sent to recapture.

To me, that's the only way it would make sense. Otherwise I can't imagine how the Coursers could do their jobs.

Hmm. Fair point. But, it has been ten years. So perhaps this technology was recently added to all SRB Coursers or something.

Harkness always struck me as an unusual case though. I mean, we never see human SRB agents tracking down Synths in-game. And Director Zimmer went after Harkness personally. Ayo never leaves The Institute himself.

At that point, I doubt Bethesda had thought too far ahead about how Synth retrieval and the SRB works.

There is a remote synth shutdown on the director's computer. The Gen3 are largely organic and the synth component is .1 lbs of plastic which must not be detectable by biometric scanners.


It's possible that the shutdown is radio or magnetic based and they have some part of their brain designed to detect and respond to this change. It doesn't necessarily need to be mechanical in nature.


Coursers actually have a full blown chip in them for using the Gate relay. That appears to be unique to Coursers.


The FEV program was the start of Gen3 research and its attributed (along with the introduction of Shaun's DNA) with providing the building blocks for the improved organs that are used in Gen3's.


Coursers are Gen3 models but not all Gen3's are coursers.

Setting aside the inherent consistencies between: "nearly indistinguishable from human" and "1 lbs of plastic in your head" . . . it seem the Institute is pretty adept at distinguishing their fake people from real people.

ADDIT: was just thinking . . . I actually have a couple titanium staples in MY head! and a lot of people have various inorganic implants of myriad kind. So the presence of a plastic object inside the brain would not inherently make them "distinguishable" from real humans. But it would tend to be a major 'tip' for anyone examining them with a biometric scanner. Unless the thing is somehow 'cloaked' to a wide range of energies, it seems difficult to reconcile how it could be made "undetectable."

Two real options that could work in terms of in-game physics/science:

1. At least several hundred alternative versions of the "synth component" are used, and each of them is designed to mimick some sort of prosthesis or implant that could conceivably be in a real human in the Wasteland. Not sure how advanced medicine is though. On the one hand we have syringes that can heal broken bones, but on the other, people don't seem to be to worried about never bathing

2. Nano technology could work and could be sufficiently advanced relative to any technology available to Wastelanders that it really was "undetectable."

Nitpicking maybe but when I found the Synth Component in that young woman who was being held by the Covenant, I was like "Uh, did you guys not do a CAT scan on this chick?"

0.1 pounds of plastic or 1.6 ounces.


Most modern prosthetics are not engineered to be hidden. I am sure they could be if that was one of the design requirements, especially when allowed to adjust the initial design to accommodate the change as long as the final product appears to be correct to an outside observer.


We know they have X-ray technology for medical use because there are X-rays up in some of the rooms of the hospital. There's also the biometric scanner but we have no idea what type of data that provides.


We do know that they're created with synthetic organs, muscles and bones which at least look superficially similar to those found in a human.

Another thing about the hopes of the SS changing the ways of the Institue: The core problem with the fraction, as I see it, is that they really believe that the ends justify the means. Every questionable thing they committed is just the conclusion of this thought. And sadly, an SS, that becomes the Director, can't change this outlook, as if he/she became the Director, must believe in this him/herself. By that time the SS has betrayed and murdered quite an amount of friends or allies, for whatever goal he/she deemed worthy. And if he or she haven't got them as allies in the first place, then he or she ain't put much effort to broaden his\her views about the victims of the Institute, and so it means she/he isn't the type that has much worries about the people standing in the way of his\her goal. Hoping that a person that is capable of becoming the leader of the institute is willing to go against it's fundamental principles, is fooling ourselves. And should the SS really try to go against the directorate and the ideology: We only need to look at the BoS to see the inherent risk of trying to change a faction for the better against it's will.

But unlike in the BoS you've the upper hand while these changes may (or may not, in fact) take place.

A director that gets into a meeting can pretend to have the entire projects shown to him, waiting for his direct approval before going operative.

Ayo: "director, i thought we can replace these guys, here and here, to get intel about this and that"

Director "What about stopping this replacement program and get yourself working into finding Zimmer and like... dispatching your better units to ensure the CIT ruins aren't stormed from ghouls and super mutants right now?"

Ayo: "but..."

Director: "do you remember where the teleporter is or you want me guide you?!"

In the BoS you will not influence maxson in the slightest way possible, in case of a bos ending, the Prydwen, the Prime, the entire air fleet and land army are a Maxson's asset.

If he wakes up one day deciding to set a nuke in Diamond City, at best you can say "yes, sir!".

But in an Institute end, you're the director, you're the boss, the one that makes the final decisions about things, whether they'd be done or not.

The institute army is YOUR army, just like the minuteman's , but better equipped and trained, you've coursers on your side because they've your own dna, there will be probabily some dissent but you can deal with it, either in a diplomatic way or in a brutal one, to ensure your leadership doesn't get harmed.

You could even give the G3 synths full rights if you feel so.

You're continuating Shaun's legacy, you did established peace for the Institute through destroying of all their known enemies, now all the measures that have been taken prior, under a waging war, can be interrupted and it will be a fully legitimate director's decision.

The institute doesn't risk to get wiped anymore, doesn't need synth-human spies, doesn't need bodies for further experiments, doesn't need energy that badly anymore, its pretty much safe and running.

And by the end its quite clear how you're strongly supported within' the institute, expecially if you solve peacefully "a house divided" quest.

Seems like we diverged from the topic of the Institute to synth stuff again.

I do think that a belief that you character is the good guy who's going to change the Institute is more than a bit naive, not least to get to that position you probably killed and betrayed people who trusted you.......maybe its just me, but if I'm taking the Institute option its because my Character has no problem with their past actions. So while I may change the day to day operations and perhaps fade into the shadows (ending the infiltration) it will be for my Character's benefit not out some belief that they are doing good.

That's kinda going to become my character, he doesn't really care about the whole synth thing he is just creeped out by human looking robots and thinks the Institute needs a little lesson in ethics but everything else about the Institute impresses him enough to join. That and he is a huge sci-fi comic nerd that wants cybernetics.

My Institute character is probably going to be a morally grey guy, who's life has taught him that the ends justify the means (probably had ties to the Shadow Government pre-war) and had that reinforced by the events of the game.....so while he has no moral problem with Synths, he regards the Gen-3s as a unnecessary risk and believes the dependence of the Institute on Coursers for their military needs is long term a recipe for disaster. So he will build an empire on surface, killing off the farmers and stealing their land and build his own personal stronghold below the surface to control it from.

I've found a way to thread that needle without actual betrayal of the Railroad, per se: if you show up to the Railroad hideout with X6-88, the Railroad shoots first. As such, you can turn what would have been a betrayal otherwise into a tactical misstep with bloody consequences.

I'd say that bringing a Courser to Railroad HQ is an act of betrayal......but its your game and if it works for you.

Civilization:

Coffee, check.

Toilet paper, check

Chocolate.... newp. These people are just like the wastelanders they despise, NOT civilized.

No chocolate, but they do have ice cream.

That was 60 years ago. everyone involved in making those decisions is dead.

The FEV program resulted in a cure. How many people died to make that cure? How many people could be saved by it? Kill 100 to save 1000? Seems reasonable to me.

They mostly seem to mind their own business. The Brotherhood takes direct control of the Commonwealth, taking over the farms and homesteads at gunpoint. All the Institute wants to do is cut itself off entirely.

I have seen no evidence to suggest that a Synth is any more self-aware than a Mr. Handy. The only difference is they LOOK human, so we can't help but empathize with them more.

Again, the FEV program resulted in a CURE. That's a major mitigating factor.

That's a personal issue between you and a dead man. It should have zero impact on your decisions regarding the Institute.

They helped you only so they would destroy the Institute. It's entirely reasonable for the Institute to protect itself from them.

I'm not sure what your complaint here is.

I am glad to see so many interesting replies to my post!

I would like to reply to at least some points:

1) Many replies are debating the synths:

In my view, there is no doubt that 3rd gen of synths are sentient, a new species of people. The game answers to this "dilemma" by quests involving synth characters:

- Even Nick Valentine, who is a 2nd generation based synth, is very much sentient, judging by his quest line and interactions. (not to say that he is widely accepted in DC)

- Curie's mrs handy/nurse AI is transfered into a synth body, but if you have her as a follower it behaves like a sentient person, not like a bot

- One of the most controversial moments for this synth/people debate is the revelation that the BoS paladin Danse is a synth. It really pays off to do this quest. I mean, Danse has fooled everyone, including you and himself. What better proof that synths are people? OK, we could argue for ever, because we should define what makes us people, sentient beings, and why a robot is not. But I want to refer to the game which shows us that some synths are like people or even better (caring, heroic, noble, emphatic, etc)

I think the game blurs the difference between pure AI and artificial beings, because robots such as Mr Handy shouldn't have likes or dislikes (but this is because of the follower system).

2) The Brotherhood of Steel (in Boston area)

- I was considering them as an ending game faction until I did the quest in which we find out that Danse is a synth.

- Elder Maxon's reaction to this news is the proof that the BoS are sadly run by a delusional character, obsessed with the idea that all synths are evil and must be destroyed. If you do the quest and have high charisma, you will see that he cannot see reason, even though Danse, now revealed to be a synth, was his most loyal and brave paladin, a role model for most in the BoS. Danse's loyalty goes even further, accepting to commit suicide, most like a samurai who lost his honour. Fortunately, you can save Danse, but this will not change Maxon's views. He sees this as even more a reason to destroy all synths.

3) Institute's superior technology

Indeed, the Institute has some technology that surpasses what the Enclave or BoS have.

- However, information from the Institute network is stolen by the SS and brought to the BoS.

- Some key scientists left the Institute (dr. Virgil, dr. Li), so their knowledge can be shared elsewhere

- If you consider how much technology the BoS has, it is hard to assume that the technological level of the Institute won't be reached by BoS scientists soon enough

- Probably the best tech the Institute has is teleportation, besides Gen-3 synths. But other than that, they are just a fancy vault.

- Somehow it is to early, and also a wrong time, for a faction to play god again. Here the BoS is right, but I don't like their brutal methods.

@Dementor:

If you play this game as a roleplay, like it is labeled, it assumes that somehow you connect with your in game character. So, in my view, it doesn't matter how long ago someone killed my wife and kidnapped my son. If you were the survivor from 111, for you it wouldn't matter. It is just bad blood. Let's not forget that many people from the Institute live much more than normal people, since they use implants and all kinds of technology to lengthen their lifespans. Also the board seemed to me that they would make the same decision now if their interests would benefit from it.

The purpose of the FEV in the Institute wasn't a cure, but the creation of radiation immune organs for Gen-3. The cure was developed by a scientist who went rogue, not as a result of the experiment. Plus the cure worked because Virgil's transformation was recent (if you delay it won't work the same), it is doubtful that it will work on other mutants, Virgil even has doubts if the serum will work at all.

It has everything to do with joining the Institute. Story wise it is mind blowing find out that you went through all this carnage and ordeal, only to find out that your son (who will refer to you as mother/father) was watching all the time, let you go through all this, including going face to face to his killer (who also killed his parent), when he could have just teleported you in at any time!

Story-wise it doesn't make any sense, only to show how cold is your son and the organization he is ruling.

The story could be just bad, or it is like this to show you that your son has the same morals like the murderer of his parent, since he is using this killer even now against his other biological parent. But since you bested his killer, he is happy to see you and to offer more dirty jobs, even though he has an army of Matrix like coursers to exterminate the other factions. Why does he ask you to kill your friends when he can send coursers? Why doesn't the game give you other options with him? Because he is evil, (at least Maxon can be convinced to spare Danse).

He offers you clean sheets and to be the boards puppet in exchange of killing your friends/allies.

P.S. I didn't mention: I sided with the Institute up to the point when he asked me to destroy the Railroad (I was quite happy with their story). Then I said, you know what? #@$! you, you did nothing for me, almost got me killed more times that I could count, and you ask me this? So I went with the Railroad. I didn't like the ending, but maybe that's the point, to leave you thinking.

So they pass the Turing Test: that's not a high bar. And it's worthwhile to note that several of those Syths have had human memories installed into them: Valentine has the stored mind of a pre-war detective, and Danse presumably had his childhood memories installed by Pinkerton or another Railroad agent. Once they undergo that process can we really take their actions and mannerisms as evidence of how Syths normally behave? And Curie brings up a whole nest of problems on her own: she grows past her programming while she's still a Mr. Handy. Further, there are ton of other robots that appear to have developed complex personalities above and beyond their original programming: Codsworth obviously... KLEO and Ironsides are other examples. Robots can even "fall in love" as evidenced by the schoolhouse in Diamond City. So what's so special about Synths then? Should ALL robots have the rights of human beings? Only SOME of them? Where do we draw the line? Is it OKAY for the "workers" at Greygarden to be slaves to the supervisors?

They could have easily chosen to make Codsworth a companion who doesn't care what you do: Dogmeat doesn't. But they chose to allow him not only to voice disapproval of your actions, but to actively REJECT you, turn against you, and attempt to kill you. You, his owner. And as noted above, there are plenty of non-companion robots who show exactly as much free will as any synth. The ONLY difference is that synths LOOK human, and that is NOT a valid basis for deciding what should and shot not have the rights of personhood.

Consider from his perspective: even if Danse had been 100% bainscrubbed by the Railroad all those years ago, and all his actions up until now had been genuine, a product of whatever human memories had been uploaded into him (and they have NO way of knowing this with any certainty), all the Institute would have to do is whisper in his ear "M7-97, factory rest code gamma epsilon theta (or whatever)" to turn him back into EXACTLY what he used to be, and at that point they could send him up to the Prydwyn with his armor stuffed with C4 and there would be NOTHING that could be done about it. Even if his software is complex enough to constitute personhood, you CANNOT be expected to place any kind of trust in something that could be turned against you with a few words. You can convince Maxon to allow Danse to live, that is MORE than reasonable; the condition of his exile, forcing him to stay away from the Prydwyn and other Brotherhood facilities, are totally reasonable: they have NO way of knowing whether or not Danse has been reset by the Institute, so when he approaches them, is it still Danse? Or is it M7-97 with orders to kill every man, woman and child?

Exile is 100% fair, and is actually taking a huge risk for Maxon.

After 200 years below ground, and no natural immunities to current surface virus's, simply walking through the Institute in never cleaned, blood and viscera spattered combat gear would virtually guarantee they'd all be dead within a month or two.

Tbh, so would the SS after leaving the Vault.

the Op is right th e insuitute is basicly the e,clave in white labcoats and even if you become director there is little you can change to alter their course to self destruction

they are so narcisitc and egocentric that they can not even recognize that their sybth have become sentient and pressume those synths must be malfunctioning

only put ogf curiosity i did the institute story line and i gave up on that it was pretty sickening

the BOS certainly are not saints but atleast you know what they stand ffor , nor do they exterminate whole settlements on a wimp