I dont think it will be the same speed as OB, they increased the level cap because its more fun to level plus in OB you can just keep jumping for 3 hours and level extremely fast it all depends on what skills your going to use.

Agreed. The quicker levelling worries me and could totally by Skyrims equivalent of Oblivions levelled enemies.

Personally I wish they'd just get rid of levels all together, and put all that stuff under the hood...

It would be much better, in my opinion, if you looked at the extra strong dragon and knew you were effed, instead of looking at its number and giving up. Visual representation instead of numrical. Make the stronger things look stronger, and mix it up a little with a little fluffy thing able to own some of the larger monsters. You don't look at the guy you're about to fight and know if you can win or not based on a number, you look at their muscles. They give off a confident aura with the way they look. That's the kinda thing I wish they'd work on.

You can't see the level of the dragon anyway. Your level just gives an indication of how good at things you are, and that can't be represented visually. Levels are a basic aspect of the game. To remove them is to make the game into an action game.

I remember saying put them under the hood, not to remove them. And obviously it can be represented visually, because us people here in the real world seem to get by somehow. Even when numbers are involved, its not in the way they have been represented in past rpgs. In track for instance, people look at the length of someone's personal best longjump, not their acrobatics number. They look at their fasted 100m run, not the number of their speed.

I may not see the level of the dragon. That is true. Hopefully I don't see the health bar either, and rather I see the thing I'm killing dieing infront of me rather than a bar slowly go down, and the beast not caring till suddenly it drops dead cause the bar hit zero. Rather I'd see the bar under the hood, and watch as the dragon start to struggle as it gets closer and closer to death's door.

But you can't see your speechcraft or smithing or sneak or restoration etc. etc. by looking at you. The only thing you can tell are the physical attributes. Putting them under the hood will still take away a lot of what the game is, to work on your character. In OB, fatigue didn't matter to me, because it's function was not easily recognisable, and the difference was not outwardly noticeable. Hiding skills and such will just make the game less involving and make it closer to an action game.

I disagree. I'd feel like I was connected to my character much more. I wouldn't know my sneek is a 53, so I would have to know my limits personally. I could feel myself getting better as through time and practice I could get closer to my targets easier.

You didn't even need to know your speechcraft level in past games, it did so little. I'd rather have it under the hoood, and then have different dialoge options pop up as you get better at talking with someone. You shouldn't have to look at a number to tell that you're friends with this person and that person over there doesn't really care for you. It should be visual. They should let you know through their actions.

I'm saying these things should be noticable. A number or a bar shouldn't be needed to represent things. The things should be obvious. Rather than a bar, I'd rather see my npc start to slow down, and huff and puff when the stamina bar is getting low. I'd rather see my metalwork improve as I become a better smith, rather than watch a number go up as I swing a hammer. Have some high quallity, okay quality, poor quality, and scrap metal come from my work, and the better you get the more often you make good stuff. The perks could be gained after working on metal your not used to, and you gain the perk that allows you to work with the high end metal finally when you create a half decent piece through the minigame or whatever, and with the perk you create average peices of that metal more often and once your level increases you make high end material more often.

Just because it hasn't be represented well in past games and has needed a number or a bar, doesn't mean I'm willing to settle for that for the rest of my gaming future. Eventually I hope for a game that has no bars or numbers. It just thrusts you into the world, and you can see and feel yourself getting better rather than having a number going up along side you so you can have that feeling. I for one believe the technology is there.

I make my character good or evil, not some fame/infamy number.

Well, I totally disagree, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. But fame/infamy doesn't determine how "evil" you are.

You're right, I forgot about that, and I did exaggerate the problem, but even if HTH reach is calculated from gorillas, weapon length still wouldn't make sense.

HTH has a reach of 0.5, daggers have a reach of 0.6, claymores, 1.3. If a 6' person has a 72" arm span, then: (72-6)/2 = 33" for the length of an arm (assuming 6" distance between shoulders). A claymore then has a ~7' reach total, including arm length. If you subtract the arm length, you end up with claymore length = 3.6' (rounded up). Using this scale, daggers are ~7 inches long, short swords are ~20", and longswords are ~33". You can switch around assumptions and numbers to make a particular weapon seem to be a reasonable length, but the ratios guarantee that other weapons will be off, usually by a wide margin. And that illustrates my point: bad balance.

Sorry if I'm derailing the thread.

I hope we will at our fastest level up like this:

From 1 to 10, 3 hours of using skills.
From 10 to 20, 4 hours of using skills.
From 20 to 30, 5 hours of using skills.
etc.

In Oblivion, i got level 40 in 250+ hours of gameplay. For me the leveling was too fast at the beginning of the game because I increased pretty much my major skills only, because at that point I was interested of them.
Later in the same game and character I bored to (for example) fight with a sword so I changed to blunt which wasn't one of my major skills, so eventually when this was happening, my leveling started to slow down dramatically while leveling is even naturally slower on higher levels.
For me, level scale of Skyrim sounds very good. I really have no complaints, but I can still understand others' complaints. It's all about the play style I'm saying.

Sorry about bad English.

PS. I got level 30 in FNV in 70 hours with that XP based system.

It's impossible to tell "how fast you level up" and compare it to something else. Perhaps if you use apre-set class you could get a decent gauge. Even then you can't, cause you could just use you non primary skills.

You could level ultra fast with--

armor skill
alchemy
weapon skill
alteration
resto
conjuration

Magic spec


Just spam spells while you run around killing stuff. Spam pick up any alchemey stuff as you go. Or you could spend 100+ hours and never actually level at all by using none of those skills at all.

So i find his intial comment and this thread having zero factual relevence to me.

Seems to me from what I have heard so far in previews and interviews that you would level up fast if you used less skills repeatedly...and slower if you spread your skill use all over the place...

That sums it up in my head.

My own style is to spread myself over many different skills....as a consequence of this my character will probably be one who levels up fairly slowly...much slower than someone who goes for a 'pure' character such a fighter or mage for example.