Wait, wait, wait...You quote me and claim I ignored sources when I said that it won't really be faster and that it MIGHT be a LITTLE slower than Oblivion or Morrowind for all we know. I'm the one that said it isn't literally faster leveling, it won't be much different than it has already been. Mainly I was saying it won't be as fast as Oblivion's because you don't have things like athletics and acrobatics to abuse. Why can't people read the entire explanation instead of skimming over it and saying "Nope, your wrong lolololol." So annoying to be shouted down as if I didn't already say these things in the paragraph.

Just ... Do you somehow equate reaching level 50 with having an easier time playing the game than if the level cap was at 20? It makes no sense at all.

According to PC Gamer, you level up in Skyrim around TWICE as quickly in Oblivion. That sounds way too fast for me.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/18/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-preview/2/

Reread my message, I did edit right after to make what I was saying more clear, please I have not ever engaged in the tactics you describe, we both agree that SR will be awesome I am not shouting down anyone.

Oblivion's "level cap" was 25. It has already been said by Todd multiple times and supposedly Pete said the same on twitter some time, that Skyrim's is 50. Please read my paragraph again and see the disclaimer for "level cap". The "level cap" is where the content peaks out and where you are meant to stop playing by a game standpoint. Of course your free to keep playing after the "level cap" since this is TES and it's your choice.



My bad, just that you said I was ignoring articles when I mentioned that it will be similar (just not exactly that way) to Oblivion and Morrowind's speed and I have two people saying that my paragraph based on the first info ever released about Skyrim is false, I'm a little on edge.

Straight up, I don't believe you.

The point is if OB was designed around a 25 level range and SR is designed around 1-50 and you both reach the "cap" in a similar amount of time your progression rate is about the same. You will now level up much faster, but what matter is the progression rate how your levels compare to the game world and it is the same, which is too fast like previous games(for me).

But I don't care, I expected this, its what most players want. I will get a mod.

And I agree Sleign it is sad when people can not discuss things rationally.

We get it!

Casual gaming ruined TES.

Please stop!

and it still doesn't really add wieght to the point that some how leveling when be slower than OB when todd literally said that they are speeding it up, I saw your explenation of the higher functioning of the system in which (unless you are secretly a dev) is based on information that is assumption since we haven't seen exactly how it works and the game is still in development. which again, none of which changes todd literally saying that they felt leveling was not fast enough for SK and they were making it faster. you can't just sophistic that statement to warp it some how into -todd secretly means it will level slower, never mind what he actually said-

I am not meaning to take the opposite side of every arguement but one of my pet peeves is when people take their interpretations and direct them as fact.

Youre sentence is illogic:
I said the leveling will be faster but in comparison to Oblivion's, it will probably take longer than Morrowind and Oblivion.

Maybe what you are trying to say is that low levelling will be faster, but overall leveling will be slower, because high levels will take more time.
Then i would agree with you, i am still fearfull of what i explained in my previous post.
As i am fearfull this leveliing system will lock us up in professions defined by 2 skills, as quest will be delivered upon those 2 skills.
I fear in the end the no profission is a way to hide that once the game has reached a certain dynamic you will effectively have a profission that will not allow you develop others skills in a viable way, thus diminishing the variability of kind of character you can develop. (for example locking a lot of dungeon your level and then ending on a low level game because this skill you want to develop is take a hell of game time, making your enter a lot of places).

I might get it wrong, but in OB and MW it was scaled for lvl 1-25(-ish) and those lvls went away quite fast. Now they have the game scaled from 1-50. I would asume that the leveling slowed somewhat down after every lvl so your reach lvl 50 around the same time you reach lvl 25-30(-ish) without grinding. If you grind in OB you can reach lvl 50 and have all attributes(except Personallity and Luck) at 100 in 10-15 hours.

It make all sense as in Morrowind (not expansiongame was dead at lvl 20 25) you could rollsteam anything.
In Oblivion the game was dead at lvl 25 because after that it wasn t a combat anymore it was like 1 hit = 1 hp on the monster monster = 500 hp -> 500 hits.
1 time fun
2 times fun
3 times WTF
4 time this is [censored]
5 time this is really [censored]
6 time... ok next game...

Challenge doesn t mean trying to make me an idiot and pass hours doing the same crap by putting more of the same boredoom on my dictionary.

If mods didn t exist, i wouldn t even be looking at skyrim.

Funny, don't die-hard Morrowind fans also complain about high quality stuff not being available right away? That it was tucked in leveled lists which prevented you from getting them until later.

Also, level 20 in Oblivion would be like level 40 in Skyrim, so Daedric wouldn't start appearing until then, which doesn't change anything. Though I believe it's been said that there's more hand-placed loot this time anyway, so...

Because, you could scream through Oblivion at a leveling pace with athletics and acrobatics, that's the part that is slower now that we don't have those two skills, the average leveling speed is lower than before. I'm going on an average leveling speed, which depending on what you chose for major skills, your leveling could be really slow or really fast. With major skills it was a very wide range of leveling speed. Now it's settled to more of a set leveling speed though you can slow it down if you decide you want to level many skills at once. You can't tell me that leveling in Skyrim will be faster than the whole athletics and acrobatics bull, thus it has the POTENTIAL to be slower. That's what I don't get with some people, there were key words showing it as not a certainty that it would be slower. I said CHANCES are it will be slower, not WILL be slower. Kthnx... The whole point of the argument I gave was to say that the leveling in actuality isn't any faster than Oblivion, it is just sped up to make up for having double the "level cap" to make up for. So if leveling in Skyrim is twice as fast as in Oblivion, in actuality it's the same speed. Are you getting me? I threw in the possibility of it being a little slower than Oblivion and Morrowind and then I get jumped on.

As I said, it's a fact it isn't any faster than in Oblivion in actuality but my opinion is that it will end up being a little slower than in Oblivion and Morrowind.

Scaling VS Max lvl, doesnt mean squat.

You can have a game where leveling 1-25 take month, and another 1-50 takes minutes.

The relation of time/difficulty to reach "final" or " nominal" level (level your intended to finish the main quest) is whats really matters.
That effectively why we see a constant in TES title modding :
Slow down and dificult the leveling and balance the game around the new "speed" to the pleasure can last more, or maybe the game just don t feel cheesy.
Thats a constant weak point in fable too, so people say.

And sadly, it seems dev aren t smart enought to have seen this pattern, if we take the spurces we are are accurate.
There s also the point that reviewers do not tend to play much, so in the end it may not th the true, OTOH we know initial leveling is rocketing fast which is BAD.

I feel that level progression will be largely meaningless in terms of game length. It's very doubtful they're going to make a good that encourages players to 'grind out' levels [a single player at least] in the current culture. It's possible sure, but very doubtful. Level progression is simply a carrot used to keep the player interested and feeling involved in their character's progression.

Not really, they leveled very slow and even slower if you didnt pick them and their co related specialties. So no, you couldn't "scream" through Oblivion's level system with acrobatics and athletic.

lol, that would be an extemely specific demographic for die hard MW fans. sounds more like a generalization of people who like hand placed loot and equating them into people who just want to exploit them. (ignoring the fact that you would certainly die trying to get deadric armor in MW right off the bat.)

So painfully antagonistic, yet so shockingly accurate... Though I think you used 8 too few flamethrower smileys.

One of my friends is the "Skill/Training Grinder, exploiter" type, and I just can't stand watching him play games for the most part. It's like "Okay, I'm leaving Goodsprings at level30, where's the tesla armor".

What's odd, is he praises things like Final Fantasy 12 for it's great pacing and level curve progression... I really just can't say anything to convince him that he's essentially ruining the game by turning the difficulty curve into a Difficulty bridge to svcktown.

Well that is ironic. My sentence was illogical but yours says "You are sentence is illogic" :whistling:



No, I meant it will technically be faster than Oblivion's, you will gain levels faster than you did in Oblivion BUT you have to remember that there are also twice the game scope levels in Skyrim than there were in Oblivion. Unless leveling is twice as fast in Skyrim, the leveling will be slower than in Oblivion and Morrowind. Like I said, the part about the leveling being slower than in Oblivion and Morrowind is just my opinion, as was clear in my original post but the fact that leveling won't actually be any faster than it was in Oblivion is a fact as stated by Todd and other sources.

and how do you know the average leveling speed of SK, how is it you are able to confirm things (are you a dev?) because you are spouting information that you claim are facts when the only people who would know this are people from bgs. so unless your secretly a dev, your facts, are assumptions. and I can't just deffer to your opinion based on information that is based on assumptions that directly contradict information we have recieved from todd's own lips.

EDIT: I am not trying to say that there is no way that you are right, I am just making the point that you know no more than every one else so you can't just declare your perceptions of teh released information as fact and then gain say any one else who disagrees.

Your opinion, which, by the way is, of someone that never even saw the game, is agaisnt people, which, by the way, have actually played the game for hours.

Now tell me, in who should we believe? What can possibly make you see skyrim concepts is full of possibles flaws ? that the DEV actually don t learn over time cause they don t care that much at feedback ?

Seriously - have you actually played the game? Athletics was that way in Morrowind, but in Oblivion, even as a spec major, it STILL increases slowly. You can't "scream through Oblivion" with athletics at all, and the only way you can do it with acrobatics is to make it a spec major (which makes athletics, at most, a non-spec major, and thus that much slower) AND with jumping essentially non-stop and taking as much fall damage as possible.

I really don't know where you're getting this from. I've played dozens of characters in Oblivion and I am VERY familiar with all the skills and the rates at which they increase, and can say with some authority that you're simply, categorically, wrong.


I thought to address this the last time you mentioned it. How on Earth can you continue to argue that the game will provide more flexibility when the fact is that, concerning leveling, by your own claims, there are only two options - level at Beth's rate or cripple your character by spreading your skills out. That's not even two choices - it's Hobson's Choice. How does that make the game more flexible?


Why not? Even setting aside the fact that athletics and acrobatics don't increase as quickly as you keep claiming, why couldn't leveling in Skyrim be faster? Particularly since they've already said that it will be faster, and that without any specific information regarding how much faster?


If people continue to respond to your posts, each making the same assumption (that you are presenting as fact what is actually only your opinion), then you might - at least might - consider the possibility that the problem is not that a number of different people all come to the same conclusion for no reason at all, but that they all come to the same conclusion for the same reason - because that is how you really do present the things you say.


No - that is quite certainly not a "fact." It's something that might be logically concluded, but that doesn't make it a "fact."


Yes - that is your opinion. And that's all it is.

Nickpicking on my 3rd language mistake very smart. Merely a lack of attetion and you got it don t you ?



Where the hell did you get that info ? Is has been clealy stated that the game will be more or less the same as Oblivion...with more dungeon, and probably less "usable" open space area due to he nature of the landscape.
OK, you may have due to this (empty open areas arent that interesting) an increase in combat time, so gametime. But as they sayd "roughtly as Oblivion", i wouldn t expect much.

Nevermind, your completely reading it wrong. I was talking about the average leveling speed of Oblivion, not Skyrim. I put the average leveling speed against what Skyrim's might be. Once again, the whole argument of Skyrim's leveling speed against Oblivion's average speed was only to talk about the opinion that it might be slower than Oblivion's and Morrowind's in actuality, it was NEVER stated as fact. How did it blend in with the facts I stated. The fact I stated was, Skyrim's leveling will not be faster than Oblivion's in actuality. That's the only fact I ever stated as a fact and that fact was backed up by Todd himself. Can someone really not state and opinion, which was clearly outlined as an opinion by words like "chance" and "possibly" without being called a liar? I mean seriously, people can't put opinions out there without saying "Your not a dev, shut up". *Sigh*, I'm getting off for the forums for a few hours before the main point of my post gets misinterpreted grossly again and I get shouted down. Just going to walk away now before I get into a flame war and get banned because people aren't reading it right.



Omg, how did this turn into terrain? Oblivion's level is 25, Skyrim's is 50, it's double. It's a fact, you can't say otherwise I don't care what you say, that's from the words of the same dev multiple times... Like I said, walking away....