i counter that your examples are mostly not of the leveling system, but how they didnt balance the world for it.

its obvious smithing is broken...in the fact that you can get to 100 with a iron schematic alone. it shoudl require moer...and older schematics should give no skill ups (sad to say it but think wow professions)

the mudcrab is no different then armor in other TES games...and is still an issue. the thraet of the enemy (maybe its level relation to you) should determine how fast certain skills increase vs them.

recasting muffle is no different then jumping everywhere in morrowind. and yes is also silly

i think that th actual leveling system itself...is interesting, fluid, and could be a great thing. howver, its marred by ill thought out aspects of the game that interact with this system poorly. several of which you listed.

would i be sad for them to revert back? yes and no...i dont like jumping everywhere...wears out my thumb

as i look thru the other posts, its painfully obvious people cant sperate the leveling system itself from the obvious balance issuse taht interact with it.

leveling too fast...for example, is easily tweakable, and doesnt saying anything against this system mechanically.

I'm not a huge fan of the perk system, and I think the majority of perks are things that should have been automatic after a certain level of a skill.

Other than that, I don't really care one way or the other.

Not really. The perk system has achieved nothing more than causing more problems than it set out to solve. They should've had skill tagging (similar to create-a-class) where non-tagged skills would not level you up; now everything you do will level you. They're either unreasonably fast (for instance, my mage who uses all mage skill trees has higher lockpicking than a few of his mage trees) or unreasonably slow (enchanting or blacksmith ).

The perk system gives a strong illusion of choice, but many of them have to be taken out of necessity.

A side note that's slightly related, I think...there are two entire skill sets that are entirely useless (speech: for money making in a game that showers you with coin; lockpicking: for cracking locks that can be unlocked without a SINGLE PERK in lockpicking). Blacksmithing is quite shallow - it's inclusion as an entire skill is a bit of a joke.

The new system is just as ripe for exploit as the ones in earlier TES games, so on that score I say it's a wash.

My only real gripe about the new system at this point is that I don't feel my character has accomplished much when she levels. I guess gaining a 20% benefit in some skill through a perk has about the same effect as increasing some attribute, but I don't feel it during play. So, yeah, i prefer the old method where even if it ended up functionally the same, for a brief moment I got a thrill adding two or three points to something that I'm not getting here.

I love the new leveling system. I think it fleshes out ones character perfectly if one takes care to be true to their character type instead of trying to be a jack of all trades. The progress factor for sticking to a set amount of skills is also very rewarding while punishing those who try to do too much. Just like in real life there is only so much a person can do before they get overwhelmed and effects the whole negatively. The new leveling in SKYRIM reminds me alot of the OBLIVION mod OSCURO'S OBLIVION OVERHAUL where it was all about character type and focused strengths according to ones class. So i guess that also means in a way classes are still in SKYRIM its just now the player is what makes the class.

I really do love the new leveling system. Its intuitive, and fun, do whatever you want and you level.

I personally wish it was slower, speech and alchemy are the right speed, but smithing is not.

Your post makes ZERO sense. So because you use a skill alot it should NOT level up as fast as a skill you dont use as much?
That is not how the real world works. The more you use something in the real world the better you get at it. That is how skyrim works. How is that a bad thing?

Why should someone that uses lock picking a lot not level up faster than someone that barely tries to pick locks but just dumps skill points into it?

Its just like if you use magic for example instead of swords, why shouldnt your magic level up faster??

And you are controlling what skills you are leveling by USING THEM. Its pointless to let you level skills you are not using.

For example, if you are a warrior and never use magic, why should you be able to level up your magic just buy dumping in skill points? You should have to use magic to level it.
I think it makes way more sense.

I love it, but I wouldn't mind it all moving a little bit slower.

its a hell of a lot better than the old one where you had to plan out exactly what skills to level to max out your character

It's not perfect, but I like it. I think it's better than Oblivion's system. I never liked classes/majors/minors. I know a lot of people prefer that kind of set up, but I'd just rather not have other people tell me how to play. To me it makes sense that if you use a skill you get better at it, and that I have the freedom to use any skill I want any time I want. Just like in that other game. What was it? Oh, yeah. Real life.

Leveling how I want works fine for me. :shrug:

I find it bland and uninteresting but in the grand scheme of the game it doesn't actually matter.

Hopefully industrious modders will come up with a better system.

Not a fan.

1. The big problem with athletics was it leveled on its own without input from the player, well now pretty much everything does. What are you going to do, not try to open the chest? That is like saying well walk everywhere in oblivion. Now though it not only levels the skill it levels you. just the skill did not bother me, leveling me is a bit of a pain.

2. Far too many skills are effectively worthless without perks which just makes them pointless grind skills if you don't have room to perk them.

3. A lot of skills level far too fast and far too easy, like I am leveling them faster than I want to fast.

Level scaling system even worse then Oblivion!
Sure enemies dont get full glass at level 20, but what I noticed in Skyrim is that there health and damage scaled with the player even though they have the same weapons.
For example, I was fighting Forsworn and killing them in one hit at level 15. As soon as I hit level 21 they all of a sudden were unstoppable and killing me like mad.

This new system is much deeper than what we had before. In Oblivion its so easy to become a jack of all trades, i start out as a warrior character and still use magic effectively. All the major choices are made in the beginning of the game, then after a while youre able to do everything anyway. I always ended up with a warrior mage character that was also good with a bow. It did not feel special to me.

. In Skyrim, i tried that same approach, but then had to make some definitive choices due to the perk system that helped flesh out my character into a specific playstyle. All this WITHOUT forcing a "class" on me. Sure, i wanted to be a battle mage, but then i had to chose whether to upgrade my destruction or increase my attack. Then i had to decide if i wanted to increase my block and use a shield or use spell/sword and upgrade destruction and 1-handed excursively.

So all in all, i naturally chose my class based on how i played. The perk system forces you to make decisions about how you prefer to play. I'm still not locked into a class though. If i decide i want to start using destruction, i can, but ill have to sacrifice growing and playing as a pure warrior. i HAVE to put in work as a mage if i want to become good at magic. Thats how it should be. not just some arbitrary choice to start placing skill points into magic.

To me thats much deeper than placing skill points where ever i want.

I like it. I can play however I wish and not get slapped in the face for it 20-30 levels later.

I do see where this system can really annoy the micro-managers. It just annoys them to no end that the game handles any task related to their character's development without their consent.

I've always thought the concept of "levels" was a throwback. A relic of older, infinitely more cluttered and constrained rpg systems. A legacy gaming mechanic which did not really serve a valid purpose in a game where attributes and skills were increased via direct action. (shut up with your level scaling retorts) I hate this word, but the console kiddies seem to love it, so if it gets the point across: Arbitrary.

As long as a levelling system and a skill system exist in the same game, they will always clash. Unfortunately, in the eyes of most, the notion of doing away with a levelling system is about an alien a concept as can be in an rpg. For that reason, i do not ever expect to see real progress in the way rpg systems develop.

I agree with this, and some spells seem to have little to no affect on leveling the skill they fall under. Candlelight, Clairvoyance are a couple to name. But creating iron daggers over and over makes you a smithy god in no time. I hate my mage is forced to open locks with picks, when there should be a spell for that. Ahem!

It annoys them because they have to actually PLAY the role they want to take instead of just lazily placing skill points. Theyre mad because how they play decides how they gimp their character and they cant plan it out on a spread sheet. You cant plan out being a battle mage on a spread sheet, you have to practice what you preach. Make REAL choices on defense, offense, magic, strategy...not have a "class" tell you what to do