i liked the oblivion system better. Skyim just had a quessing game

Both are out of place in a skill based RPG. Once you learn the minigame, that's it. Master lock at level 5? No problem!

I always say this, but Morrowind's system was better. If your character was good at picking locks, you got it. If not, you broke countless picks and still didn't get in.

As it is now, lockpicking is based solely on how good you as a player are. Not on whether your burly Axe wielding Orc has the fine motor skills needed to pick a lock.

Neither, Morrowinds was best.

The latter two games rely too much on player skill instead of character skill and that is not RPG.

Firstly, I absolutely loathe minigames. I voted neither. Like Merari stated, it should be based on the character skill and not the skill of the player. The unlock spell is an example of the way it should be. That is based on the skill of the character.

I just hope in the next game they bring back the spells to unlock locks and bring in a way to be able to smash them open

Actually I do like it more than the two previous systems I have tried. It needs an auto pick option though for people that would rather use character skill.

Well with a mod, smashing them is an option but I respect that you cant use mods if your on a console. Smashing locks should of been included at the start though imo.

Regarding morrowinds system, I haven't actually used it yet (now going through morrowind on my pc) otherwise I would of added it as an option. But have now changed the neither option to morrowind and added a separate neither option, so check your votes.

The frustration I had with OB was when I would play a Khajiit with high Lock-Picking skills and still lose lock-picks opening fairly easy locks. The Khajiit PC wouldn't do that, but my bad eye/hand reflexes made it happen. Defeats the purpose of role-playing in my mind.

Another thing that Skyrim could have added is lock jams after breaking four of five picks. Lock jammed, well then you are not getting in period. Again, this would encourage someone to actually select some of those Lock-Picking perks.

I also miss the other options of opening a lock, either spell or lock bash. Again lock bashing would add the option of jamming the lock. Seriously why is my level 45 warrior a master at lock-picking again?

Oblivion's - Morrowind's - Skyrim's.

And unlock spells are needed back.

I don't think it matters. They're all decent enough and serve their purpose.

Neither system, Oblivion or Skyrim's is good. But I like Skyrim better. I hope in TES VI that there is a reason to pick any lockpicking perks. Also as many have pointed out, it's way too easy to find lockpicks. They're everywhere. Finding lockpicks from looting some bandit I can see, finding them on a table in a Dwemer ruin... not so much.

They're all fine. i like Skyrim's more because its more fun. and the auto attempt in Oblivion is stupid. kinda like cheating. if it was implanted in skyrim people would blame the casuals.

Actually, the auto-attempt was reliant solely on skill and therefore an RPG-mechanic. Unlike the minigame.

Personally I'm of the opinion no game should have mingames whatsoever, especially if they are integral to playing the game.

I have never seen any single one be an annoyance at best to genuine argh-argh-argh. In the latter category for instance lies the fishing minigame from Fable 1, which I swear I played as a full-fledged game on the Atari in the early 80's.

I have no idea why gamemakers feel the need to force 1980's Atari game ports on us but it needs to stop*.

*Actually, the one and only forgivable instance of a minigame I've seen was in the xbox game Second Sight. It was a direct port of an ancient arcade game, something like Space Invaders. It was playable on Arcade machines found throughout the game and it was completely and totally optional in that you were never forced to play to advance the actual game and playing it provided no in-game advantage at all. It was just a bit of fun.

That is a tolerable minigame.

IMO this post ^ wins the debate. Well played Merari, well played.

Seems the distinction between liking the current system and liking something more like Morrowinds is falling between those that like more action orientated games verses those that like pure RPG's.

I always preferred the pure RPG myself. Nothing wrong with the other I suppose, but Action-RPG is all TES has been geared towards lately and I would like so see some true RPG options come back.

Until they bring back a system where Character Skills/Condition/Attributes/Equipment is what matters to a successful lock pick, then it will be broken. As it stands now, Character skill has little to no bearing on a successful lock pick and it is all on the Player Skill.

One thing that would really help with that would be the return of bashing locks and open lock spells.

The more paths there are to achieving the same goal, the more choices you have in character building.

One is only one. With three options you could choose to use all three, leave one out, or use only one. Simple as that, five distinct possible playstyles emerge.

For all those saying it's just guesswork, the tumblers will actually make a different sound when you probe in the 'sweet spot'. Obviously it's trickier to locate the spot by ear the higher level the lock is (if your skill is low or you don't use perks.) but it can be done without just blindly guessing.

I liked Oblivion's the most, it had a nice combination of mechanics. There was less luck involved. In Skyrim it's just too easy to pick any lock in the game with how plentiful picks are coupled with the fact that you can open any lock if you have the time to waste trying.

Fallout did it better than either. You can't pick a lock above your skill level. You can't even try to. That's how it should be, give us a reason to specialize in lockpicking.

I HATED Oblivion's system. At least until I trained my skill up high enough & had enough lockpicks to continually hit "Auto-Attempt" and have it open eventually, which really isn't a lot of fun. I'm OK with Morrowind's system of it depending on the character's skill level, but I really prefer Skyrim's system overall - no auto-attempt to ruin immersion, the Master level locks are more difficult than the Adept etc., and I find it more manageable as a player than Oblivon's maddening system. I use mods for adding Bash Lock for my Warriors and Open Lock Spell for my mages (wish Skyrim hadn't removed that option), so I'm happy with it regardless of character.

I couldn't disagree more. I like both systems but quite frankly any assertion that a dice rolling system is more RPG-orientated is facetious at best.

Character skill still governs how effective you are at opening locks. I personally won't even bother with a lock if it's going to take me anywhere between 5-10 lockpicks to open it. And to do that, you need to be good (character skill - perks) at lockpicking.

No, I don't like it. It's one of the few things about Oblivion / Skyrim I don't like. It's the one skill where the character skill in that particular skill means absolutely nothing.

I don't know what the solution is, because I don't want to go back to anything having to do with dice rolls like Morrowind had, and I sure don't want to put skill level restrictions on attempts like Fallout 3 (one of the best things about Elder Scrolls is that there are no restrictions to being able to attempt things, no matter how good or bad you are at something), but I do believe there needs to be a better system in place so that you can't so easily unlock Master locks with 0 perks and a novice level Lockpicking skill.

Oblivion by a mile. Choice of two. Auto attempt by skill for old school role players, manual game for modern ARPG fans, as already stated (and refuted? Die roll altered by skill isn't RPG? Really?)

But I will respond to this.

While I am in favor of additional means of getting past locks (I.E.: spells, lock bashing - though I understand why they were left out, and it's obviously because of the perks that go into Lockpicking, which spells and bashing would 100% bypass that investment), I hate hate hate hate hate the "different classes" argument to picking locks.

Lockpicking is not a "stealth" skill. In fact, the beauty of Elder Scrolls games is that there aren't limiting, arbitrary class designations regardless. A warrior can pick a lock just as easily as a thief can cast a healing spell, and that's okay, because that's the entire point of Elder Scrolls games. Someone doesn't need to be stealth to pick locks, they just need to want to be able to get into places that are closed off. That can be anyone.

I hate hate hate hate hate that argument, because it's rather simple, if your mage wants to get into locked places, they can pick locks. That doesn't make them stealthy. It doesn't make them a thief. It makes them someone who wants to pick locks.

I hate hate hate any argument that talks about what a certain class should be. Getting away from arbitrary labels that limit the player, telling them what they should or shouldn't be, is exactly why I became an Elder Scrolls fan in the first place. Last thing I want is for this game to go the way of perpetuating pre-defined "warrior", "mage", "thief" class labels that are the bane of what true RP'ing really is. I already hate that the skills have been divided up under "Warrior", "Mage", and "Thief" labels in the skills screen. Luckily those divisions mean absolutely nothing.

I doubt it is all on player skill, at least not until the player figures out the gimmick for picking the lock. Do knoweldgeable players break no more picks on master locks than they do on novice locks? I'm skeptical, but admittedly ignorant, since I haven't figured out the gimmick yet.

It should be noted that it is the character's skill rating, not the character's skill, that has "little to no bearing on a successful lock pick." Character skill has everything to do with picking the lock. In game elements such as lock picking, character skill is largely represented by player skill. The player doing something with his own skill (e.g., solving a virtual-lock puzzle in a computer game) means that the character does something with his (e.g., opening a real lock as a real-life lock-picker would).

Which is not RPG.

In a role playing game, I am playing a role. I am not suposed to be good at picking a lock, my character should have that skill (or not.)

If player skill is the deciding factor in success, then there is no playing a role, because it is not the character that does it, its you. Sure, I can imagine that its my characters prowess that opened the lock when it really wasnt, but that is LARP-ing, not RPG.