Title say's it all.

I actually prefer the "No side is right" in many of the quests.

I think they went a little overboard with it, but overall I do enjoy darker stories.

Yes. A big improvement from Oblivion's black & white story-arcs.

I wish they grayed up the Thalmor a bit rather than having them being evil mustache twirling villains.

Ambiguity is where art resides. Take away ambiguity in character or plot and you do not have much in the way of narrative art.

I think video games, including the Elder Scrolls series, would benefit from more ambiguity. As it is, most of them are childishly one-dimensional.

ok ill admit thats an interesting mental image, an Thalmor agent twirling his mustache.

i do like that fact that like you said no side is right

Absolutely not. In fact, it is one of the major, if not the major, flaw of the entire game. Because it essentially results in not mattering what you do. It doesn't give any merit nor consequence to the character's actions.

That is not good, no matter how you look at it. It's a horrid fundamental flaw that is the core of what really makes an RPG.

How so? I can name plenty of examples that cause massive debates of philosophy and ideology, Stormcloaks VS Imperials, Nords VS Forsworn, plenty.

Agreed.

Though this can be accomplished with a deep out-of-game research and interpretation. http://theskyrimblog.ning.com/group/lore/forum/topics/altmer-part-1-creation-the-aldmer-and-the-old-ways

That's a very negative outlook. You could say, "No matter what you do, you end up losing in a way" is more realistic.

I read that before, it's unfortunate that it wasn't really touched upon in game. I would have liked the Thalmor to be a grey third party faction for the CW.

No, it's a realistic outlook as it it exactly the way the game is.

There is consequences to your actions though, steal from someone, they send thugs. Kill a friend, they send assassins. Do a quest in a way, have people take vengeance. Dawnguard and Dragonborn added to this, having some of the quests have far-reaching consequences.

I think if they go down that route in TESVI then we will see a lot more ''this faction is better than this faction'' and ''im better than you'' type of threads on these boards.

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I liked the Thalmor at the beginning, they were very shady and interesting faction. but that whole destroying the world is stupid. i hope they change that in the writing.

I like the moral ambiguity but I think the game would have benefited from a little more black and white in the right places. (The portrayal of the Thalmor wasn't a good one IMO. They need to be "greyed up")

Well, I'd prefer much darker and brighter shades of grey at least, to compliment the more neutral tones.

That's just a small fraction of the big picture. There are very few quests that are set out with actual consequence. Hitting some one to draw aggression is not a good example of consequence. That is just basic game mechanics.

There is nothing you do that makes you feel like you have accomplished anything. The world doesn't react to your actions. Without getting into spoilers... The CW is a major questline. Due to being so ambiguously vague, what actually comes form that? ... nothing.

Indeed. Beth's "vision" on them disturbs me. Mainly because it portrays the Altmer as a generalized evil race to those who are new to the series. It worries me.

Yes please!

One downside of the "moral ambiguity" thing was that it created a fairly static world. You help people, the world stays the same. You mass-murder half a town, the world stays the same. Whether you side with the Empire or the Stormcloaks, the world should change when the war ends.

I don't think the world not changing has much to do with moral ambiguity, but rather design choice or possibly time constraints.

Exactly, and there should be dialog and even quests that are opportune to the player per their moral choices. There should be multiple arcs and reletives per those chosen arcs to be associated with what you have done. There is none. The dialog is going through the motions... aimlessly.

It's just dialog exhaustion. That's not an RPG it's just an electronic book.

I'm fine with the moral ambiguity - it allows freedom of choice and reduces the feel of the game being scripted which I love. Actually, I wish they had been more even in making either choosing either side not advantage or disadvantage the game statistics. Sometimes choosing the "morally right" side, makes for a worse outcome for the player - and I don't like this because it makes it feel as though the game is forcing you into particular choices. There needs to be another storyline option in House of Horrors and there needs to be a Destroy the Thieves guild story line option (other than just not doing it).

I don't think they should make the story outcome effectively the same regardless of the choices you make. For example, it seems to have made little difference choosing Stormcloaks over Imperials and that is unsatisfying.

I do like there being characters who are evil (so no problem if the Thalmor are painted as evil) and some "good". Stupid game choices should have negative consequences though but this shouldn't be dictated by "good" or "evil".

Any examples for the ambiguous quest's in Skyrim?

For "In my time of need" one of the sides has to be lying. I don't know if a blind choice is considered morally ambiguous, but I have heard people say they like it because the answer isn't clear.

For quests that don't have a positive way to solve I wish I could permanently decline or side against instead of just ignoring them. I avoid reading Boethiah's Proving or going anywhere near the shrine. If I didn't play the game before hand though I wouldn't have known it would put a quest into my journal I couldn't remove. Same with Molag Bal's quest in Markarth. Of course I would want to help investigate an abandoned house, but I don't want to torture someone.

I think there was too little moral ambiguity when it came to the Silver-hand. I mean they were just like generic bandits whether you were a part of the Companions or not.

Me too! Quite an refreshing change compared to the politically correct Oblivion.

A lot of that is surely due to the Great War, and the banning of Talos. You only really hear the Imperial and Nord side of the war.