I sure do..
I'm sorry, I'm having a breakdown..

Yes,there are alot of things in oblivion that were better.

Yep and repairing weapons, armor or paying a smith to fix it for you. Why they taken that out you got me>

...Over not being able to haggle prices...?

To be honest, in any game, that is, perhaps the one skill I never use. Besides, that ability was replaced with perks and enchantments and the occasional buff here and there that gives you a better price at market.

God no. Increasing disposition, adjusting a slider, getting a refused message, adjusting it further down, getting a refused message, adjusting it further down, finally getting a sale.

Not fun.

Nah.
Didn't even notice it was gone. Never used it.

I think because at the time of census farming, the general mood was no one liked carrying around repair hammers, and complaining that it wasn't fun.
Granted, that's true...It just became a reason to throw money at a blacksmith. Here, fix my sword crafted from the uterus of a dead goddess. Get to it. Have it done in less than a second. Much obliged.
That's my opinion of it anyway. I get that people liked it because "Immersion", but I find my immersion remains perfectly intact...so I guess it's a personal problem.

Yes, I miss everything the games used to do but do no longer as every feature removed makes it a poorer RPG.

I'd like to see both haggling and repair in the game, but not the way it was handled in Oblivion. It wouldn't require a hell of a lot of thought to make a system that was both elegant and efficient. For instance, with smithing repairs, why in the name of all that's holy would a hammer vanish just because you used it? You could have tools that would be used for each step of craftsmanship, which you'd have to upgrade the better your skills became, but with only a small chance of breakage or ruination through excessive use. You want to repair or create a Legendary sword? You'd best have the tools capable of that.

Quests could exist to acquire the more powerful tools and materials, and I would be happy.

Plus, "What!? 500 septims? You're taking the food out of my children's mouths! That's not worth more than 400, tops." I don't see the need for any "mini-game", just straight haggling. Offer / counter-offer. And this is where a Reputation could be useful, and the influence of the factions you belong to, your standing in the community, etc.

Not that difficult.

As implemented by Bethesda? it was horrible. As redone by Oblivion mods? Yes, a bit.

What I hate is the linkage between persuasive speechcraft and barter speechcraft in Skyrim.

Yes I miss bartering and disposition. And long
------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>
spears

The developers here produced the Mcdonald's of RPG's; Skyrim is delicious and filling very quickly, but shortly after ingesting it you're bloated and gassy. Repairing armor and weapons as well as bartering added a nice touch to the game world. It made you think about each sword strike and each impact you took in deeper terms than just how much health you had left. Bartering just fit the game world...no M.S.R.P...yet haha.

I'm not saying that both armor repair and bartering couldn't be done better (think fallout jury-rigging perk) but not having them at all or relegated to permanent skill tree perks makes Skyrim feel more like a melee adventure than a fleshed out RPG with regards to the OP.

Sort of, because it made sense.
It doesn't make sense that every time I go shopping my speech skill increases. If that had worked in real life I would be Martin Luther King and a financial genius by now... and so would almost everyone else.
With bartering, my straightforward warrior character could go shopping as much as he wants and still not get any better at something that's outside of his personality, and even more important - something that's outside of his personality would not add to him leveling up. (Since every skill increase in Skyrim adds to your level progress).

(edited for spelling)

Not really in Oblivion, but better done in Morrowind, yes.


Bartering and repairing do not make "proper" RPG's. Skyrim is a proper RPG without those elements.

And I'm not sure how "immersive" or "realistic" it was anyway, to have to repeatedly (while wandering around a dungeon) "fix" your Leather Shield by whacking it with a pile of hammers you carried around in your pack.

Not really. It didn't do much.

No it didn't. It just made you carry around repair hammers and extra weapons.

Uhm personally Skyrim falls under Open world and story driven for me and features like repairing are under the "simulation" aspect and falls under open world again which I think Skyrim should've had. Also I think role playing is what Skyrim falls a bit short off.. There's really extremeties in RPG and Open world. When mixed in both they make an Elder Scrolls game it just about balance I guess..

Youre responding to something I did not say. Its very easy to disagree with people if first you tell them what they said and then you tell them why what you said doesnt work.
I said that every feature removed makes it a poorer RPG.
Did I say anything about bartering and repairing making it a 'proper RPG' and its exclusion less so?
I did not.
In future, respond to what I said please if youre gonna quote me.
Thank you.

Each removed feature makes a poorer RPG experience for the simple fact that there are less roles to play. I cant very well be a savvy businessman/ diplomat in Skyrim because there is no barter and speech is a joke. Speech doesnt affect disposition anymore, you see. Its a thing the game doesnt do anymore, its removed.
Making it a poorer RPG.

I immediately stop reading when I see words like this in a post...
...None of us know a damn thing about game design...Don't embarass yourself...Just because you may have tweaked something on the Construction Kit doesn't mean you know how that goes down...


If you think about what actually goes into repairing broken blades...it usually means reforging metal, or replacing parts entirely. How does a local blacksmith fix daedric armor?
"Sorry m'lord, I don't have the necessary arcane know-how to understand this piece. You might try praying to a shrine for the Daedra to repair it maybe."

For better or for worse, depending who you are, they probably didn't want to make something as rudimentary as...Armor Repair...a very complex system. Believe me, I could TELL you how to make it complex as hell. It's armor repair, a basic function. Going to the Smithy is not an "experience".

I think what he means is your statement about less features = less RPG...Or something like that. One of those points you constantly harp on about.

Well, I suppose they could bang out any dents, and replace worn straps & underpadding...... (although, that's a good question. What do the daedra use for strap & buckle materials? And what cloth under-armors haven't rotted away on that Dwemer armor that's been in a ruin for several hundred years? )

I miss Ken Rolston.

It's magical dwemer magic goddamit!

This has suddenly turned into a thread about Armor and Weapon repair.

I restate my original point. Haggling was turned into perks under the Speech tree.