Ok, I have seen several threads just today where people don't like the game because it was too easy, or like the game but wish it was harder. In those threads, I keep seeing people say "Its your fault the game is too easy. You built a strong character. If you make a gimp it wont be so easy" This is the most foolish attitude I can imagine, and we have had it since before Skyrim with Bethesda titles.

You should NEED to build a strong character to beat the game on any difficulty past normal. You should NEED to make use of every item and skill you can, after all, its you and a follower vs 100's, 1000's of enemies. We have easy difficulty for someone who wants just the story or to run around in a tuxedo, bunny ears and high heels the whole time.

For the rest of us who want hard+, it should require building a character who can out fight, out think, or use charisma to convince people not to fight him, or others to fight for him. Perhaps a high int char should be able to build/modify a powerful robot guardian. It should require resource management, and careful thought into stats/perks. It should require thinking before running in headfirst. You SHOULD lose 3 or 4 times to certain enemies before figuring out how to kill them. If you don't put effort in, you should never see the ending movie. This is the only scene you should see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

Saying "role play a 1 end, 1 str, 1 agil no armor nothing but pipe weapon blind dumb and deaf gimp" to get a challenge is just stupid. There should have been 2 modes: casual mode (what the game is now) and normal mode where you actually have to put in a little effort to win, and NOT by gimping yourself.

Anyway, mods will fix a lot of it, and Bethesda will always make their games easy for the masses. Telling people who want a challenge to shoot themselves in the foot and then tie their arms behind their back to get it however, is stupid and ignorant. Some of us enjoy an old fashioned game where we need to put a little effort in to achieve victory.

I just don't like that the only difference between easy and survival is that the enemies are just more of bullet sponges on survival, I wish they were more intelligent as well, instead its just an equally stupid NPC that takes 3 more hits to kill.

Than again it is probibly just a coding issue that they just walk off the edge of buildings or randomly fly to space like deathclaw do and die on re-entry

Bethesda has always been poor at designing higher difficulty levels.

Also, what "hard" is, is different for every player - depending on their ability to number-crunch game systems, their manual dexterity, their skill with different gameplay styles, etc. No matter how "hard" a game is made, people will show up scoffing at how terribly easy it is.

(Additionally, balancing a game to require perfect strategy/min-maxing/etc can be pretty difficult even for companies that are good at it. Particularly when the game is open-world.)

...heck, that doesn't even get in to the difference between what each person feels is proper "challenge". Some people think having to die a bunch of times, beating your head against an encounter over and over until they figure out the Exact Perfect Way, is "fun". Others just find that frustrating, and prefer other styles of difficulty.

But, yeah - that's the great thing about mods. People can tweak to their heart's content, customizing it to their preferences. (It's nice how the big difficulty mods like FWE/etc, have further adjustments you can make within the mod to tailor it more specifically.)

Not that I'm overly concerned with political correctness, but I see your liberal use of the word gimp getting you some moderation

I agree hard means different things to different people. However, I think 99.99% of people would agree Dark Souls or Halo on Hard is much harder then Fallout 4 on Survival. Even the people who beat the 2 games I mentioned without effort took practice to do it, FO4 difficulty is a joke.

I said it because several people literally recommend creating a weak or broken person, 1 in all physical stats. Its not meant to make fun of someone who is diabled for whatever reason.

So go play Darksouls.

Some of us just want to play a normal person just trying to get along in a harsh environment and terrible situation.

I, for one, am not interested in playing some superhero there to reek havoc and rule over my conquests.

I agree that you need to use your skills to their advantage, I don't see the point in creating the sort of person that has no weaknesses.

I'm on my 3rd runthrough and I always start with all 4's and build my character from there.

If others want to play that sort of ultra-punishing, superhero type of character, more power to them, but, I just don't think a game like F4 is really for them.

Well play old fashioned games then? Beth writes adventure RPGs where you can choose to play the whole game in a bowler hat and long johns for the hell of it. If you want to play a super powered character and expect the game to scale to that they it's probably not going to work for you. Go play DOTA 2 or Counterstrike where your opponents are human and ever a hyped up 12 year old is better than the AI in the game.

Beth write for the masses and thinks that most players aren't interested in that sort of challenge. In my case they are completely right. I distribute the points to cover my likely perks so I don't need to add points to that later. I often find myself with several perks unused because I just don't need to level an attribute at that point. My current character was only using the starting 10 mm, but found a combat rifle and is having too much fun with the bayonet on it.

I require this bunny outfit for Curie! Now!

Uh, that's what different difficulty levels are supposed to be for. You want to play in long johns then play easy. Want a challenge play higher difficulties. The problem is the higher difficulties of FO4 aren't much different than the lower.

Nope.. Just like all the Fallout games, you should be able to get through the game with any kind of character. Nobody is gimiping a character when they make an all charismatic / intelligent based character. They are using their imagination to build a character that doesn't rely on combat. Bethesda gives you the tools to create any type of character.. to have your own type of fun. If all you see is a combat game and can only build super god characters, that is your own lack of imagination.

If you're an experienced (RPG)gamer there aren't many games that are that hard to beat. I'm playing Wasteland 2 alongside with Fallout 4 and Wasteland 2 is said to be a hard game. I don't find it hard, some fights area bit challenging and if I don't pay attention I will have to spend an awful lot of time looking for stuff that I should know where they are if I had paid attention. This is mostly because I have a lot of experience from other games that tells me what should be done and so on.

You can make games harder to beat by making enemies tougher, but it doesn't make the game hard.

This is NOT halo or darksouls. If it was I wouldn't have bought it. You want a harder game? Go buy a harder game. Some of us are very happy with this one the way it is.

The problem with powerbuilds is that if the game requires very specific build to play through, then that is the build -everyone- will use.

I'm part of your 99.99%. Dark Souls is DEFINITELY harder than Fallout 4 on Survival. It's not even a competition. But you know what? I LIKE that Fallout 4 isn't that hard. I loved Dark Souls 2 (DS1... not so much) but I don't need that difficulty in every game I play.

In any case, I don't think Bethesda was going for "Dark Souls" when it came to difficulty. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Say nerf.

I like a charisma/intelligence build myself.

I did a runthrough that didn't last very long concentrating on strength and endurance as a melee character. I did not enjoy it. Sorry, but I need more than just combat and constant death for me to enjoy myself. While I love my stealth, sniping and explosions, I don't want it to be my only option.

People telling the OP to play different games

There are difficulty settings in the game. Ya'll want an easy ride? Play easy. Want a challenge? Play survival.

Bethesda made this game an FPS. It doesn't really matter if you want to make a scientist, because the mechanics and world won't reflect that. You don't get the option to use that characters strengths in dialogue besides charisma. There is no pacifist character in this game.

Fallout 1 and 2? Sure your character could be that silver tongue or the genius instead of a musclehead or tank. New Vegas and Fallout 3 also had it to a lesser extent. That went out the window when they designed the game the way they did for Fallout 4.

This.

I can agree on this.

Sooner or later (sooner) you will find yourself in a fight.

So y'all have had no success playing a character that isn't just a violence-based character that simply kills everything in his/her wake and is all about destruction?

Funny, I guess I haven't been playing F4. I've run through twice so far and, sure, in order to defend myself I sometimes need to use lethal force, but, for me it's just as easy to avoid an encounter and do other things that aren't nearly so braindead as killing everything in sight.

Fixed that for you.

Difficulty in Fallout 4 is always going to be a problem since it is an action game, the only way to achieve difficulty against a player whose reflexes, anticipation and ability to handle the combat controls constantly improves with challenge would be to end up with raiders made out of titanium that fart mini-nukes...no matter how much you buff the enemies you will always find someone who beat the game walking backwards, naked and only equipped with a glowing fungus and a teddy bear...

Next playthrough for me will be more centered around diplomacy and avoiding conflicts rather than gunning anyone and everything down.

It's an interesting thing. I have to agree that the game is definitely centered on conflict, but, as I said, I actually have more fun avoiding conflict when I need to. An example would be Olivia Station. I actually managed to sneak all the way down and get my goal and get out without having to kill anybody except radroaches.

let me tell you. I had to leave dogmeat behind and, thank goodness for stealth boys.

BTW - did you know that, apparently, mole-rats can see you even when you're using a stealth boy? I had no idea!

This.

I play on 'normal' because that's, er, normal.

I do have a high CHA, INT, LUCK build because that's, er, interesting.