Why is it so difficult for you to understand that a lot of people don't like being told exactly where to go or to have things they've never even encountered appear as a marker?


Agreed. Even simple fetch quests / small errands were fun in Morrowind, because you had to actually think about where to go.

This.

Why bother looking, asking questions, or paying attention when you can follow your magical GPS right to where you need to go.

I am hoping that there is a way to nuke the quest compass dead, though I fear without either it, or actual proper quest design and dialog, it may be impossible to complete some quests.

I would far rather have to ask around to find a quest NPC than follow the yellow brick road.

My answer to the poll is somewhere between yes and no.

I wish that there was a game mechanic for information gathering. The Oblivion style quest compass is the "perk" for having acquired enough info about a quest. But how does one acquire info? Lets take an example of a local bandit group threatening a settlement's commerce. The local headman has asked you to put a stop to them. You're told only that they're hiding somewhere close by.

- Explore: The players who prefer to be out and about exploring may have already found the likeliest location. These players feel validated and satisfied because what they enjoy doing helped them find the quest.
- Talk to the locals: If you can speechcraft your way into the secrets of 5-10 locals, you earn the quest compass perk for that quest. Those who enjoy the silver-tongued characters now feel like the skill has an important benefit.
- Bribe the locals: Basically swap speechcraft for mercantile and a handful of coins.

The benefits of this system are as follows:
- Makes NPCs (all NPCs) that much more critical to the game experience
- Increases the importance (and therefore satisfaction in using) Speechcraft and/or Mercantile.
- Rewards thorough exploration
- Takes nothing away from anybody.

i say yes, but to an extent.

for example, if they tell me to go to a town and find a guy, don't point me straight to his house. let me ask around and find information for myself. only give me the marker when my directions are very specific. this was accomplished in a few quests in oblivion(mostly thieves guild) but most of the time you were pointed exactly where to go.

with the new clairvoyance spell, i don't way to be pointed through a dungeon. either allow me to find my own way, or use my handy dandy book o' spells. being pointed towards a dungeon, sure. but once i enter, put me on my own.

have characters tell me where to look, in what direction to go, and what landmarks i should find if the place i need to go is not know exactly. if they know exactly where i should go, then ill accept a marker.

there SHOULD be a marker, but to an extent.

Quest markers and place markers were the unfortunate "fix" to the new problem of adding voiced dialogue. When they added voice overs, the had to cut back the amount of actual communication you had with an NPC. Paying voice actors for additional lines, plus restrictions on file and disk sizes, pretty much ruled out an NPC telling you,
"Well, I last saw them about a mile to the west. We were attacked on the road there next to two large boulders. The bandits attacked us and then fled to the north. I seem to recall an old cave up that way when I was a child. Maybe you could start there."

Instead we got... "We were attacked by bandits, find them please." Then a marker popped up showing you exactly where to go.

I like voiced over NPCs, but the old way was MUCH better. I would even give up voiced NPCs again if they would bring back the old system of giving directions instead. Ideally, the developers would just buckle down and give us the voiced directions and dump the markers altogether.

For those people that don't want to actually have to be bothered searching for the cave, they could have a "casual" player button people could check in the options menu if they want to simply press a button and be warped to the next location without walking there or looking for anything. The game should be developed for the people that actually want a challenge and want to play the game. Cheat modes can always make it easier for the other people.... If a game is made with cheat mode already on, its much more difficult to make it harder.

well the vote is overwhelmingly against it completely or make it toggleable. lets hope that bethesda is watching this thread and realizes that most people, at least on these forums, are intelligent enough to not have someone hold their hand all the time and dont want a babysitter.

I think by now though they wouldn't be able to change it either way. They are probably in the testing phase right now where the only changes are going to be for bugs or balance.

I'd rather have a marker on the map that put you roughly in the right area....or decent directions
I dont really want anything on my compass

It was really their solution to having quest NPCs with AI that move around, maybe for that situation you could ask people and they would point you in the right direction, no need for masses of extra dialogue they only have to say, "go north" etc...or just point

I hate quest markers but i would be alright with this idea. I would much much prefer the NPCs to give detailed directions, and only if youve already been there may there be a marker present. I would prefer no marker at all and just verbal directions. But the problem is when the game is designed specifically around the use of quest markers(fallout 3 for instance) You get LITERALLY zero directional dialogue throughout the entire game, and that just killllsss the exploration/adventure aspect of it all for me. I actually disliked fallout 3 and that was one of the main reasons. Example would be, you listen to a hollotape...there is brief mention of vault #xxxx....You get a quest pop up that says find this vault....the vault magically appears on your map. There is literally no thought whatsoever to the game in that department.



Not sure why you think fast travel is a necessity...who cares if you forgot something and need to go back and get it....then you walk back...take a carriage...use an intervention scroll scroll...simple. Why should the game make everything retardedly easy for the player. All that is doing is just leading to more boring games with much less thought required and much less depth. Again fallout 3 is what i keep getting referred to by people who love fast travel....i also hated that in fallout 3...but honestly i can see why people use it in that game...the landscape all looks exactly the same, theres not as much content in between main areas, there isnt really much that would make you want to walk in between areas. Morrowind on the otherhand i rarely even used the interventions and crap because i just enjoyed going everywhere on foot...the landscape was great....there were always secret little caves tucked away in the side of mountains for the explorers to find.

No clue why people think FT is a necessity...it just shifts the game to a more go to point A do this point B do this...that along with quest markers magically popping up telling you exactly where to go.....its just making the games much more linear and taking away the feeling of exploration/adventure/other things.




Like really what would you rather do....

be given a task...you have no clue where the destination is so you have to walk around town asking people....those people then refer you to some shady character that hangs out in this inn...you talk to this argonian who says hes travelled that way before and then gives you directions using visible landmarks like large stone pillars and specific rivers to guide you on your way, telling you that if you reach fort blah blah youve gone too far. So you walk through the wilderness keeping an eye out for landmarks, you get a greater sense of accomplishment after finding each one by scowering the land infront of you as you go.

orrr have someone say go to this place youve never heard of....the place magically appears on your map, you have an arrow telling you exactly where to go...you fast travel close...you follow arrow...youre there.

I think if there is anything on the compass aside from the cardinal directions alone....it would be terrible.....would HATE to have quest arrows showing me the way....points of interest being shown to me....enemies being shown to me...anything like that

my opinion of course.

Why should the game cater to people who dont want to play it. Ive seen people say they hate morrowinds quests because you have to read....really?....People say they want fast travel because they dont like walking the same road more than once...People want quest markers because they dont want to spend the time to wander around following directions....i hate that the games are now being designed for people who have little time to play them...making everything quick and easy and require less and less thought each time. I dont have loads of free time to put into them anymore but i still enjoy them 1000% more when they arent doing crap for me and just making everything quicker. Maybe the rush through completionist playstyle is just much more popular and im of the minority. who knows.

Just imo the hand holding is getting almost ridiculous. Id cite more fallout 3 as the hand holding was almost overwhelming in it.

Besides that im psyched for skyrim to come out. Just hope its not dissapointing.

Here's to hoping that they're watching and kind enough to let those that want to forego the green arrow to have that option.

yes the marker is good if you dont like it dont use it

...ok, just let me not see it and I won't use it. If it is stuck on the HUD, it won't be avoidable and as they say, "What is seen cannot be unseen.".

10000000% agree

well GPS everywhere is kinda of a huge ass bug of epic proportions, I mean sure I can live with "I will mark it for u on the map..." but not the

"Oh mark!! he is over there in the market, just around the corner, I will input his GPS chip number into ur satellite up-link" WTF :facepalm:

It has nothing to do with intelligence as I could easily find places on my own, but most people who want it just don't have the time to play this game for long periods at once. Stop being an elitist [censored].

They should just make it toggle-able instead of removing it completely. This way it caters to both worlds, and everybody's happy.

I would put forth that the elitist [censored]s are those who think the game should be modified so they can play it while crying about not having the time.

Here's some revolutionary logic: If you don't have time to play the game, then perhaps the right answer is to not play the game. If you don't have time to watch the Super Bowl, do you petition the NFL to shorten the game just for you?

Yeah, elitist... :rolleyes:

I support not having them at first, but after being lost for about 4 hours I start to get a little frustrated. Of course if you get really bored you can always be sociable and ask the forum for help?

I'm surprised they use them actually, without them they could sell the game as a 500 hour main quest? :thumbsup:

They are really nasty

Doesn't matter to me. Only ever looked at the compass if I couldn't find what I was looking for.

I have time to play the game, just not enough to wander around looking for [censored] all the time and not actually getting stuff done.

And unlike you and a lot of other people I want quest markers for those days. If you have the time to actively play, fine, turn them off. If you don't and just want to do something quick, turn them on. This is a much better solution than catering to one of the two opposites.

Can I add an extra zero?

Should be toggable, in the same way as they have difficulty levels in most games? Sometimes I'm enjoying a game so much I just want the frustration to feel more rewarding and realistic, other times I will put a game down unless I can make quick progress and get on with the story. Depends what mood I'm in, therefore should be toggable.

Bethesda seems to have left that option out, sorry.



Actually, that's the solution that waters the game down like whiskey in a cheap bar trying to make it suitable for everyone including those who claim they can't play it because of time constraints, thus shouldn't play it.

EDIT: Plus, I agree that covering all bases would be prefereable to catering to either extreme. But based on Oblivion, they seem to have already chosen to cater to the "I like my Nirn-Boy 300 GPS" extreme. Directions are rare, good directions virtually nonexistent, but you'll get those Nirn-Boy 300 GPS coordinates 99.9% of the time.

This is a more important question than fast travel. At least with fast travel it's optional to the player, but with markers you can't really avoid them?

people that say they don't have time to play the game are just nuts, cause its single player and u can save when ever u want, so how the H do u NOT have time to play the frigging game????!! u don't have weekends, u work 24/7? are u a slave in a coal mine somewhere on a distant planet??? if not then u have time.

and as I said saving and loading and the single player-y nature of the game should allow you all the time in the world, hell u can play it for 10 minutes then quick save exit and try again later

and don't u dare argue with this logic, JUST DON'T, cause it will be madness.