Actually the game does have that, they had to cut it back becuase the NPCs ended up going wild and stealing from players houses, and other NPCs, eventually causing NPCs to eaither all be killed, or thrown in jail.

Imagine walking into whiterun for the first time and seeing half of everyone dead, and the rest of the town empty, you walk into the Dragonsreach dungeon only to find the other half of the town in there.

That would actually be the moment where I would go: "Okay this game's going to be good..."

Seriously, that would totally look like some kind of scripted, well-written event. Of course, once every city looked like that, the jig would be up. But with dragons flying around adding to the chaos, maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing?

I remember one of the things about the AI in Oblivion was that the Marksman trainer could be dead if you look too late in the game (the trainer can be killed while wandering around and hunting).

I think it's easy enough to have the game respawn important NPCs that the player hasn't come into contact with yet.

that is a load of bull, I use a 100% pure mage character without the use of potion spam, or exploits, just fine.

Becuase the choice you make in the Pitt is meaningless becuase either way nothignh changes, its a purely cosmetic change without any real consequences, whereas the other choies have more real consequcnes.

Most of the people in Skyrim are just that, people, normal people, with normal lives. they ARENT supposed to be some uber-defined characters, becuase they are just normal people, and normal people aren't all super defined.

The character that are defined are people in guilds, like bryonlf, or Cicero, or Aela and the rest of the companions.

Imagine going into your home and finding all the epic gear you have found in your adventures stolen....... and imagine never being able to find the guy who did it.

the problem is, true radiant AI just makes the game feel broken and cheap.

Isn't that what high-level locks and lethal traps are for? Or how about a fortress you can buy instead of just a boring house? With a monster-filled dungeon that thieves have to make their way through in order to steal anything worthwhile? You can't tell me 90% of players wouldn't buy that.

This would be a good reason for the Lock spell from Morrowind to come back. I don't think there were any spells that let us set magical traps or any skill either.

NPCs have the ability to pick any lock, and can even take things out of locked chests. they have magical pwoers.

I keep getting one shotted whenever a higher level foe gets close to me. I am forced to use a companion, therefore rune spells and the better area effect spells are out of the question, double casting Ironflesh changes nothing, ward spells are a [censored] pain to use, magicka is a big problem, and also the good spells are only sold when you have 75 in that skill and reaching that skill level takes a long time if you don't just go and power train.

We could argue about that. Also many things in F3 don't have sufficient consequences, but they already explained that to you in the Fallout forums. If you're talking outside the gameplay then I have to tell you: you're missing the point of choices like the one in the Pitt. It's about which do you think will have a more positive consequence, which is the lesser evil. It's supposed to make you think, in F3 core game you have Eden's plan which is clearly intended as the bad choice and you have the lawful dumb, idiotic Lyons, not exactly a hard decision.

Yes, many of those characters show signs of depth but most of them get such little dialogue that it's simply impossible for them to be properly deep.

Makes it feel like an MMO if not done properly. Which is how it ended up in Skyrim.

I beat up the same woman twice from companions radiant quests. And then they let me into their super secret ring or epic power.
And I killed the same dock-worker's wife from Riften in a row from dark brotherhood radiant quests...

So take those magic powers away. DUH.

You aren't using your alteration flesh spells, or restoration wards, wisely then. Also, equilibrium.

The choce in the PItt doesn't make you think, becuase its the same choice either way. Saying that the Pitt makes you think, is like saying that Inception's ending makes you think, it does't.

Things that are purposfully vauge and have no right answer only make you "think" becuase you are thinking about an imaginary. They are the thinking equivalent of thinking about unicorns, yes you can do it, but it leads nowhere beacuse it isn't real. Its a fake choice with a equally fake consequence, that is only "deep" becuase the "choise" exists soley in your head, and not in the game world itself.

"properly" deep, in what way?

You mean like New Vegas were they gush thier entire life story at you and then ask you to fix thier lives for them ebcuase they are so broken they can;t do it thsmevles?

I would rather have what we have now then that frankly.

Gearmaster- Then we get back to the point about engine/time/budget constraints, and it all comes full circle.

This discussion is silly.

Well, obviously that would be for future games, now wouldn't it? And for any game engine that doesn't let you take away from NPCs the awesome power to steal anything they want, I have to question how advanced it actually is.

How should I use them? The highest I have is Ironflesh, Ward drains my magicka like crazy so I don't even bother. I double cast Ironflesh and higher level bandits one shot me like it's nothing. The only way I can deal with them is by having a companion to occupy them and stagger them with double casting fire bolt. And Equilibrium is [censored] stupid, and is pretty much suicide.

The [censored] are you talking about? Yes, I'm thinking about the imaginary, but that's the whole point of video games (especially Skyrim and F3), if you want actual meaningful hard choices with realistic consequences that can be seen then join the army or get into politics or something along the lines of that.

What we have now is the NPCs trying to have their characters fleshed out in two lines because Beth blew all the budget on obligatory big names and a needlessly epic and big soundtrack. How about this: a middle ground between NV long character history spouting and the shallow, rushed character history spouting that has been plaguing Beth games recently and ruining their otherwise good ideas.

Then get ebonyflesh...... tolfdir starts selling it at skill level 65, and use mage armor perks. If you havent gotten to skill level 65 yet, and your ifghting high levle bandits, you have done something wrong.

The amount of health taken by equilibrium can be easily countered by using restoration spells which costs less magicka to cast then you gain from using equilibirum. So ypu make an overall gain in magicka.
Meaningful choices in video games come from things like the ending of Fallout 3, do you pruify the water, or poison it killing everyone in the wasteland eventually. Choices mean nothing unless the consequences of those choices is diffrent from one another.

-The diffrence between grey and grey is nothing, both are grey, the choice is meaningless becuase there is no diffrence between the two, becuase it is the SAME choice either way.
-The diffrence between red and blue is a lot, and actually means something, becuase the chocies are actually diffrent, and have REAL, DIFFERENT, consquences.
I really dont see the need for longer backstories. People like Rune, and Saphire, tell thier stories exactly as they should be.

Making up these longer backstories for characters only makes the world feel artifical becuase apparently everyone and thier grandmother has had some super deep complex past or something. That isn't the way the real-world is, most peopel's backstories are pretty much the same, and dont need more then a line or two of "yeah I grew up on a farm, got tired of it, and so I left to become an adventurer"

At first I really didn't use alteration spells because there didn't seem to be a point and many times there still isn't. High level foes, which are a very common occurence from lvl20 onward, still kill me in one hit, the only chance I get is spamming potions and using the stagger effect of double casting destruction spells.

It's not the same choice, it's the shade of gray that makes it different. The slaves in the Pitt are ready to hurt Marie in order to find the cure, they promise that they'll get [censored] straight, but when you return people are all wondering how Ashur could even handle people and how things are a lot less orderly without him around. Therefore Wernher Pitt might become a slavery free place and they might even find the cure eventually, but it is heavily alluded to that they will never become an empire, like they could have under Ashur. And actually these are not from my imagination, these are stuff you can figure out by listening to the dialogue. Of course ending slides would be better because you could see the clear difference between these things.

Not everyone, but I think wanting a fleshed out backstory and personality for major characters and companions is only fair. Which is better: companions giving you quests and commenting on the storyline and the choices you make or only there as meatshields and to fus ro da them off high places for [censored] and giggles? The Master, Richardson, Autumn, James, Ashur, and even Ulfric to mention a good character in Skyrim, they all explained stuff about themselves and this helped with immersion and taking the storyline and the game more seriously.

Right so, you didnt use the form of magic that is designed to bolster your defenses, beause you didnt see the need to bolster your defences as a mage.............

But the thing is, as New vegas proved, ending slides dont change that, if anything, the ending slides of New Vegas made the feeling of "every choice in the same" even worse becuase you actually got to see every endings, and how every ending was summaerized as "the wasteland still svcks just as much as it did when the game irst started, but now, its a type of crap caused by a diffrent leader".

and there is no diffrence between the endings in the Pitt.
1. Ashur stays in power, people are still salves, he promises to free them but never might
2. Wherner gets in power, still works everyone like slaves, claims things will get better in the fututre becuase of the cure, even though it might not
either way the people are still essentialy slaves, with the same uncertain fututre of being really free, the only diffrence is the name of who leads them. It's an illusionary choice that results in zero change from when you first arrived.

What is there to really know about Esbern, or Delphine, or Angeir? not much The first two have been hunted by the thalmor for the past 30 years, and have been in hiding, and Angier has lived his entire life on top of a mountain training in the way of the voice. they dont need anythign beyon d that. why do they need anything eyond that when that is thier story?

Also, I HATE it when companions give quests, it was one of the worst parts of New Vegas. It makes all the characters seem like down-and-out, slacked jawed, morons who need someone to fix thier lives for them becuase they are to weak to do it themselves. I didn't respect Boone, or Cass, or veronica after thier quests in New vegas, if anything, thier quests made me hate them becuase of how petty thier problems were, and how whiney they were over it.

This is what every companion character in NEw Vegas felt like after thieer quest was done
https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lti1j6eb9E1qdjfkx.png

Ikari Shinji, and 15 year kid, who hates life and is filled with teen angst.

Not that I didn't feel the need, it's that I found it to be completely useless, it's severely underpowered compared to actual heavy or light armor.

You're wrong, things are different, you just refuse to see it. Just the difference between how Lanius does things and how Caesar does things is huge. Yes, everything still svcks, but svcks in a different way and depending on your interpretation and your views they might not even svck as bad as at the beginning. Having a good guy faction who sets things right and everybody lives happily ever after is totally unrealistic. A real life Lyons would eventually use the water to bully the Capital Wasteland into total submission, not spread it evenly and be all hippy. I know I'm not gonna change your opinion, neither you will mine, but consider the things I've just said.

I actually agree with you on the overabundance of angsty bs in NV. The characters you mentioned are especially annoying in that regard, but they still had a personality, they obviously had an effect on you and me, they made us hate them. Did Lydia have the same effect on you? Probably not. At least she didn't have any effect on me. When I shout her off high places I don't feel anything, I just get a good laugh out of it, that's all. Having a [censored] and annoying character is one thing. Having little to no character to speak of is a completely another thing and that is something that can't be allowed especially with a character that's following you around.
And Esbern and Delphine were actually good characters, the main problem with them was how little time they were given in the game, this is my main point, how can you even get to like a character if they become like the rest of the filler NPCs the moment they actually started to get interesting? So yeah the characters that have depth are not given enough spotlight, again because Beth blew all the money on big voice actors and on the soundtrack - no disrespect for the soundtrack of course.

I dunno, at the higher levels you can get some pretty significant armor ratings and damage reduction %'s.

Not really, Ebonyflesh, and Dragonhide are both powerful spells. And its magic, your supposed to have a conjurable meat shield or something, if your taking hits, your doing it wrong.

This is a game about super mtuants, giant tesla powered armor, mini-nuke launchers, and giant death laser canons in space. Since when was realism part of Fallout?

and no, a real life Lyon's wouldn't eventally go all dark side and bully people with the water, thats just a baseless assumption.

I would rather have a character that shuts up, and does what I say, then a character who is so full of angst and BS that I cant stand to be around them for more then 5 minutes.

When you have the choice between two companion systems
1. That makes you not want to use any of them ebcuase of annoying personality
2. One that has characters with no peronsality, but ou can actually stand to be around them, and they can do their job in the game.
I will ALWAYS take number 2. In a game, a gameplay mechanic being useable, is more improtant then a tacked on and unessessary backstory for a NPC.

Also I dont really see how Esbern becomes like the other filler NPCs, he and Delphine both give you quests relating to the blades. I really dont know what you expected them to do or say beyond what they did, I would like to know however.

I thought that the song was pretty cute. I liked the singers voice.

I do think that the message at the end was interesting. We all know that Bethesda has some really talented and creative people in their arsenal. Very often it's hard to implement certain ideas during the span of game development due to time constraints or creative differences. Also, certain ideas just aren't possible to achieve yet with current console technology holding them back. I can see a lot being done with the next generation consoles though.

True Radiant AI is one of those ideas that is cool on paper, but apparently falls apart when tested.

You're confusing scientific realism with realism of characters. The major characters and the depiction of human conflict are supposed to be realistic. If you don't get that, you don't get the point of the Fallout franchise, the point even Bethesda tried to communicate in F3 and like 3 of its DLCs.
Also, yes, a real life Lyons would turn out to be a bully. In fact he already should have been one, turning white knight all of a sudden is not only a pathetic excuse to introduce a shallow white knight faction but also totally unrealistic given the state of the CW and his desperate situation.

Not gonna address your point about companions, just know that you have the option of basically ignoring all their bs, that's why they implemented the companion wheel.
What I wanted from Esbern and Delphine? Well, let's see...
1. Having the option to speak about lore with them. It would have been nice to know which orifice they pulled the dragonhunting idiocy out and why they suddenly realized that's important history.
2. Having an option to talk about their times in hiding, the Great War, a lot more about the Thalmor, etc.
3. Having the option to tell them to kill Paarthurnax for themselves.
4. Having the option to sell them out to the Thalmor and see their reactions.
5. Having the option to summon Odahviing and order him to kill them. Again seeing their reactions would have been priceless.
I could continue, but you get the picture.

Not everything in the world is grey though, many times, there are black and white situation, and in cases like Hitler, or the Encalve who are essentially Hitler, a plot having such a black/white view isn't unrealistic. Trying to make everything in the world grey, now THATS in unrealistic. Hell, Fallout 1 and two had tons of black/white morality in it, in fact, ONLY New vegas was grey.

Right, becuase after having to march across the battered, and ruined, wasteland that was America, and seeing how [censored] the world is after living most of his life inside a bunker shut away, and being told lies, like most of the rest of the Brotherhood have, about how everything in the world is inferor to them, and actually seeing for the first time how much people suffer, and how much he could do to help the people, him actually helping the people is so unrealistic? I guess Veronica is unrealistic also? she is essentially the East Coast BoS filtered into one person.

1. The blades being Dragonhunters from akavir is something that has been in the lore since Morrowind. As for why it is important, because Dragons are coming back? Did you miss the MQ?
2. What's there to tell? they hid, Delphine took the job of an in keeper, and Esbern fled into the Ratway. also you can ask them about the thalmor, its part of Delphine's dialog options during the MQ. You learn enough about the Great War from every other NPc, and several books, them telling you anything would just be redundant.
3. Consdering that they CAN'T kill Parth for themselves, thats kinda impossible, and being able to tell them that is unrealsitic
4. You cant kill off a faction like the blades, becuase it ruins the plot of tuture games. Stop thinking in only the immediate and look at the long term
5. *ditto*

the pciture I am getting is that you didnt htink much about the things you want the blades to do becuase they are totally urnealsitic, or already told to you 50 times already.

Damn, you two need a fishy stick to calm down http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/have_93115f_436105.jpg

I advise sharing it.

This is like one of those arguments that has already run out of gas, but is only being fueled now by the ego's of the two opponents who just so desperately want to BE RIGHT!!!

Ah, the internet is a beautiful place.