Through 100 speech, one can find that Lanius is a much more realistic leader than Caesar. Lanius recognizes that the Legion has suffered too much to take Hoover dam on top of maintaining the east. Caesar would just push on without care for losses. Lanius knows when he has been defeated, and peacefully retreats to the east, but I don't think Caesar would do the same. Lanius acknowledges the Courier as a wise and sensible man, when Caesar thinks of the Courier as a profligate (for most of the Legion questline). Lanius' ego seems to be a lot less childish than Caesar's, who proclaimed himself a god, and will kill anyone who insults him, even if they have a reasonable argument.

Does anyone think Lanius is a lot more intelligent than he is made out to be? Possible a better leader than Caesar? Caesar seems overly ambitious and self-absorbed. Lanius seems to be a lot more humble.

Oppinions?

He still has that whole Murder Death Kill complex going on, so not exactly.

Yes, I think the writers should have been more consistant with his character. His speech options with 100 speech make him seem incapable of being as cruel as he supposedly is. He also has conflicting backstories.

if Lanius was in charge of he legion I probaby would take them seriously.

Lanius actually believs and abides by the draconian enviorment of the legion, even though being so by up on the chain he could easily bypass some of it (like Caesar's Auto-Doc, what a hypocrit).

And the fact you can actually reason with Lanius is a big step up from Caesar. Lanius is definitley "wiser" than Caeser in any sensible use of the word, albeit still being greatly and horribly misguided.

But it wouldn't change the fact that the legion is backwards, sixist, murdering, and overall a bad thing for the mojave, and Lanius would probably run it just as cruel, draconian, and murdering and probably even moreso.

Lanius is a step up from Ceaser but thats not saying much. Lanius is a little blood thirsty and i respect him. I do not respect ceaser at all.

I believe that Caesar knows that losing the east is something that needs to happen, his whole deal is about "the ends justify the means".
So pushing west to annihilate NCR and to establish a new society means that losing the east have to be done.
And hell, they can always return there later once they've taken over the NCR.

I like both of them though, for the Legion I hope that either they win or Lanius is not killed but speeched off to strengthen the Legion.
Cause if Caesar's plan doesn't work then Lanius will be the correct 2nd option.

I'm of the opinon that the 100 Speech check line or the 100 Barter check line is about convincing Lanius that the Legion cannot survive taking Hoover Dam, whether it can or it can't. Playing through for Yes Man and Bartering him away, I got the impression that what I was doing was convincing Lanius that it was wise to agree with me, and that I thought the legion should retreat. Basically, playing on his "as a Legate..." side.

In short, I think Lanius is too manipulatable to be all that good a leader, though he has the plus of actually believing in what he fights for.

I've never chosen the speech option because Lanius is one of the best challenges of the game. Though this makes me think I should give it a shot.

Ooops , double post .

Please delete.

lanius is far more brutal then caesr and a worse leader.

When it comes down to which has more of my respect?
Then definitely Lanius

While I can't say he was the one to see the flaws, seeing as the courier brings up the problems to him and based on his reactions hadn't realized them beforehand,
but I would say he is wiser when compared to Ed, due to the fact he is willing to listen to reason and acknowledge it as being a notable cause to retreat, while I
feel that if you were to make the same statements to Ed he would have you crucified.
But that is only an assumption, I would like to see how Ceasar would actually respond to the statements the courier can give to Lanius.

I suppose it could go down one of three ways
1) He listens just as Lanius did and sees retreat as a reasonable option
2) (mentioned by Gabriel) He refuses and states that losing the East is nothing compared to gaining the West
3) He just has you crucified for speaking against him

I think both are equal. Caesar is less blood-driven and seems to know when enough is enough, but Lanius seems like he is more sensible with his army.

They should make Vulpes Inculta the Caesar. He seems more logical than both, though perhaps less balanced.

This.

At least Lanius values the lives of the people under him, Ceaser just sends them in to wear the enemy down and die. :confused:

Thou should all bow to God and his Malpais Legate for redemption :spotted owl:

Lanius is alright, but I think Vulpes Inculta is what the legion need to conquer the wasteland.

Huh? :mellow:

How do you figure? Caesar himself said that Lanius cares nothing for his soldiers, which is why he is so willing to send soldiers straight into the fray and allow for no retreat. Lanius actually hates the Legion, and is simply loyal to Caesar.

Hell, Lanius even commits decimation on his own men if they fail, ordering each tenth man to be put to death , which Caesar says is a severe tactic which is not normally used.

Lanius is much more cruel than Caesar is.

Caesar says that yes, but is it true? If you use the speech check with Lanius at the end he basically says Caesar spent to many lives of the Legion trying to take the dam and plus if you speak to Lucius he says that Lanius has been in Legion since he was 12. Which doesn't fit with Caeser's story about him. However, I will admit that Lanius is far more brutal that Caeser.

Speaking with Lanius...he's obviously not as dumb as was described by most of the characters in game, but he is hopelessly devoted to Caesar and not his ideals, the Legion as it is known in Fallout New Vegas would crumble without Caesar's ideals. I respect Lanius immensely though.

I'm in love with Caesar! I know most of you think he's a joke, but he single-handedly created an empire, and he knows what he's doing, he knows war. His accomplishments are great and numerous...he just need better loving is all!

In truth, it's obvious that Caesar cares nothing for his troops, half the time I feel like he thinks he's playing a big game of chess. Lanius does care about his troops in battle and what might happen to them, there is actually some sort of value for human life there. Lanius is more sensible, but I don't feel the Legion would do nearly as well under his care.

Given that he does perform decimations, I tend to believe Caesar.

I suppose you're right though, there are conflicting stories concerning him and his origins. Not sure what motive Caesar had to lie though (same can be said for Lanius and Lucius however.)

Caesar has a tumor...it's probably affects his memory

You cant be serous he lies about everything. He lies that he is a god. Hes the least person i would trust.

Could be. However despite what his speech checks and such may suggest, the ending where he takes over the Legion certainly doesn't suggest a "sensible" leader. And seems to be the person that Caesar described to the letter.





I don't really like the Legion, and Caesar's not much better than Lanius, but in terms of keeping it stable and coherent, Caesar is the better bet in my view.

I have a lot more respect for the Monster of the East. While he is portrayed as more of a fighter than a thinker, he seems to be more reasonable than Caesar. Not to mention Lanius is far more scary. He is a capable warrior and leader, whereas Caesar is an old lump of human refuse and ailments whose only saving grace is his mind, despite it having cancer. The centurion Silus also thinks Caesar isn't much of a leader.

Hell, I REALLY hope that the canon ending of New Vegas includes the Courier convincing the Legate of about something just so he can reappear later!


However, I think Obsidian should really patch Lanius' face, damn development oversights >_<

This. Lanius cares about his men, and about actually using battle tactics, something Graham and Caesar never understood, he holds value in the strength of his men, and is in charge because he is the strongest, and he is wise.

Eh...I disagree.

House even says that Caesar is a capable battle strategist, and this shows when at the Battle for Hoover Damn, he circumvents much of the NCR's defenses via the tunnels. Caesar has read and studied the campaigns of the (real) Caesar and has a good grasp of history and tactics used throughout it.

That's Lanius.