I'm aware they hired the 1 or 2 modders to be a part of their team in later projects.
But what I suggesting was a bigger scale. Where they could make a bigger difference.

Anyone who voted "would never work" does not play on PC or are bitter cosole players that call us, the forsworn original fanbase, elitists.

It's been PROVEN modders make better games. How?

They copy mods of previous titles to integrate into their future titles

They hire the top modders (like the author of Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul worked for Obsidian for FNV) to work for them.

So stop being bitter and face the facts.

I've been playing (and still am) Diablo 2/D2/LOD since it was released. There are several mods (of the many available) that are at least as good as the original game put out by Blizzard.

And, we're not just talking about minor changes, but wholesale changes to the entire game that are as deep, if not deeper/better than the original, including new cube recipes, better visuals on spells, etc.

So, yes, I believe the mod-community can do a great job.

Bethesda couldn't do open cities or fast travel from interior settings with Oblivion either and regardless of Bethesda's initial reasons for removing Spellmaking, the final outcome has been utter crap and now magic is just not fun... at all. The removal of Spellmaking has proven itself to be a fundamental design flaw.

Which, by default, would make the game better? Considering it is already loaded with content, and the avenue is open for expansion across all platforms, my question still stands. What is there truely to be gained from being PC exclusive besides preferential issues and the unique UI?

Basically what i'm getting at is that damning consoles because you got what you feel is a "subpar" product is just plain stupid. I understand not being crazy about a control layout or UI that is optimized for console controllers, that does svck. But what is truely held back due to console platform?

Well, aside for the interior, the exterior, and the tires, what's better in a Mercedes as compared to a Yugo?

A game like Skyrim, with so many menus, actions, options, etc, the interface and control layout are basically half of the game. Just coding a game to fully utilize the keyboard and mouse, instead of constricting controls to fit a 9-11 button controller , that's a tenfold improvement.

Aside from the graphics which would look fantastic if the game came with 2048x2048 textures (see Witcher 2) , being able to fully utilize CPU and RAM capacity of an average contemporary computer (2-core, 4 GB RAM) would yield things like bigger, crowded cities which much more activities;minimization of loading screens...

oh, it would be much, much better...

The game is full of content.

I would like to see easter eggs added to the game and novelty stuff. Also higher level fixed level enemies like level 60 or above enemies are needed too

:D

But i've never seen a game made by modders, from the ground up. Can you show me one?

Working together with the developers, is a different story and it works great.

What would be neat is if they remade Daggerfall and Morrowind and stuck us in the marshlands and the mainland of morrowind and made a new, polished, massive game that doesn't limit players due to making the game unbalanced and just give us all the levitation we please. Perhaps super awesome strong monsters with ridiculous stats in some areas could balance it out thus making it the greatest game of all time.

Being as your point about higher AI population is the only valid, non-preference related benefit to PC exclusivity, I don't see where "much, much better" comes into play.

Not in and of itself, no. However, that added size could very easily include more types of weapons and armor, more styles of architecture (which is sorely lacking in Skyrim), greater variety of enemies, larger texture sizes, etc. The game world itself could be a lot bigger. And they would all add to the richness of the world, which would, in fact, make it better.

Then there's the tech that's available on the PC, but no the consoles, that would allow for greater graphics and improved fidelity.

You know, it's really easy to sit on the outside, look at what someone else has created (i.e. Bethesda) and criticize (or crucify) them for their work. It's something else entirely to build that thing from the ground up, pouring your heart, soul, and countless hours into it to make it as great as you can. No respect.

I think it's fair to remember it's not the hard-working coders and artists at these game companies who keep all the awesome stuff modders think up from being in the game. It's the suits that only care about getting the product out ASAP and having it be "accessible".

Crap? Lol. I find magic to be very fun and I'm sure if I go look back at old forum posts I'll see...

"Spell making is op... Remove it."

Modders wish they could do a better job than Bethesda. They would be pretty rich if they could.

Anyone who thinks modders could do a better job than a professional company, is biased.

Can the make a better game? No

Can they make a game better? Yes

Good points, but with that being said do you feel that allowing for console development of a title has caused games (Skyrim in this instant) to be terrible? The implication made by the original guy I quoted was that Skyrim was terrible because it was made for consoles. Does that stand based on marginal improvements that are available to the PC? In my opinion they do not.

I'd have to be an idiot to act like the PC isn't more capable, that's not what i'm doing here. I just wanted to see if that guy could legitimize his claim.

Four quest mods that are better than all of Skyrim quests combined.

• The Lost Spires
  
• The Butcher Of Armindale
  
• Malevolent
  
• Ruined tails tale

I wouldn't say terrible, no. I have a number of issues with Skryim, but it's not a terrible game. I do rather enjoy it. It's just a shadow of what it could have been, even without being a PC exclusive.

And I wouldn't call the possible improvements marginal.

Look guys. What you have to remember is the devs make the CK and CS as well as the actual game. So really ask yourselves...

Could modders make a better TES game without the use of the devs toolset(Creation Kit) and only their own creativity and assets to come up with a game within a reasonably timeframe that is better than the one BGS made?

Seriously? I sure as hell do not think so. Nehrim looks great and all but they used the CS to make it.

Modders are great but they are not dev teams. They can make new worlds and quests given the tools Bethesda gives them. But seriously look at the mods out for Skyrim now without the Ck and compare them to the mods done to Oblivion with the CS. There is a big quality gap and they are incredibly limited by what they can do without the CK. The modders can do amazing things even without the CK but they need the thing to make any mods that really blow the game away.

This game is FAR from terrible... And yes consoles does limit the ability, but I don't think it did. I think it was just Beths choice on what they removed.

Eh, ever heard of Andoran?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTchuHwzULg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq8N9Yovj8c


Apparently it's a whole new game made by modders, built into Oblivion.

Large scale mods are always full of bugs. It is overlooked because they are free. This topic is pretty insulting to bethesda, after all without them the modders would have absolutely nothing to work with.

It depends on what is defined as better. If it is adding in the past attribute system from the previous games I would say no. Spears, you betcha it's automatically better. :biggrin:

I guess you didn't get the car anology. You can't just say "oh, besides the UI, controls, graphics, what can be better?". I'll iterate, in a game with the number of options, menus, screens, etc as Skyrim, the user interface makes a HUGE difference. HUGE! You may not know what is a proper PC user interface in a video game because you play on a console, you may not have experienced what is like to play a game like Skyrim with a proper PC user interface, but I do, and I have. A fluid user interface adds a lot to the game experience.

It's simple, really... a game controller has about 10-11 buttons. A standard US keyboard has 104 keys, plus a standard mouse (now that's 2 controllers, KB+M)) has 3 buttons. My mouse has more buttons than your standard game pad. It just gives you so much control, it makes handling inventory so much better, equipping armor/weapons, alchemy, etc etc etc.

As for graphics... I am still playing Witcher 2... I look at Witcher 2 and its 2048x2048 textures, and compare them to the 512x512 Skyrim textures... guess which one looks more like you are in a desert, or you are in a rain forest... or the number and quality of animations in Witcher 2, then look at Skyrim animations (should check the dragon flight in W2).

... and let's face it. the content in Skyrim is not that special...


So, again, you question equates to asking "besides the interior and the exterior, what's better in a Mercedes as compared to a Yugo?".

Pretty much, mods are modifications to an existing game, You still have to have a good game to mod