You do realize that the people who put the game together do so with the construction set, and that the people who code the construction set are not the same people who put the game together?

Nah. As much as I criticize Bethesda for making certain boneheaded design decisions, and although I admire the modding community in general, a bunch of modders would be ill-suited to creating a game like Skyrim.

I suppose it would depend on the modders, but keep in mind that a game like Skyrim calls for professional artists, modelers, voice actors, musicians, programmers, dialog writers (not that that's Bethesda's strong suit, mind you), dyed-in-the-wool knowledgeable programmers, and so on.

Now, replacing whoever's decided that Elder Scrolls games should be casual-friendly (not literally casual, but getting there), console-centric games might do quite a lot of good... for me, anyway.

If they had the code and the engine already done, then yes, I think they could.

All still part of Bethesda's process is it not? Who obtains the CK? Who gets it made? They are responsible for its existence are they not?

..and again, there is a number of people who mod Skyrim who are real life professional programmers, 3D artists, musicians, etc.

I am quite familiar with PC gaming thanks, I don't believe in platform monogamy. Anyway, yes, I understood your car comparison but that is invalid to my question. What I am asking has nothing to do with the unique interaction that can (and should) be applied to a PC game. My question was what, relevant to content, is made terrible by allowing for console development.

Sure, the PC is more capable (as i've already agreed to) but the original comment I replied to implied that the game was crap due to it's development on consoles, and that is simply untrue. Slightly gimped? Sure, but not trash. Your examples of what would be improved if it were PC exclusive are preferential, or unique to the platform, not development as a whole.

Can those that mod make a better TES game? That's questionable with the lore. I'm sure there are those who know it inside and out, so I wouldn't doubt it.

Can those who mod make a better game with that plays like TES games? Without a doubt!





Just look at all of the external utilities that the modding community has come up with to work around the limitations of the Construction Sets. There are people very talented with programming. There are people writing new engines for Morrowind. There are people porting Daggerfall to another engine.

Even without writing a new engine from scratch, there are many non-Bethesda-made engines out there, so creating your own engine is hardly a requirement.

To believe that those who "mod" are only capable of "modifying" what is there is seriously taking for granted the people in the community. These modders are also programmers, 3D artists, writers, etc. Not all of them, of course, but there are quite a few.




Haha, the question wasn't who could make the most money. It was who could make the better game. I'm sure Bethesda is capable of making a game better than Skyrim... it did make Daggerfall and Morrowind, after all... but they made Skyrim as it is. Whatever may be the reason for that, be it time limitation or lack of money, it doesn't matter. It is what it is, and it will not be any better because of Bethesda's doings. They may release the Creation Kit, but that doesn't make the game better in itself. Even without the Creation Kit, the modding community has shown its capability to make Skyrim better on its own. I am proud of them.

And what I am trying to tell you, is that there are some modders who have the know-how to code something like the construction set.
Do you think the people who wrote/maintain TESsnip, BOSS, Wrye Bash, etc don't know a thing or two about coding?
Do you think the people who did stuff like creating dual-weapon wielding animations for Oblivion or unique weapons/armor/objects/etc don't know a thing or two about 3D graphics and animations?

The technology gamesas uses is not some magical, proprietary technology gamesas created. It is used in other fields by other professionals, and some of these professionals mod games for fun.

I am pretty sure if someone had the initiative and the money to finance it, he/she could recruit modders and make a better TES than Bethesda... especially considering they'd do it with PC in mind.

If Bethesda had PC in mind and infinite budget they could make a better game too. Consoles bring in a ton of money so why would Beth sell only for PC?

Anybody could make a better TES then Beth, the only thing is you have to get that theory into gameplay and I believe that the majority of people wouldn't be able to do that.

I respect the work of modders. They have, over the years added a great deal to games I already enjoyed. I appreciate that and think they should be lauded for it. I wish I was half as good at it.

Would they make a better game from scratch as opposed to modifying an existing one though? I believe that would be akin to hearding cats. The good thing about mods is you can pick and choose which to add to the existing game. If the modding community made a game from scratch I think it may collapse under the weight of mixed quality - unless there was an amazing system in place to set quality accross the board.

I imagine, based on some work, some of the best modders out there could probably make a damn fine game inspired by TES.

Larger cities, and not in their own cells would have been easy. More variety in interiors, would not have had to reuse so many textures/models. And don't dismiss UI and graphics, both huge parts of a game, beth easily could have doubled the texture resolution, used a modern engine, and had DX11 ( imagine round objects in a game and non jagged terrain). Imagine no more ugly LOD.

All of that would have made the experience more immersive.

Where is the "Thread doesn't make any sense" option on the poll?

no, taking a game an changing it =/= creating a game. if they could, they wouldnt be modding, they'd be developing. harsh fact but there it is.

Making a game is more complex than modders + money + 3 years. Vastly more complex... especially for something on the scale of TES, do you know how many support staff are behind such a feat? that in fact dont even touch the game yet still contribute and produce?

Although, there is no denying that this is how small ventures and indie games get made...sometimes.

I disagree. What you are saying is assuming a lot of IFs. IF someone(who?) could have the intitiative and money to finance it. IF the modding team could work well together. IF a sizable team could even be brought together without major conflicts. IF the person in charge was open minded or not. IF the team assembled was ableto stay true to the lore. IF, IF, IF.

Besides if BGS just made the game for PC within the same timeframe and budget they normally have they would do a much better job and still retain that sense of integrity for the lore and the vision of the game. A bunch of modders would never do the series justice as they are not the people who made the game.

It is quite disrespectful to say that the modders could make a better TES game. Not to mention that it has little real basis.

I didn't realize the previous comment about the game as a whole being trash.. i find the game very entertaining myself, even with the trash UI
It just could've been a so much better experience with a proper PC interface.

As far as content, I take it you are referring to the writing, number of quests, etc?
Well, writing obviously doesn't matter which platform...
Number of quests? Generating quests that re-use the same assets doesn't take that much for either platform...
But the number of assets in the entire game, and on a given cell, which include not only NPCs, but objects with collisions as well, that can affect the way some content is presented. For example, any of the siege quests in Skyrim: attacking an entire city with 6 other NPCs makes for a less than convincing sequence. So, the content is there, i.e., a city siege sequence, but because of the console shortcomings, the sequence becomes less than convincing. Compare that to the siege sequence in (here I go again with ) Witcher 2 where the king walks past something like 50 NPC soldiers on his way is talking to about 30 or so NPC knights before attacking the walls, then the siege sequence (content) is convincing.

Hold on a second there. YOU are the one adding the bunch of IFs and putting words in my mouth. I am SURE there are modders who could come together and put a better game than Bethesda because not only they have as good professional know-how as any Bethesda employee, but they would do it for the love of the series, and direct their efforts to a game that plays on PC. User interface alone would be better tenfold.

Modders dont really ever make meshes and whatnot

Besides, theres always a visual difference in anything added by modders, and it looks like poo

I've never really been impressed with mods

I really, highly doubt this.

Modders supporting Bethesda, heck yes they can make the game better.

Modders REPLACING Bethesda... I dunno. But maybe not that far-fetched.



http://nehrim.de/startEV.html

...and they should start by hiring DarN.

I'm not going to read this entire thread, but I'll put my opinion down which has probably been said lots of times in thread already.

If the modders could make better games than Bethesda, they would be doing it and getting paid, rather than modifying the code of Bethesda.

flawed premise as modders are not game developers. Hire modders as game developers, and you'll have the same issue we see now. It's not like letting the "better guys" into the building, and then they go nuts and make a mind-blowing game. That's fantasyland; it's not how the world works. Lots of movies from the '80s revolved around the basic premise of 'smart/cool guys do it better than the establishment because they break the rules' and it's good for a movie but that's about it.



I am sorry to say that Nehrim is not a 'from the ground up game'. It is a total conversion for an existing game called Oblivion.



You're obviously not familiar with the GALAXY of top-notch work done by modders then