Hey everyone.

All you have to do to raise your SPECIAL stats is plop in a perk. And there's no reason you can't have every stat at 10. What do you think about this? Should it be harder to raise a stat? Perhaps is should require two perk points. Or maybe it should require something ingame, such as surgery or as a reward for a quest. Should there be a limit on how many stats you can raise to ten?

I think for my next playthough I will impose a rule that I can only raise a perk once every five or maybe even ten levels. That would make it all the more important to choose the right stats when I create my character, and impose some limits that I have to work within when levelling. I think that will make it interesting. I'd have to plan my character out more carefully.

What do you reckon?

No's across the board.

You do you, I do me, and we don't do each other.

Would be better if the game scaled better with high-level SSes.

You should encounter things like "Legendary Glowing Demigod Herculean Folk-Hero Deathclaw" at lv. 60.

It takes a minimum of 35 levels to get all your specials to 10, and that is assuming you get all bobble heads first, if you want to get to ten in each stat without bobbleheads it takes 42, which is enormous.

You used to start with 40 points in special out of 70, now you only start with 28,

which is more than enough to compensate the ease with which you can level them up, it takes 12 levels to get where you start in the other games, and you have the rising exp costs from those levels to consider.

Well said.

If you want every stat at 10, that's a lot of levels, without taking any perks.

The stat points simply unlock the perks, which in many cases require multiple points to provide full benefit.

On face value, it may seem 'too easy', but there is a lot more to it than face value.

Quoted for emphasis. I've done a playthrough raising all special to10 before grabbing bobbleheads. It was painful. Will never do it again.

I don't think it's quite so easy to max SPECIAL out. As mentioned above, it'd take a minimum of 35 levels to max them all out, but nobody is going to actually do this. There are numerous other perks that you practically have to get earlier in the game, or there is at least a very compelling reason to get them. Lockpicking and hacking are basically obligatory. Gun Nut, Armorer, Science!, and Blacksmith are essential if you want to use anything but base level guns and random pickups. Local Leader and Cap Collector are essential if you really want to get involved in the settlement building. The various weapon damage boosting perks are important. I'm in my second play through right now and I currently have 6 for every SPECIAL aside from Perception, which is a 7. I'm at level 51, so most of my perk points have gone into all of the other perks I mentioned previously.

I think the system is fine as is.

I agrees with QC. We have our own way to play and myself did not need to max out attributes until very high level because I had armor and clothes that gave me the wanted bonus. Lockpick and hacking are essential or else you may miss some good loot and harder to finish a quests where you need to pass doors etc. Settlement features are so big part of this game so these skills connected to building stuffs are also very wanted.

Cheers,

-Klevs

it seems perks have stronger effects than special points do so i dont think this is unbalanced, especially cause legendary armor and clothing can give you all the special you want

I'm not the biggest of being able to raise attributes after char gen, aside from mags, items and non level up perks, which should he finite..

But I do console myself with the fact that it would take a loooooooong time to get everything. And I don't have to pick a perk every level.
You won't be forced into becoming OP, but if you really want to grind away or indulge, the option is there.

I do see some mods going towards level ups and perks as well.

Mine goal is to take every perk available. That should not take more than few months realtime (give/take) I guess, but the game is slow to lvl up now. Going to take a break from game now and then, a little bit tired of running the radiant quests and I will wait for patch/dlc/mod/editor before I will continue the settlement stuffs.

Cheers,

-Klevs

IMHO that is the much bigger balancing problem

With Charisma @ 11 you pass every speech check, and with the right armor and clothing parts, it's easy to go there even without skilling for it

i think this would only be relevant if perks have requirements again and you need to be much more strategic...but bethesda seems to want everything as washed out as possible....

It's just fine as it is.

no because although you can focus on special stats you're doing it at the expense of perks, which are basically skills, its balanced fine, i like to raise a lot of my special stats early but its at a cost i am way more limited on my perks and ranks so i have to really plan out what i want, so its fine how it is, it takes a while to level up.

if you couldn't raise your special stats you be locked out of 90% of the perks not counting the ranks in those perks so you wouldn't be able to specialize your character hardly at all, so the way its designed its already pretty hard, if you want to raise your special stats to 10 or close to it you would have to play like 35 levels and thats without getting to pick any perks so its actually not that easy, anyone who plays knows this, you can play to level 30 or 40 and not have a ton of perks or a lot of ranks in most of em and it takes a while to get to level 30 or 40, let alone level 50 and on, its not easy to get a lot perks, ranks and special stat increases it takes a lot of planning what you really want cause you can't be good at everything in this game, you just can't, most people aren't gonna play to level 100 they're gonna restart long before that happens.

Since I rarely raise my Specials before I run out of useful perks, which is in the 30s, I don't think those points are as valuable as you think @OP.

Some really good arguments. Thanks guys.

Really don't see much of a problem with leveling honestly.


I've also found Fallout 4 has less useless perks or perks that don't grow useless with time. For instance in FO3 you had the perk that raised skill points taught by a book or grant more experience. Now while that is good at the start the moment you get high leveled they start outliving their usefulness, especially when you've read all the skill books or hit the level cap. Now you're sitting there being penalized because you wanted a faster way to get experience or skill points, that's really not a good system, it's kind of a bad system.

I kind of wish it wasn't. As it stands, on a long enough timeline, we'll have 10 (or 11) SPECIAL plus all perk levels. Thus, 'builds' go out the window past about Lv 100 as we'll have several to choose from.


My only real issue with that is that it discourages me from doing multiple playthroughs - if I want to swap out to a melee build I can just get a few levels and I'm good to go with my original guy.


Not a dealbreaker for me either way - I look forward to demigod status, nigh-unkillable and every weapon I touch is effectively legendary.

Well I mean, that argument is solved by the fact you don't have to spend those perk points. That's still an option. I don't see why arbitrary restrictions are necessary when it's just easier to just not use the points after a certain level or build goal is achieved.

if you were only upgrading a special perk every 5 levels you would be level 175-210 before maxing your special (depending on bobbleheads), and would be forced to for every 10 levels because there are only 262-269 possible things to spend perks on (bobbleheads)

It's not easy... you have to level up to raise them... If you want a hardcoe grindfest tedious RPG go play the older Fallouts.