I'd say that makes them smarter, that's what they created them for anyway. Also your confusing gameplay with how it is in the "lore". Power Armor was much better than it's portrayed in FO3. So PA equipped trooper would basically be unstoppable to anything that wasn't armed with anti-tank weapons for the most part. Yau Guai will kill most things out there regardless.


haha, again I would say they're playing it smart. Just look at Lyon's they been fighting a loosing war with the SM they are depleted of manpower and resources. With the Enclaves plan it would kill ALL threats to humanity in one shot. No protracted wars that waste lives and resources that could better be used to rebuild America.

That's a moot point. How do you think terrorist get their suicide bombers to actually sacrifice themselves like that ? With promise to take care of their families , by saying they'll be heroes in the afterlife and will be enshrined as gods in their ranks.

If any of those 9/11 type sickos would tell you "sorry , i'm just trying to feed my family" would you say "that's ok come and kill my wife and kids , my mother and father , hell even my whole family , afterall your just trying to feed your large family." If so then you are more sick than the lot of them.

The enclave is the same , even if they don't "believe" in doing harm to wastelanders , they still do it. How many times has a drunk driver didn't mean to kill a old woman or a child while driving drunk but he still goes to jail.

As the game says "the capital wasteland lacks a judicial system and correctional facilities so if you are caught wrong doing be prepared for it to cost your life".

Of course , FO3 is just a game so the enclave cannot be entirely to blame they do as they are scripted to do. But to start justifying their actions , is like trying to justify why 9/11 suicide hi-jackers were right to kill thousands of innocent people.

The point of what I stated was not about the armor, I was just saying that some people like to support the antagonist because that antagonist is bad ass.



*Sigh*

Nobody sees the point I am trying to make.

I know, I was just saying. I prefer The Pill Head-The Joker, I mean, over the Empire.

Good? No. Bad? Ehh.... no. Dark Gray? Sure, why not.

Then replace what I said about Star Wars with that.

Some people just love a great antagonist.

Indeed, the Enclave suffers from the exact same problems too! They have the best most accurate soldiers but when it comes to taking out some teenager they get there crawler blown up!

I whole-heartedly disagree with that (big surprise i know) , of course the enclave wants to limit the number of casualties by inserting the FEV. That doesn't make it honorable , but what would the enclave know about honor it's like trying to teach a dog the concept of evolution.

Also don't mistake me for a BoS sympathizer either , i dislike the BoS just as much.

If the power armor is so strong then why are the all-mighty enclave afraid of a super mutant brute ?? Why , oh why does it take a vault dweller to kill a behemoth by his lonesome ? Why do enclave soldiers get killed by a simple hunting rifle ?

Once again ? the "lore" of the power armor is not what you see in FO3 , then may i suggest you stick to the "lore" part of the forums.

Besides if the enclave is so powerful why can't they figure out a three digit code ? try to explain that one while still making the enclave look good lmao.

I'd love to continue this debate , unfortunetly i have prior engagements to attend to , but i will look for your reply once i've returned. (if i didn't forget about you already , which is almost a certainty lol)

Well, they're very militaristic, I'd say they would know a lot about honor. Only one crazy computer wants to kill everybody. Maybe a good bit of the actual Enclave, though since he would have to have followers.

Say what? Did you actually listen to what he said? He wasn't killing humanity, he was saving it. He also said he was sorry for it but it was the only way.





Cuz gamesas messed up the combat system?

Nope. They are anything, but good. Most people say how good they are, but if you were a wastelander. Which 99% of us would be in that situtation. Would you still like them? Most people would be running in fear of them, because they are cowards that murder unarmed civilians. They only people they deem worthy of living is themselves.

Have you ever watched the introduction to Fallout 2?

Have you ever seen what the Enclave does?

Have you ever heard of their plot in Fallout 2 and 3?

How can you ignore the evidence placed in front of you?

The Enclave are and have always been evil, even in Fallout 2. They treat everyone who is not one of them like dirt and want to eradicate them, as they are not "pure". Liking the antagonist is not a bad thing, but reversing their role to a heroic protagonist is ridiculous. They ARE evil, or at the very least, chaotically neutral. There is no way these elitists are good, or anywhere close. They are on the evil side, even if you try to pass them off as neutral. I see some people saying that Fallout 3 isn't canon, yet they use "evidence" from the game to try and prove their point. One, Fallout 3 is canon. Two, they are evil in both Fallout 2 and 3. Terrorists believe what they are doing is right, but do you consider them good? Can you even say they are anything less than evil? How are the Enclave different? They are elitist snobs who kill anything that isn't "pure", and still treat the "pure" ones, like vault-dwellers, like dirt. They are bad news and what Bethesda AND Black Isle Studios says is true, is true. They are evil.

Now hold your horses a bit... You do have to take lore into account, because the game mechanics doesn't give an accurate description of the setting. If it did, it would be so frustratingly hard to play (because you keep dying all the time) that many people wouldn't play it.

The NPC AI limits what kind of tactics and skills they can use, and it takes a vault dweller to kill a Behemot because of teh aforementioned AI limits and the fact that you as the player are unrealistically hard to kill.

And the Enclave can't figure out a three digit code for plot reasons. If they treated it realistically, they'd slap a safe/code-cracking device onto that thing and solve it pretty quickly, but then where would the story be?

You ever heard of opinions?

Well, Autumn DOES want to gain the trust of the wasteland and not kill them. But yeah, Eden's Enclave is Mucho Evil.

Yeah, why do you think there are serial killers and terrorists in the world? Who am I to say that genocide is bad, right? It's all about opinion. I perceive gunning down helpless people as bad, but some people find it okay, so it must be okay, right?

Who justifies such things? Opinions are a big part of life and I respect them, but not when it comes to genocide. That is just plain wrong.

When did I say that I support terrorists?

Still, no one can change my mind on my views on the Enclave. I do not necessarily support the Enclave's ideals, but I just like them. I don't see how liking an antagonist means I support terrorists.

Richardson's Enclave was just as bad. Their philosophy is exactly what Eden's is.

Also, Autumn still shoots innocents and still considers anyone who is "impure", dirt. He would never treat a wastelander as his equal, not even close. Eden's Enclave and Richardson's Enclave ARE the Enclave. Autumn doesn't lead the Enclave. He is one person with perhaps only a few soldiers following him. We only know that Autumn doesn't like the FEV idea, but only Autumn. Both known leaders of the Enclave supported use of the modified FEV and so most of the Enclave would have as well. The true Enclave has made that their goal. Fallout 2's Enclave was attempting the exact, same thing. Autumn is still part of the Enclave and still follows their philosophy, but only he has been confirmed of disagreeing with this one thing, and of course there will be some who disagree, but Autumn and a couple of his soldiers do not represent the Enclave. He didn't even appear in Fallout 2. Face it, the actual Enclave supports the eradication of the "impure".

I said in my post that liking the antagonist is fine, but my post was mostly about pointing out how making them into a hero is ridiculous. You stated " Have you ever heard of opinions?" as a reply to a post saying they are genocidal murderers. I picked that up as you saying genocide is fine. I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying and I am misunderstanding what you are saying.

"Disposal of genetic non-compliance offenders."

Pretty much says it all.

Okay, I see.

I do agree with you when you say that saying the Enclave is good is ridiculous. Again, I consider them morally gray(same goes for the Brotherhood), not good.

This thread seems to have gone silent.

Can anyone oppose my opinion, with evidence?

No one? :sadvaultboy:

Somebody somewhere might be able to, but the rest of us have nothing . Or maybe we're just too tired of going over this. It's all up to personal opinion, anyway.

I've won?! B)