You can't win when it deals with opinion. Until everybody everywhere just says "Yeah, the Enclave are 100% evil" you haven't "won".

All I have stated is why they are not good, not neccesarily 100%. evil How is genocide a factor of a good group of people? However, if no one opposes my idea with good evidence, I consider that a win. :toughninja:

Each faction has its own guiding philosophy, and on the basis of the philosophy, the members consider themselves good. If you're going to evaluate which faction is the most good, you need to define the objective criteria for good and evil. Personally, I don't believe there are any truly good factions in the game, though the Brotherhood of Steel is certainly closest.

Didn't I just give lots of reason on how the Enclave can be viewed as "good"? Or was that the other thread?

I have no clue, but it doesn't matter. The Enclave don't work like the game's karma system. They can't erase their habit and record of GENOCIDE by "giving caps to the beggars", as a metaphor. Their actions are completely unacceptable. There is no way they are good. It's impossible for mass murderers to be considered good, especially when they still practice genocide.

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Just my opinion but i think they are evil

That is the opinion of the creators of Fallout 2 and the creators of Fallout 3 as well.

Say what? I never said anything about the games systems.


The Enclave think on a different scale, they are playing for the survival of the human race. Not just one part of it. There goal in FO2 was to eliminate all dangers to humanity as quick and painless as possible. They would then have a safe and secure land to rebuild the great American nation. Yes they had to make some unpleasant decisions, but it was all for a better future for humanity. Instead of fighting and hunting down each and every mutant threat thus wasting lives and resources they made a plan to get them all in one global shot.

Think of it this way, there is a disease that will eventually turn anyone it infects into a mindless killer zombie, the whole world got infected but a few people in special shelters. Now your the leader of the most powerful group of those shelters. Would you honestly send out your people to hunt down and kill each of the Zombies, or would you work on a plan that would wipe out the disease without putting any of your people in harms way? Would you let in infected people, that will turn on you spreading the disease further into your bases?

One, I'm saying genocide is not acceptable, no matter what good they do.

Two, ghoulification is not a disease. Most people are not ghoulified. The modified FEV will kill anyone with a mutation, even a very slight one.

Can i just ask, where did you get all this information from? I know there is a wiki fallout with info and such, but i didnt think it went into such detail as whats been talked about.

Be nice to know and learn all about "Fallout" and its respected stories and "history"

I got this stuff by wandering around the wasteland in Fallout 3 and seeing things , and I played the originals, but I admit I have never beat either one yet. There is something called the Fallout Bible that I have heard about, but I have never read it, so I don't know what's in it.

Well, the Vault(Fallout Wiki) helps a lot. But, I think you can gain the most amount of info by playing the games themselves.

The vault does contain some interesting history.

So you would admit that you would let someone else exterminated the human race, because you don't want to fight back? You would let in the Zombies as it were.

To answer your ghoul question, in my previous scenario, people infected with the disease are feeble and fragile. The resources taking care of them would put an unreasonable strain on the supplies on your healthy productive citizens. Just see how far your hospitality is going to hold up when your peolpe start to die of lack of medical care and food because you want to help the "enemy".

Evolution is genocide that's a good thing right?

Ive played all 3 games (4 if you count fallout tactics, which wasnt part of the fallout series i believe)

I have completed them (all be it, many moons ago) started back on Fallout 3 again, had a wee break from it. But having played the game, i dont seem (maybe cause im a thicko) the in-depth knowleadge of the game.. I know major facts, 2077 Great war happned, lasted 2 hours, China vs USA etc... but i know the Enclave, appear to be the evil side and BOS seem the Good side, but didnt reliase there was a true deep history/long run storyline for these sides.

I have read (seemingly) quickly through the Fallout Wiki page and have now just downloaded the Fallout bible..

Maybe i need to "Explore" and "Read Into Fallout Lore" alot more to understand the true gameplay generics and history..

Lots of it is in the actual dialogues and stuff you get if you go through and talk to various people in FO1 +2. Do you have any specific questions? I probably could answer most things. anyway Seti I'm not arguing that the Enclave is "messiah" good, I'm saying that they aren't "mindless evil" bad. they are grey just like the Master. gamesas made them "mindless bad guys" in FO3. If you actually get to talk to richardson to compare his dialogue with Edens you'll see just how bad Eden was.

The modified FEV would kill most of the wasteland, not just ghouls or super mutants. Ghoulification is not a disease. It also is not contagious. The Enclave themselves were going to kill much of the U.S. remaining human population. Once again, I also would like to refer to Fallout 2's introduction. Explain that and other human casualties caused by the Enclave. By what you have told me, I am guessing that Richardson is a good speaker as he seems to have convinced you that the Enclave are harmless.

Again your using the term "human population" they would kill exactly 0 humans with there plan. Answer this, if you had to order the killing a lets say 5 people to save the whole of humanity would you give such an order?

:facepalm: The modified FEV Richardson wanted to use would kill off almost all wastelanders because almost all of them have a small mutation. This strain of FEV was almost identical to Eden's, which would have had nearly identical effects.

FEV isn't known for being the most stable of things. There's a risk that the modified FEV would off anyone with a genetic mutation. The last time I checked, I'm human, yet I was born with a birth defect--a mutation. There's a chance that such a thing would kill me because I'm not "normal".

Also, Ghouls aren't fragile. I don't know where you got that from. Many of them have been alive for over 200 years and in the Wasteland, you can't survive that long and be a weak person.

EDIT: Before you ask: microphthalmia with the addition of an unrelated bone-cyst. I was lucky to be born with eyelids and not have it in both eyes.

EDIT2: And your five people scenario.. it'd be a Hell of a lot more than five people.

Refer to my sig.

they are quite fragile, they just don't die very easily. If you replay the originals you'll see most of them suffer from crippled limbs and other weird or horrible disfigurements.



That was the whole reason why they took Arroyo and Vault 13 in the first place. To engineer the Virus to kill only those they wanted to kill.




I would say that is a big fat negitory, Last I heard putting the FEV in kills like no one. a far cry from what the original plan Richardson had. Also Kikai fine say 20 people then would yo ustill choose to damn humanity to a slow death instead of sacrificing those few?

Anyone with a slight mutation would be killed.