The Enclave are seen as evil and- at the least- unjust in the way they govern the Capitol Wasteland. So I need answers: is the Enclave good or not?

Well they are trying to resurrect the world to it's former glory, but the question is: Does the end justify the means?

It really depends on who you ask. The Enclave are essentially satire of a xenophobic and paranoid government that is so paranoid that they fear their own people.

Why do you ask others who is good or who is not? It's up to you to decide.

The fact that they wanted to infect every single wastelander with a virus to "purify" the world makes them pretty evil IMO.
Legion tries to restore humanity as well, they're still very brutal, but at least they give people a chance.
Enclave basically wants to murder just about every single person around the world for being mutants and only have them and control vaults survive.
Can't see them as anything but evil.
Don't get me wrong, their heart is kinda in the right place, they do want to restore the world, and by killing ever wastelander and mutant there would be no more raiders, bandits, anarchy or wars.
There'd only be Enclave and it's citizens left.
A world free of chaos that the Great War once gave birth to.
But the price is too damn high for the ends justify the means.

In a way, the ends justify the means, sure you have to sacrifice lives, but that's what history was mounted on. If Eden's plan suceeded, it'd still fail, and for two reasons.

1. The Enclave as it was in F3, was in rags, especially with Broken Steel, which forces the Enclave to be shattered twice. But that said. The Enclave as an entity? I'd say they are in the same boat as the Legion, they think their ideas are the way for rebuilding humanity, but in the end, they are misguided and their actions prove this. But is every individual in the Enclave evil? No, and New Vegas proves there were some good souls amongst the bad.

Well personally I think that the Remnant's were being massively over-compensatory in a big way for, how shall we say, the [censored]e presentation of the Enclave in F3. The patrolmen in Fallout 2 had no problem with killing you and often took the piss and laughed before doing so.

I think they are insane, why, which one of their 'cleansing' plans worked exactly? Genocide, vault experiments and now they are paranoid(@shdowhuntt60), damn. But hey who isn't crazy in Fallout. Its all about power my friend.

That's where their genocide plan stems from. Paranoia sparked by their encounter with remnants from The Master's army.

No.

I'm not one of those "idiotic" Enclave people.

That and geniune genetic inferiorities in the mainland surivivors and the absolute impossibility for the Enclave to enforce their law and that nobody would respect it anyway.

Evil is in the eye of the beholder. I don't see the Enclave as evil, the same as I don't see the Legion as evil.

Others may have different opinions but it is up to them to decide. Nothing is going to change my view though.

I edited some, shall we say, tongue-in-cheek ribbing that may have missed its mark. Feel free to discuss, keep personal attacks out of it.

What I think he is saying, Lieutenant, is that he doesn't want the same old arguement about how they are doing it for the good of humanity. Well the fact is, the way they go about it shows no concern for peace, as they use violence to get their way. As shown in the intro of Fallout 1.

With project purity, the way that Autumn, the supposed 'good guy' of the Enclave, does not even give breathing room for the scientists. "Give me what I want, or die"
And simply that, in Fallout 2 they capture the base of Arroyo as test experiments? As if they think that sentiment beings, even if non-irradiated are nothing more than animals that you can play lab with.

You find out that the Enclave is behind the sick Vault experiments because they wanted to test 'social environments' and how humans react to them.
I don't care WHAT they set out to do, they are a sadistic group of xenophobic We-Are-America Elitists.

Not one time, have I seen them do anything that shows any REAL good morale side of them, 'the end justifies the means' is not good enough for me. They have not tried to be peaceful, they have not done anything but kill anyone that seems to be an obstacle for their very, very unethical plans for rebuilding America.

Enclave is evil, if they weren't, why would they have been the antagonist for the first 4 games? For gods sake, they have no good side. Even Autumn, which most Enclave Huggers decide to personify the enclaves real values which in reality he is just a rebel among the REAL Enclave.. Has plans for extortion with Project Purity, and plans to use it as leverage over the wastelanders.


Enclave is an evil, sick organization and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

The Enclave are the enemy in two Fallout games.

The Enclave uses the tribal villagers, because they are freshly mutated stock from the decendants the pure-human stock of Vault 13, they use them as test subjects to develop a virus which will kill even those only recently transformed into something not exactly human and they use the Vault 13 survivors to develop a vaccine, after many of their own volunteers (including the Vice President) for the vaccine were killed or took massive amounts of internal damage both physically and mentally.

The part where Autumn shoots the scientist who would obviously be important for the Enclave to learn what the purifier does is just Bethesda's stupid ham-fisted way of making the Enclave seem immediately evil, anyone in their right mind wouldn't shoot the experts of something you need doing.

The Vault experiments were also pretty stupid and the one part of the Enclave's modus operandi I niether understand or agree with, to my knowledge the whole space travel thing has not appeared in any game and I have no idea if it is canon or not; the Vault experiments serve no purpose to me and are a great injustice to the American people who could have been used to repopulate the Earth.

You have never seen the Enclave do anything that shows any real moral side to them because they have not done ever, they left the Oil Rig not with the intent to kill everyone but instead saw the mainland as a hostile place over-run with crime, filth, mutations (both of the genetic and "super" variety) and general chaos, they had absolutely no way of establishing any kind of order and even the civilised organisations like the NCR would never acknowledge the Enclave and would have destroyed them for there stuff.

I agree on the Autumn thing, they also seem to forget that Autumn had no problem with the Enclave extermination camps. Autumn is not the Enclave's goodside and the way he just says one sentance to make all the of the Enclave over-ride the orders of the President (got to love it when he says "The chain-of-command must be obeyed" not to long after :shrug:) in what some see as some form of rebellion was actually just Bethesda's half-assed way to have a awesome gun-fight in Raven Rock and find someway to shoe-horn the player into the main plot. If you don't agree with the Enclave's grand mission then don't say you like them if "They wouldn't kill people," or something like that, that's what the Enclave does.

Of course the Enclave have no good-side, when has the term "The ends justify the means" ever been used in the context of people being moral and just? The Enclave see that the only way for democracy (which they were in Fallout 2), civilisation and such to live again would be to wipe the slate clean and start again from just what they had. Every human being born from then one would live in a clean, safe world of no wars and little risks and constant progress and rebuilding; the main question when you put aside all terms like "sick" and such is whether the cost of several billion lives is too great for the chance to properly rebuild and for everyone from that point to be safe.

We have like a hundred threads on the Enlave and the BOS. Yes the Enclave is evil. Sure Mr. Enclave would tell you different but for obvious reasons.

The Enclave range from misguided to outright evil; I wouldn't call most of the rank-and-file Joe Enclave troopers evil but the higher-ups can get pretty twisted.

I agree, thats the one operation of the Enclave that I find flaw with. It would have made more sense to accept the vault dwellers into the Enclave so that they could boost their numbers (although they did offer Vault 101 that opportunity).


Still though, doesn't mean they are evil. No faction is really "evil" in Fallout. It all depends on who you ask.

i would say they are evil for no other reason than because they attacked me, but i guess if thats not enough, they actively try to commit genocide on every living thing in the wasteland... because they are impure or something.

Another thing that bothers me, what if they did actually succeed? would they just chill or what? I mean there plan doesn't make any since. What are their plans after killing off everything? What are they going to eat if they kill off all the animals? How are they going to grow plants if the plants are too mutated to survive the water? I don't think they have enough people to repopulate the earth. So what's the plan?

So in the end they are stupid as well as evil

The space travel part is not canon. It was to be in Van Buren.

My view of the Enclave was they knew the world was going to end, they took control of Project Safehouse and used it to test people. The data from the tests would be used to help make the world in their image. They did not bother saving as many Americans as they could because they saw them as corrupt.

Enclave in FO2 even though they have a president and so on, they did not come off as "American as baseball and apple pie" to me. They were people that wanted total control. They felt the world could not keep going the way it was going. Running out of resources and way to many people. So they decided to just start over. Starting over with the best of the best and pure.

They weren't planning on killing everyone, Eden was. By the end of Fallout 3 Eden effectively ceases to represent the Enclave as a whole.

And anyways I'd imagine the Enclave has non-mutated food sources, given as how they've survived in isolation for hundreds of years.

He borrowed his plan directly from President Richardson, whos plan indeed was to wipe the world clean of mutation. Eden's ideas are not new. Autumn also retains loyalty to President Eden still at the end of Fallout 3 ("Chain of command must be upheld") and the "rift" between Eden and Autumn is not a wide as people think. There are not two groups of Enclave by the end of Fallout 3.



That and FEV Curling-13 would leave plant and animal life relatively unharmed. The Enclave definetly had a plan for the aftermath of the modified virus' release. They are not stupid by any stretch of the imagination.



Nope, for reasons explained above.

Richardson's plans differed greatly from the East Coast Enclave. Autumn himself stated they wanted to seize the purifier to gain control over the Capital Wasteland; Eden wanted to seize it to wash the wasteland clean and begin anew. The human elements of the DC Enclave thought they were setting up to lord it over the wasteland, not kill everyone.

And I'd hazard to say the rift is fairly large considering as troops under Eden's and Autumn's commands are in a shooting war.

No they aren't Eden has no troops, there is no Enclave civil war, in the ending after the posioning (before Broken Steel sell-out of course) it says that humanity will survive in the form of the Enclave and no mention of fighting; after everyone is dead what would be the point. The Enclave cared nothing for the wasters, remember the extermination camps where the Enclave troopers were ordered to pack them into confined spaces to save flamer ammo; Autumn certainly didn't care about them.

In the end Autumn can't handle the pressure of the decision and takes the whole Enclave down in his idiocy; he's no hero and no symbol of a new Enclave in terms of morality.

Autumn is not the leader of the East Coast Enclave, President Eden is. He also still remains leader following Autumn's "departure" as you need to convince Autumn to abandon Eden. That suggests to me that Autumn was not in a "Civil War" with President Eden, he was more like a General Patton figure who took matters into his own hands for a bit, but would eventually be "disciplined" and all would return to normal.

My guess is that Autumn's version of using the Purifier would have turned into Eden's plan anyway, he wanted to use the purifier to get people to comply to genetic screening and to accept the Enclave, but considering that everyone in the CW is a "mutant", he would have probably ended up agreeing with Eden.