They just gonna walk through deadly, hazardous, radiated wasteland, for some possibly across the entire USA from coast to coast.... I would say chance of survival pretty slim.

One of the goals in warfare is to destroy communications. Satellites, just like cities, can be targeted for destruction. The only communications that we know is operational is short to mid range communication. Taking out communications is just as important a strategic military strategy as anything else. There could be countless reasons why communication can be disabled.

Also, if communication so great, they would know there absolutely no reason to send Ed-E to Navarro. Or is there? Communications or not, why bother? Oil rig gone, they have to assume whoever remained got wiped out or dismantled. Unless there something we do not know.

On Ed-E log 1, voice says if this picked up by ONE of our enclave OUTPOSTS(plural) in Chicago.. sounds like more than 5 guys sitting in a cave eating cram to me, and that there is more than 1 outpost there.

Yes, I believe there would be secrets. True nature of Eden to the DC forces was a secret. That is the nature of the military and government, especially one like the enclave. Propoganda, secrets, covert ops, lies, deception, are all a part of it. Nobody knows what the enclave did or who they came across on their journey east.

Finally, yes, the oil rig could have been one of many plans. You don't gamble on one or two things for victory. You don't leave safety of your fortified bunker to try and trek across the wasteland, and prolly die, when you are safe in it. If you safe from the nuclear fallout, you safe from the virus, and if oil rig plan works, eventually they can bring the vaccine to you, or if communication so awesome, send the info on how to manufacture it yourself.

I'm not saying this is all fact. I'm saying it possible, because it dumb to gather in one place. It dumb to risk survival on one thing. It dumb to travel across the wasteland if you are safe, it even dumber to make same mistake twice. And it is fact enclave was in other place before the year you said because it specifically states they spread out GLOBALLY before the bombs, so they were in other places. You just think they all came running to the oil rig for the big win, and I don't think they would, nor would it be possible for all of them to even know what going on.

Then how did they get from Navarro to DC?



Then how did the Enclave communicate with Bradley-Hercules in Broken Steel, or how did Eden, who was a Presidential Advisor contact the President, besides PoseidoNet still works, even pre-war facilities like a Poseidon Nuclear Powerstation which wasn't even under Enclave control could be used to communicate with he Oil Rig.



I put this down to maybe Navarro' loss being heavily classified for moral after all, if they felt the need to classify DEATHS before even the Oil Rig was gone (early Power Amour testing in 2220's) then lord only knows how important moral is now.



Actaully I like that, I never noticed the pluralisation before... I never thought that the Chicago outpost was just five guys, I just thought it was a bunker without a population great enough to sustain itself. Plural... I like that, well spotted old sport.



Yeah the discussion about the events between Navarro and DC, not to mention Eden have been talked discussed so many times, this is more Andronicus's area of expertise on the Enclave, I tend to stick more to justifications for their actions (not to say that I won't have this discussion, *sigh* if pressed, I do consider myself an authority on the Enclave after all). Reasons about just how the [censored] anyone could not know he was a computer for 30 years...



Well what if the facilities to manufacture are poorer there? The Enclave did manufacture so much on the Oil Rig, the Enclave trekked all the way across to DC after a titanic defeat because of "orders", why not presumably a much shorter distance to the Oil Rig. The Enclave surely run the risk of a genetic bottleneck by their very nature, it makes sense to me to have all hands on deck; don't forget that the Enclave are rather arogant, when it comes to the Rig they think that they have crossed their T's and dotted their I's by disabling the tanker and the natural defenses. Indeed the got destroyed because the Chosen One exploited a failure in the Rig's power station, not becuase they were bested militarily.



House predicted that there would be a nuclear war 15 years before hand and put his personal plans into action, RobCo eventually bought REPCONN which designed the Enclave's Plasma Rifle's especially for the pre-war Enclave, just saying if House sould be so damn accurate then surely the Enclave would be. A lot of this can be debated, I say that the Oil Rig with it's size, landing pads, manufacturing facilities and the equipment that must be aboard must have been purpose built by the Enclave, for the Enclave in the event of the war. I just think that the pre-war Enclave might have been a little more organised and eventually all made their way home to the Rig which had been planned so extensively, the Enclave weren't chumps.

I'd like to remain neutral in this debate but I will say this for the sake of defending why I think the Enclave is interesting,

The Enclave aren't interesting, in my opinion, because they have fancy stuff (although that is part of the equation). They are interesting to me because they are the Shadow Government of the United States and we know very little about their operations (especially pre-war). They have some complex goals as well. While the Legion and NCR want land and power. Factions like the Enclave and House have goals that are not that straightforward, its more intriguing.

In any case I would hope that they appear in some form in future games other than just "Remnants". They don't need to factor into a huge part of the story but I think there is more that can be done with them. We don't need to consign a great faction to oblivion just yet, I think they need more time to shine. Sure give us new factions and settings but that doesn't mean that we should never see old favorites again.

Besides, they've had alot less "screen time" than the Brotherhood of Steel (who have been in EVERY game). Seriously, Why does that lame faction deserve to be in more games than the Enclave? The Enclave is way more interesting and complex than the Brotherhood of Steel could ever hope to be.

I would say main reason they went from oil rig/navarro to DC is not only because of Eden, but because they were devastaded by the defeat and prolly in retreat. The destruction of the rig would be the time to strike at the surviving enclave. Thus, they pretty much HAVE to make the trek. They are no longer safe.

In contrast, Enclave who are in fortified bunkers, vaults, secret military bases, wouldn't have the pressing need to make a dangerous journey to reach the rig.

If the rig was a pre-war plan, it for sure would not be the only plan. Again, you don't decide your fate on one thing. So, for now, let's pretend this facility was built or seized for a plan. It would not be the only such facility they seize. If this was their plan, why were they also trying to get into space? Because they prolly had many, many, many plans, and one of the best, to increase survival rate, was to spread out. So, sure, rig may have been a plan, but it was not only plan, it just one of very few we have game experience with.

I didn't understand what you meant about Ed-E. Obviously, Ed-E is sent from AAFB with goal of reaching Navarro. Enclave who sending him already know rig destroyed, that any enclave in Navarro prolly captured or dead, so why are they sending him, carrying enclave data, only to surely be captured by enemies? Unless they know something we don't.

I also know you didn't say that about enclave in Chicago, but a lot of people assume that if enclave in Chicago they prolly only a handful of troops, and that log tells me different. I take the illinois license plate as nothing more than like how people put travel stickers on their luggage. To me it means, yes, Ed-E made contact with Chicago Enclave, and here is your clue.

Again, communication may not be totally destroyed for all. But some may be far more crippled than others. So Eden had ability to communicate, that doesn't mean Enclave in say Texas or Georgia, or Chicago had communications. Some places may have had the ability to talk to rig, others didn't, that is the randomness of nuclear war.

I generally don't believe much of what my government tells me now, so I sure as hell wouldn't believe a single thing an enclave type government would tell me. So basically the pres in fo2 could of had in front of just about anything he said.

first of all to have to wait till the very end of the game to find a legion with a marksman rifle is pretty bad, and as far as the fort? half of em have powerfists or macheties, the legion is mostly armed with melee weapons, and in a game where energy weapons and guns is so plentifull and part of the game, it makes for a weak combat and a weak faction, BOS is armed way better but they aren't anywhere on hte map except for hidden valley, ncr is poorly armed for the most part, most of em just use service rifles, but the bigger problem is there aren't any threats on the map once you're about level 15, ceasers legion and ncr hardly even patrol anywhere, they don't have that many outposts, most of ceasers legion is at the fort, thats pretty dull, in FO3 the enclave were all over the map, they even landed in vert birds, supermutants were plentiful as well as talon mercs etc, in FO3 you had to be alert a lot more and there was more of a sense of danger, new vegas is beyond easy, its funny that people complained about FO3 combat and said you were a god in FO3, which is true, there were too many skill points and perks, but obsidian made a big mistake as well, they didn't put any threatening enemies in the game except for cazedores and deathclaws, nothing else can really put much of a hurt on you unless you just let something attack you and don't try to kill it. you're like a supergod in new vegas at level 20, totally overpowered at level 20.

What the hell kind of game are you playing? The legion I'm fighting are using Trail Carbines.

for fighting em it does, well obsidian has used your logic and NOT armed the enemies very well and the fact is most people find the game way too easy and not challenging, the truth is, its not fun fighting enemies who charge at you with macheties, throw spears and generally can't inflict any damage on you, and thats the sad truth, the story of new vegas is good, lots of good quests and good dialogues but the combat aspect of the game is not there really, its actually very weak and simplistic with most enemies using pool ques, or varmit rifles, they use no tacticts at all, mostly just rush at you, and its part of the reason the game is so poorly rated, its only rated at 7.5 at gamespot and for a bethesda games thats pretty low...weak enemies, a lack of well implemented main factions, and a lack of exploration are the reason its not rated real high. FO3 is rated at 9 and oblivian is rated at 9.6 and those games are fun to play for years, new vegas is kinda dull once you're about level 15, and your character is like rambo and the terminator combined before you even reach level 20.

I'm sad to see them go (I love there hardware! Just like the Empire in SW), unfortunately unless they start to really make them the "unkillable" bad guy that pops up everywhere that you always defeat like in some cartoons, they where finished after FO2.

You've already used this score argument on someone didn't you? Argument from authority again?
And you must be kidding about the the levels or we are playing a different game. in F3 I could slaughter a Super mutant or an Enclave goon on Lvl 4 with nothing but a 10MM SMG(tested) and even the Deathclaw was nothing special thanks to the missing damage threshold mechanics. That's even more than Rambo, that's a freaking poor flick-esque John Cena grindfest.

I think we don't quite understand each other. What I meant is HOW is the faction interesting. Have you seen their mentality? logic? backstory?
Equipment and the 'shell' is nice, but certainly does not make up for the term 'interesting' alone.

Aye, that is pretty much what I was trying to say. There's more in it than the "oh look we have big batman armors with lazors". :goodjob:

Though I gotta say it's really shame how they got degraded to B-grade Power Rangers villains.

QFFT. And the Legion isn't that badly armed, most patrols I come across have Trail Carbines.

Indeed, I'm using Increased wasteland spawns, it has an option to have patrols spawn that will get into fights with other patrols. I've seen plenty of Legion vs. NCR battles. Legion usually have cowboys guns(Repeaters and carbines) they can usually beat out superior numbers of NCR with Service rifles and 10mm pistols for the most part.

Enclave, WBOS. Master Army and other remnants,

They should dissapear or only be a minor faction

They are here just for the sake of Fanservice now :flamethrower: :flamethrower: :flamethrower:

I voted no. It becomes a bad broken record if this faction continually comes up to be beaten down again. Three huge blows and they should be out.
Make up a new antagonist next time, round.


Fighting them is a gameplay aspect and does not make the faction more interesting. There's nothing more to add to this point.
You are arguing the wrong thing here. Make a thread that says New Vegas needs more leveled gear and some "random" patrols.

Also well implemented main factions? I don't really understand what you are getting at with that. They are internally logical and seem to be overall implemented better than Fallout 3 factions.

OR MAKE THEM THE NEW PROTAGONIST FOR ONCE OR AT LEST LET THEM BE JOINNABLE. I vote yes because in the fallout bible it said that in the month of march year 2077 the enclave forces RETREATED AROUND THE GLOBE and it never said that they all joined up on the oil rig and considering that they had plans to go to a different planet(it is unclear if they were able to get to a planet)so we might have more runnins with the enclave in the future and hay maby one of there bunkers started an empire already

I'd like to see one of those secret bunkers start an empire, but they don't refer to themselves as the Enclave, something else...

Those plans to inhabit another planet were abandonned in favor of repopulating the earth.

Don't beat the pinata that's been busted.

yeah what he said, those plans never happened. Sorry Enclave general. In reality the Oil rig and Navvaro where all the Enclave had. Perhaps some Vaults too.

Actaully it isn't, read the quotes of some of the Navarro Technicians and such:

{134}{}{No actually, I'm from up north.}
{135}{}{Oh... I didn't know we had an outpost up there. Anyway, the main base is off the coast of San Fran a ways.}
{137}{}{Well... How do we get there?}
{138}{}{By vertibird, of course. There's no other way, unless you have a ship. It's way too far to swim.}

This not only suggests that there are infact multiple outposts but that they may infact be large enough to be self sustaining, unless there is some other way that a young Enclave trooper doesn't even know the location of their capital. However, in the context of the Enclave appearing again I believe that all these outposts will have regrouped at Navarro, there still probably won't have been many of them and it would help account for the numbers present in Fallout 3.

If the Enclave rises again it should considered opening itself up to outsiders a bit more. Yet again that would lead to the possibility of it turning into Eastern BOS 2: Electric Boogaloo....

This also suggests, surprise surprise, that enclave don't know everything about their other outposts "I didn't know we had an outpost up there". Nice.

Well in all fairness it's because the outpost didn't exist, but the technicians willingness to believe it must of course be noted.

I think we basically agree that, again, unless there a lot of things we don't know, Enclave will be in future games, but probably no larger than the mojave bos crew.

One exception to that could be Chicago. Regardless, because of their tech, they could always be a dangerous group to run across. Hopefully in future games we will also get to explore some of their abandoned facilities and learn more of their lore.

We can all drink to that! :foodndrink:

I'll have a nuka cola with that