Oh guess i misread that dossier i thought it said it would be acceptable or something my bad :icecream:
so they dont want nobody to win the civil war? :blink:

Hey, we're all modern men here. He's wearing a lot of leather. And he is so commanding. I'm not entirely unmoved myself ..

They don't want either side to win decisively.

Wouldn't it be more correct (albeit somewhat flawed) to compare the Nords to the Americans, and the Imperials to the English? (in reference to the OPs Native American statement) The Americans of today are not the indigenous people of America, as we all should know. And neither are the Nords indigenous to Skyrim. However, I find it somewhat difficult to understand as to why so many people side with the Imperials over the Stormcloaks. The main reason being because they consider the Stormcloaks to be racist? Yes, 'some' of them are racist, and some of them might not have their heart in the right place... but would you have sided with the English during the American Revolutionary War?

They have a good cause; but their rebellion is foolish, they take it too far and many of the recruits and high ranking officials, including Ulfric, are xenophobes.

Their cause is just, in that no one who has faith in the Divines should be bending a knee to the Thalmor and their damnned Condordant. However, killing their own High King over it? Using dishonorable tactics at that? Ulfric is no true Nord. He is barely competent as a general, and got to his position through trickery and backbiting. I hold no love of the Empire under Aldmeri rule, but all Ulfric Stormcloak's rebellion is doing is making the situation much, much worse. If I actually lived in Tamriel in this time period, there is no way in Oblivion I would follow that man. I might not join the Legion, either, but I would have a much better chance of sticking it to the real threat of Tamriel, the Thalmor, by being within their ranks.

The Empire only signed that treaty to end the Great War and save lives. They even turned a blind eye to Talos worship, which was made illegal in the treatise, but I suppose that wasn't good enough for Ulfric. His hot headed ways got the better of him, and it is only because of his rebellion that the Thalmor's Justicars were sent into Skyrim along with the Imperial Legion to settle things down. Now, because of the Stormcloaks, innocent people are being taken captive, or executed simply for worshiping their patron deity, in addition to weakening Skyrim, and the Empire, as a whole as they continue this pointless civil war.

And because of all this extremely well put together political issue, where we all can debate fiercely over who is good and who is bad without anyone being truly right or wrong is one of the many, many reasons I am loving this game. There was nothing in the story of Oblivion that could spark this much debate except for maybe arguments over how terrible it was

They certainly are racist and Ulfric's Windhelm is the prime example that the ideology comes from the head himself, not just some small-time bigot jarl. Not to mention that their misguided cause of Talos as divinity to undermine all Tiber Septim fought for (the man's ascension is only because he vanquished Nord & Breton armies to annex Skyrim for Empire, how ironic is that?) during his life comes off pretty much like today's fundamentalists who use their own interpretation of religion to bring misery to others.

Who cares really is a video game what a pointless thread.

I wouldve joined their cause if I didnt first see the slum they kept my people the Drumner in. No thanks!

:D

Where did the guy you quoted mention he was talking about the USA? Nowhere, and it doesn't say in his profile whether he's living in the USA either. Apply his story to the European countries and it's an exact match as well, and your argument is invalidated. The guy was right, whenever any whites are racist (or patriotic or nationalistic) they are called racists, whenever any non-whites are racist, patriotic or nationalistic, then they have a 'strong feeling for identity' (or it's excused as the consequence of racism from whites). It is a double standard.

(Before I'm being called racist myself, I must note that this double standard is being supported by the majority of white people themselves, I'm not blaming any "race" here)

Why is this relevant to the thread? Because it seems to apply to the Nords in this thread as well. Almost all races in Tamriel could be described as racist, yet for example the Dunmer in Windhelm are being victimized, despite them having enslaved Argonians for centuries and now them getting what was coming to them.

Have you not seen how the Dark elves live in Windhelm? I think the only reason non-nord races are allowed to join the Storm Cloaks is solely due to the fact some people wouldn't like having to play a nord just to join them.

To be honest, your argument of only refering to one of my points is quite unfounded. Actually what you refering to was just part of a point I mentioned.

Windhelm is not really that big and as far as I can see every other houses have been occupied by the original Nord citizens of Windhelm already. There doesn't seem to be any vacant housings and the only one left is the one for the dragonborn.

And to rightfully own that house, the dragonborn has to do lots of favors for different characters in Windhelm. And after all these feats, the dragonborn still has to pay a dear sum of septim to get it.
I doubt any of the dark elves living in the gray quarter is willing to, or is able to do all these favors and pay the money to get the house.

So do you think when the dark elves escaped from their volcano in Morrowind and went to Windhelm, the original citizens of Windhelm should just give them their own houses, and went to the slums themselves?

People that hate the Falmor are stupid IMO, they are the pinnacle of what an Altmer should be, none of this merchant or teacher rubbish.

I think he meant take a zoolander left

It's not even a matter of opinion, its a fact. Go to Windhelm and talk to anybody.

I voted that they are racists, even though I shouldn't have because I still don't know enough of them. I haven't joined Stormcloaks nor the Imperials so far, so only some books and talk in-game is all I know. But I don't think even visiting to the High King's widow's court gave me enough neutral information about to topic. There's just some twists there I hadn't seen anywhere yet. Have to be.

I just hope there was an intermediate... A faction that wanted to drive the conquerors away, BUT without taking it over the top and wanting EVERYONE but Nords out of there! I think there could be this kind of a more conservative faction, possibly inside the Stormcloaks, and that's something I would join as a Nord someday.

Or maybe I just play a blind savage with his two axes who just likes to swing those at any non-Nords. -.- I'd like to give it more thought, though.

edit: neural information -> neutral information...

I don't see no Kahjeets nor argonians in the legion... Besides, stormcloaks allow elfs in their cities, and the working type can afford a good living. Imperials, on the other hand, are pretty much corrupt, not to say weak. Kahjeets are also not allowed in any city under imperial control.

The choice is: Skyrim under imperial rule or Skyrim under stormcloak rule. And when I think about how The Empire is weakened and subsidiary to the Thalmor, I go for the Stormcloaks.

I think each province should be free to chose how they want to ve governed, the empire has no rightful claim over all Tamriel, much less with a Mede where a Septim should be, nor does the Dominion.

Our minds think alike! I was the only one thinking about comparing this to the American independence. Stormcloaks as the colonists and the Imperials as the English. The only thing I don't like about the stormcloaks is their voice. Imperials just sound more appeasing to me.

They certainly seem to have a pretty racist agenda, with maybe a few individual exceptions. Given most of the area's history, I don't find that surprising.

it's tough. they want their land to be their tradition primarily, but a lot of their followers use that as an excuse for their racism.

An imperial called me a filthy nord.

Racist or not, I decided to side with the Stormcloaks. The Thalmor are the real bad guys, they want to kill anyone who worships Talos. And the Imperials signed the White-Gold Concordat which bans the worship of Talos, so screw them as well.

I think theyre nationalists.

Yeah, it's a fine line though.

Correction: The Thalmor wants to kill all of mankind.
The Stormcloaks may have their flaws, but they are the only viable option.
The Empire is dead. They've lost Black March, Elsweys, Morrowind, Summerset Isle, Valenwood and Hammerfell. They are down to just Cyrodiil and Skyrim.
Cyrodiil is in such a poor state, all the Empire can do for Skyrim is siphon out it's resources and manpower. Skyrim alone is far stronger than the Empire, because it would be able to concentrate it's strength in one place, rather than being stretched too thin.

Racist? Most definitely. They treat other races like crap, especially Elves and beast races.

But I don't think they're intentionally doing it. They're just being suspicious about foreigners in their lands. Foreigners they never had a choice to deny. Just like in Morrowind where there was a foreigner quarter in Vivec, and the fact that all the Dunmer hated outlanders. The only reason the Dunmer didn't treat us worse than the Nords treat foreigners is because the Dunmer had to listen to the Empire. Since the Nords are rebelling, they can do what they want. They want Skyrim for the Nords, and everyone else can have the shaft. Which makes sense. I support it.