People don't think the Empire must be evil because of the stereotype, the problem is that the Empire is not anymore what it was in the time of the Septim dynasty. I lean to the Stormcloak side, while in the time before the Oblivion Crisis I would have sided with the Empire 100%.



No it isn't. That's 'normal' nationalist, not ultra-nationalist. Nowadays almost everything right wing is called "extreme" or "ultra", because in these times being cosmopolitan is considered to be the middle ground.

All I politcally can think of is legalizing the worship of Talos, let the nords semi-independently rule their lands, but still be part of the Empire. If the rebels would be victorious the Thalmor would almost instantly try taking control of their land.

The problem in the war is the rebellion now that I think about it. Though, if the empire would put in more resources. Suddenly I feel bad for joining the stormcloaks hah xD

It's not like Skyrim got invaded a year ago and fighting to stay independent. It's closer to Texas renouncing the USA and fighting American troops to declare independence in 2011, (throw in a made up reason like US gobbled our petroleum etc as Talos worship is just Ulfric's agitation for the throne, never was a practical problem in effect) hundreds of years after they accepted US rule. And I guess practically every non-Texan and many Texans as well would fight for continued US rule instead of Texan independence.

I would remind that even after Nero and Caligula, Rome had its best and most civil days with emperors like Trajan, Hadrian and Marcus Aurelius. Who's to say it won't recover better than ever? If anything, this whole "dragonborn returning" business should make people consider if the PC is ultimately destined to be the new founder of a new dynasty. There always was an Empire, even before Septim line. My 5 bucks is on it recovering with a fifth era.

Not really normal nationalist when you consider the obvious racism policies going along with it. Everything points out to Ulfric designing his kind of 'Lebensraum' and his supporters happily going along with it. Just talk to all his people in Windhelm. There's one Nord that speaks out against racism in the city and he's made Jarl by the Empire if you kill Ulfric. That must be telling something.

They're already autonomous with their high king and jarls, Talos worship business is a temporary setback if anything. Why would the Empire keep using the currency Septims with his head on it and with Dragon emblems everywhere if it was sincere in stamping out anything belonging to him or his line?

Kingsword, you've made the most logical argument so far, and i agree completely

This entire thread is a testament to how well this storyline was written.

haha true. i don't see call of duty players arguing like this

Then colonization takes away from people the right of self determination as a culture? You must not forger, aswell, that Texas hasn't got the same cultural and historical differences that set appart Skyrim from the empire, It's closer to South America seceding from Spain or North America from England, that can not be argued.



So they're forced to take what the new Empire offers them without hesitation in the hopes of a better future? They must step aside and watch how their culture is traded by other people so they can save what's considered important for them? I think not, every man has the right of making his voice heard, lethargy is never good in politics.

a lot of their members (most of them) are racist and the ones that arent just dont care, but i can forgive them for hating outsiders. elves are killing people for worshiping talos, that will not help the nords with their hate and distrust of other races at all, not to mention most of the storm cloaks are form skyrim and have not seen that many other races, its easy to believe a stereotype (khajiit are thieves, argonians are assasin, dunmer are horrible people, and other bad stereotypes) if you have never met anything to disprove it

What I really think, whough, is that both sides have reasons to fight, and none is morealy above the other. It's been beutiflly threaded, something unheard of since Vivec having killed (or not) the nerevarine.

This kind of poll again. >.>

It can be argued.. because The Empire started in skyrim, and all humans (except for redguard) came from Skyrim - they just changed into the imperials over the ages, presumably due to climate (bretons are humans with elf-blood) Just because different provinces have developed pretty differently doesn't mean that they all didn't originate from the same place. Tiber Septim AKA Talos was a Nord, and lead Nord armies.


Nothing about their culture is being 'traded' or stomped on - other than Talos worship, which is a huge part of the Empire's culture, too. The problem with the stormcloaks is they don't think "every man has the right to make his voice heard" but instead "every man has the right to support me, or die" - Ulfric says it himself : "They are either with us, or against us"

People keep mistakenly adding democratic overtones to the Stormcloaks, when they're anything but, simply because they go on about 'freedom'. Remember, Ulfric is taking the crown by force - he dueled the last king using dubious methods, and refuses to accept the traditional method for electing a High King - a moot of jarls, because many jarls consider his act of, or method of, killing the king to be foul (using a Shout). As such, Ulfric knows he won't win an election, so he's taking it by force. Ulfric will not accept, or allow, anyone who dissents against his crowning as High King to remain in power, or live.

The Empire didn't deny them their culture or anything. If it was so, whole Skyrim wouldn't be this much different from Cyrodiil. Many provinces held its own set of special rights anyway like Skyrim, so it's nothing like Britain with American colonies. If anything, Skyrim benefited as much being in the Empire as Empire having them in. And you see Nords admitting that in the game. There's no consensus among Nords that they should secede, on the contrary, many are fighting for the Empire. Tell me how many American colonists fought for Britain in 1776.

Talos worship ban was a sham, in my country there's a law that enforces everybody to wear hats from 1930's! And guess what happens? Nothing. If somebody was to come out and try to bring together a force of rebels just due to that, doubt anyone would pay attention.

What I would understand is that if Nords pressed the Empire for a renewed war ASAP or to break the treaty, now that's making your voice heard. When you take up arms however, the kindest thing you'd be called is a terrorist in today's world. Rebels in Tamriel. Not freedom fighters, unless you're being supported by third parties which has an interest in "divide & conquer" like Thalmor.

They're not 'racist', they're just protecting their ancestral land, the land where all men began according to lore, in the same way the High Elves would get angry if Summerset Isle became a 'come one and come all' fest for every race in Tamriel. That said, I think Ulfric is a coward and a murderor, although it is a much more brutal frame of life for people in Skyrim, it still doesn't excuse just walking up to the High King and killing him without warning.

You must not forget, though, that the Septim Empire ended up with the Oblivion crisis, and the new one can't simply be heir to It's legitimacy by right. The proof lies in the already ongoing secesion of other provinces: you may not like the Stormcloaks, but you can neglect the fact that their claim is as legitamate as the Empire's, if not more.



It's a war, he's simply making clear that he's gonna fight till the end, for he believes in what hes pursuing. Does the Empire or the Thalmor act otherwise, aside from the particularities of each case? It's been proven through the game that the Stormcloaks are not bloodlusty savages, and that they respect their enemies in defeat.

well said if anything there just a radical regime not a true rebellion in all my questioning i never said all nords are racist most of them tend to think the storm cloaks are troublemakers hence why stormcloaks control such little territory in general it seems stupid for ulfric to choose now of all times when the empire the one thing between skyrim and a thalmor boot in the ass is trying to maintain peace until they can rebuild strength not commit more lives while the thalmor rebuild not to mention the need to regain hammerfells trust or at least reach out to the argonians in general war is a bad thing for humans right now

The stormcloaks come off as the Scottish fighting the English for their freedom. I made my guy look like Mel Gibson in the Movie Braveheart, even has the painbted fave

I simply adore those who point out that a duel Ulfric cheated in (he brought a revolver to a knife fight) is totally legitimate just because it's in their tradition when it's regarded as archaic at best even by Nords themselves. Not to mention totally stupid in itself if I may be blunt. But some people simply are okay with all the non-sense just because "it's viking stuff so it's cool". I believe that Bethesda had to portray them as proto-Nazis so that 99% of the players wouldn't choose Stormcloak route. Even now many people turn a blind eye to practically the second most evil organization in the game after Thalmor.

I love Sovngarde and stuff as the next history buff but when I played through the game, I was surprised to see that Stormcloaks were attributed with like 5 negative things for every 1 negative thing for the Empire. I'm not complaining about that though because Bethesda foresaw it'd be cool to be "freedom fighting vikings toppling an Empire" (vikings plundered, killed and enslaved the ancestors of most of the playerbase, how ironic is that) rather than "crumbling Roman Empire in 375 AD" so they had to present it like this. Even then, it's not enough for most.

yes they are, and its why i like them, but stil joined imperials because stormcloak leader is stupid, not to mention long term survival means empire must succeed.

The only reason I joined the legion was because they were not racist like the Stormcloaks.

That statement is not only biased but also irrespectful. Maybe you should strive to enjoy the many tones of grey you can find.

Both are equally bad though. And wanting skyrim just for themselves and kicking out everyone else DOES make them racist. Even if some are not racist they are backing people who are which doesn't make them any better

This. Of course, if an independant path means disrupting both the Stormcloak and Imperial power bases, then that would leave Skyrim and Tamriel wide open for the Dominion, right?

I usually choose the lesser evil, which is the Empire, IMO.

Men came from another Continent. it was called Atmora, they moved in with elves in skyrim, then elves drove them out, then Ysgramir came back from cyrodiil with 500 pissed off nords and took it back

Since when do the stormcloaks want to kick everyone else out?

i put ithat they are racists..................but u gotta also understand that u go into the elf homeland they are completely rasists against nords. So basically if ur new to the series, ur thinking Uldric and company are being pricks but if u been playing for a hot min its more or less the shoes on the other foot situation. So yes they racists but hey the people they are being racist against are also very racists against the nords in thier HOMELAND.

also as far as which sides im on.....Uldric not because i support him but because as a Nord i see the Empire becoming very weak compared to the glory days and why as a Nord should i follow something weak when the opertunity to build soemthing bigger/stronger is right in front of my eyes?