Not a fair question. How the hell do you define a race or a group of people is racist to the other?

Do you take a vote and see what the "majority" think?
Does the leader of the group, the representative of the crowd, define how racist they are?


I'm pretty damn sure the Imperial conquered Skyrim centuries ago, are they the "rightful" owner of Skyrim then?

now thats somthing to think about i forgot about the forsworn damn ulfric is quite the hyporcrite no? what he feels the empire and the thalmor are doing to them the storm cloack did to the forsworn

THOSE people don't know anything about their own country.



That's pretty racist dude (your rant).

Yeah there are books around that make Ulfric seem like a bit of a dike, like the way he pretty much wiped out anyone that didn't fight for him in Markarth; Nord or not.

If you follow him it kinda needs to be for his ideals and not for the man himself.


No it's not. It's not eloquently put, but in some ways it's true.

People seem to confuse racism with any argument featuring the words 'black' or 'white'.

The moral of the story depends on the person who tells it.

There's nothing in the world that's truly objective, not even the books in skyrim.

There seem to be a lot of people projecting in this thread; either that, or I've yet to encounter the Chinese, Indian or Mexican communities of Skyrim. Perhaps we could end the civil war if only Tullius and Ulfric would sit down and share some tikka masala?

I've read (but not encountered myself, as of yet) reports that Ulfric has declined to protect Argonian traders traveling near Windhelm, whilst using his forces to protect Nordic traders. If this is correct, then that's a fairly serious indictment. If he refuses to grant legal protection to non-Nordic/non-mannish people, that's pretty hard to support.

My feelings also. I found i didn`t want to side with either side.
The stormcloaks prejudice and imperials arrogance turned me against them all early in the game.

It's not racist and it's probably true to some extend.

It's just not politically correct to say that.

Regardless of whether they're racists, they're bonafide idiots. They want the Thalmor to win the war, which is why they started their coup. This is a fact.

I think they may be not racists... but just fools. We Dunmer landed on Skyrim not for will, but for temporal neccesity and some of us are wanting to return home to kick the salamander-faces asses out of Morrowind.
You cant compare the stormcloacks to a really organized group, they′re just a pack of barbarians full of ale who finded they perfect excuse to sheed blood, screw them.
As Dunmer I′ll stand aside the Legion.
PS: Argonians and Kajiit are made to be slaves, they like it, like the pets like to be pets.

Congratulations you have no idea what the word racism means.

There's a difference. The Jarl of Reach PAYED him to drive out the Forsworn, who had butchered their way into Markarth. He, and all his people, were promised free reign to worship Talos, something they had wanted.

When he accomplished that, and drove out the people who had SLAUGHTERED their way into the city, he was arrested. Not because he drove the Forsworn out, but because he was promised something that he couldn't receive.

The Stormcloaks are trying to rid themselves of the Thalmor, which can only be accomplished by leaving the Empire, so the White-Gold Concordant no longer applies. The reason why? Talos worship being banned, racial purgings (that's right, they're trying to stop the Thalmor from killing OTHER races besides Nords in Skyrim), etc.

They're getting off their asses and trying to actively save themselves from the Thalmor, by driving out the Empire which makes them perfectly allowed to be there. The Empire is biding it's time to strike when the iron is hot, but Skyrim is losing WAY more people every day they wait than any other province. Hammerfell showed that the Thalmor can be bested by a single province, and that's what the Stormcloaks intend to do.

Nowhere in their goals is racism involved. In fact, they're probably a bit anti-racist, in that they're driving out the Thalmor as quickly as possible. The Thalmor are, essentially, the Nazi party of TES. They butcher people for their beliefs, have an extreme supremacy complex, purge other races, and commit other atrocities.

No, its not. Read the dossier again.

It is racist, because it predisposes the US to be a "white" country, despite having not only been forcibly taken from its indigenous population, not only having exploited nonwhite slave labour, but also having been built upon the efforts of both European and non European descended people. So, sure, they contributed - but it's not "their" country? That's reprehensible.

It's not projecting, it's an attempt at providing an anologous situation, about which people hold a similar double standard of racism. Nobody has tried to hide that IIRC.

The Nords have a long running hatred of the elves and vice versa, they've always been enemies since the Nords first arrived. It makes perfect sense for them to dislike each other.

How about we start a thread about how the Dunmer in Windhelm are racist because they don't like Nords? I mean, not all Nords are treating them badly, but I bet they think of all Nords the same way. Prejudice is prejudice is prejudice..


That is a weak argument for racism. You see the point but instead of refuting it you decide to latch on to an oversight.

Okay, sure. Academically, the difference between prejudice and racism is institutionalized power. The Nords, as a majority population and ruling class, have it. The Dunmer, as a minority refugee group, do not. Hence, they may be prejudiced, but as they lack the power (as a social class) to prevent Nords from moving upward and improving their station.

Is their prejudice equal? Sure. Is it wrong? Absolutely. Does it carry the same level of consequence? No.

He allows the argonians to travel freely, just not granting them much protection.

The problem is, in modern terms, whether the argonians are east march citizens or not. If they pay their taxes or everything like every other nords in east march, then they should be subjected to protection from Ulfric. However, if they are not, then I don't see why Ulfric should be bothered to protect them. It's not like anyone forced them to go to east march and I don't think they are backed by their own country. The resources for Ulfric is few as it is given there's a war going on.

If in medieval terms, I don't see the need for Ulfric to protect the argonians even more so. In medieval times when there's no such thing called citizenship, people are more than often grouped by they races or families. People join the army to protect their families and people, not some passing by refugees or travellers. And funds are almost always raised by the nobles from their fiefs.
The lord has to care for his subjects, but if the argonians neither works for him or pays him tax, why should he protect them?

No. I don't believe they are racist as a whole, and here's why.

Racism is the belief that it's okay to discriminate against other races because of inherent different traits.
The reason can be because a group feels they are superior, maybe its because they see another group as
inferior, or maybe another reason all together.

The Nords see their lives and birthright taken from them. They don't have a superiority or racist complex,
they just have really bad blood with anyone they believe will try to steal away their land and home (regardless
if it was theirs initially or not).

It's an issue of pride, patriotism, and conquest. And that's what the Nords have always been best known for.
They aren't racist, they're just really, really selfish people sometimes.

Which in no way establishes whether the Nordic trader is a "citizen" of Eastmarch. Given that Eastmarch seems to have a larger Argonian population that any other hold (excluding, perhaps, the Rift), surely it would be statistically more likely that the Argonian pays taxes to Windhelm than the Nord, who could just as likely be paying to another Jarl?

There are 2 amazing books! " the great war" and " the war of the red diamond" (I think )

a stormcloak called me a lizard yesterday :sadvaultboy:
being a Argonian i take offence to that remark :toughninja:

Bastards! They called me a Cat!

the book called scourge of the gray quater references the fact that argonians work their butts off and are assimilating into nordic society properly but the dunmer are not and are ungratful becuase of it way i see it is hes a racist the argonians are forced to the docks and work hard yet recieve even less decent treatment then the dunmer how is that not racist? a typical nord may have a decent gripe with a dark elf over their ancestors but what about the argonians once again i say if the stormcloack regime isnt somewhat racist then what did the argonians do wrong the khajitts i can kinda see why due to the all cats are thieves stereotypes but what did the argonians do? how do these elves recieve the slums of the city while the lizards get the docks? someone explain this to me it just doesnt make sense :intergalactic:

Perhaps the Jarls of Windhelm have been trying to prevent a race war between the Argonians and Dunmer in the streets of the city?

It's fine to Ulfric already as long as that Nord is not one of the empire supporters. It's more likely that the Nord traders are subjects of his ally jarls, which I see no difference to his own subjects.

Also, it's obvious that the argonians are doing nothing to contribute the war efforts. Just like the battle-borns said, "we all have to choose a side." This makes it clear that they are not ulfric's people.

You may say the empire still seems to protect the argonians. But remember, Black Marsh is now a client state of the Dominion and the Empire is at peace with it. It's likely that the Empire has to provide protection to the subjects of the Dominion as well.

Empire is probably similar to late-Qing China. At that period the citizens of the western countries can roam the land of China freely and do almost anything they want(they have diplomatic immunity in China so any crime they commit are not subject to the legal system of Qing dynasty, and while tried in their own countries they usually receive little or no punishments).
While they are still subject to the protection of Chinese government.
Pretty much like the Empire and thalmor.